Good Friday?

[prodromos]

I know what a synechdote is, but Jesus' words are LITERAL.

Unless, apparently, when He says "on the third day"?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Unless, apparently, when He says "on the third day"?

They need it to be exactly 72 hrs Podromos...SOOOOOOOOOOOOO...He said "3 days an 3 nights"....but what He "really" meant to say was "3 nights and 3 days"... ;-)

 

[ViaCrucis]

From Friday to Sunday is less than 3 days & 3 nights, no matter what hour one begins Friday & Sunday with.

"Good Friday" is just a man-made, non-valid observance.

Read the account of the disciples on the road to Emmaus. It's pretty clear that Christ was crucified on the day we moderns call Friday, and was raised from the dead on the day we call Sunday. It's what the Evangelist writes, it's what Christians have always believed.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

I know what a synechdote is, but Jesus' words are LITERAL.

Then the Gospel accounts are untrustworthy. Because they are pretty clear. The first day of the week (Sunday) was the third day since "these things", i.e. Christ's passion and death, happened.

Day 1 - When these things happened. Friday.
Day 2 - When Christ was in the tomb. Saturday.
Day 3 - When Christ rose from the dead. Sunday.

Complain all you want--but Scripture says what it says. If I were to believe you then I either have to believe Jesus was lying or the Evangelists were lying, because if you are correct than one of the two is lying.

But if the historic understanding is correct, then both Jesus and the Evangelists are telling the truth.

So color me biased, but I'm going to go with the option that doesn't require me to call God a liar.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[robycop3]

Then the Gospel accounts are untrustworthy. Because they are pretty clear. The first day of the week (Sunday) was the third day since "these things", i.e. Christ's passion and death, happened.

Day 1 - When these things happened. Friday.
Day 2 - When Christ was in the tomb. Saturday.
Day 3 - When Christ rose from the dead. Sunday.

Complain all you want--but Scripture says what it says. If I were to believe you then I either have to believe Jesus was lying or the Evangelists were lying, because if you are correct than one of the two is lying.

But if the historic understanding is correct, then both Jesus and the Evangelists are telling the truth.

So color me biased, but I'm going to go with the option that doesn't require me to call God a liar.

-CryptoLutheran

Again - simply no way to get 3 days & 3 nights outta Friday to Sunday. And please check the dates for when passover began, to see Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, 27 AD.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Again - simply no way to get 3 days & 3 nights outta Friday to Sunday. And please check the dates for when passover began, to see Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, 27 AD.

Yet here you say it was in 28 AD...

"Jesus was likely crucified in 28 AD, as shown by checking on the year of His birth. We know Herod The Great died in 4 BC, and Jesus was likely 2 years old then, and Quirinius was still the de-facto governor of Syria & Judea then. So, that easily places His crucifixion year as 28 AD. And in that year, passover began on WEDNESDAY, Apr. 28 on our calendar. It began at sunset Tuesday, and Jesus ate the paschal lamb that eve after sunset. He was crucified the next day, & died before sunset that day. Thus, His resurrection on saturday before sunset takes in 3 nights and most of 3 days, His resurrection occurring on that 3rd day."

So did they sacrifice a lamb in the Temple especially for Jesus a day before everyone else??? So when was he crucified, on the 14th or 15th?

 

[robycop3]

Yet here you say it was in 28 AD...

"Jesus was likely crucified in 28 AD, as shown by checking on the year of His birth. We know Herod The Great died in 4 BC, and Jesus was likely 2 years old then, and Quirinius was still the de-facto governor of Syria & Judea then. So, that easily places His crucifixion year as 28 AD. And in that year, passover began on WEDNESDAY, Apr. 28 on our calendar. It began at sunset Tuesday, and Jesus ate the paschal lamb that eve after sunset. He was crucified the next day, & died before sunset that day. Thus, His resurrection on saturday before sunset takes in 3 nights and most of 3 days, His resurrection occurring on that 3rd day."

So did they sacrifice a lamb in the Temple especially for Jesus a day before everyone else??? So when was he crucified, on the 14th or 15th?

Sorry; I was a year off-typo.

The 14th(Wednesday by our calendar & current names of days) began at sunset Tuesday the 13th. After sunset, Jesus & His disciples, & all other Jews ate their paschal lambs. All the events of Jesus' "passion", including His death & entombment, occurred before sunset Wednesday. This fits Scripture quite well, as the following Thursday was a "High Sabbath", the first "Holy Congregation" of passover. That's why the Jews wanted the bodies off the crosses before sunset Wednesday.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Sorry; I was a year off-typo.

The 14th(Wednesday by our calendar & current names of days) began at sunset Tuesday the 13th. After sunset, Jesus & His disciples, & all other Jews ate their paschal lambs. All the events of Jesus' "passion", including His death & entombment, occurred before sunset Wednesday. This fits Scripture quite well, as the following Thursday was a "High Sabbath", the first "Holy Congregation" of passover. That's why the Jews wanted the bodies off the crosses before sunset Wednesday.

Nope. The lambs were killed on the 14th.

 

[FireDragon76]

A lot of people make the mistake of thinking it's three 24 hour periods, but they conveniently forget that the Jews calculated days differently. When it says three days it means days in the Jewish sense. A new day began at sundown.

Romans would count every single day as well. I remember that from my Latin class.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Again - simply no way to get 3 days & 3 nights outta Friday to Sunday. And please check the dates for when passover began, to see Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, 27 AD.

Note that Scripture says that Jesus was "about thirty" when He began His ministry. That's ambiguity. We also don't know how long Jesus' ministry lasted. Many will point to there being three Passovers mentioned in John's Gospel as evidence of a three year ministry, but that is ultimately just speculation.

We don't know the precise year of Christ's birth.
We don't know the precise year age Christ was when He began His ministry.
We don't know how precisely how long His ministry lasted.

There are pieces of historical information that can help narrow things down:

The Lord was born while Herod the Great was still alive, Herod's death was in 4 BC.
The Lord suffered under Pontius Pilate who was prefect of Judea from between about 26 AD to 36 AD.

The Synoptics all state that Jesus celebrated the Passover on the night He was betrayed. John, on the other handThe Passover meal always happens on Nisan 14th on the Jewish Calendar. As such Jesus was crucified the day after the Passover meal.

And finally, John calls the day Jesus was crucified the "the preparation day", that is, the day of preparation before the Sabbath. Of course that means Jesus had to be crucified on a Friday, because that's explicitly what the texts state. Jesus was not crucified the eve of the Passover, as the Gospels say Jesus celebrated the Passover with His disciples the night He was betrayed, His Last Supper.

So we don't know how old Jesus exactly was when He began His ministry, except that He was "around thirty" years old; and we don't know precisely how long His ministry lasted, except that it was no fewer than three years as John records no fewer than three Passovers during His ministry.

So if we wanted to make an educated guess about the year Christ was crucified, we know that it was on the day after the Passover, before the Sabbath, sometime during Pilate's tenure as prefect of Judea.

If this website's data is to be regarded as trustworthy, that gives us either 27 or 30 AD. Problematic, of course is your attempt to make Jesus crucified on Wednesday of 27 AD, something not possible seeing as we have seen there are two important things here: Jesus was crucified the day after the Passover Seder (the meal having been eaten after dusk on the first day of Passover) and on the day of preparation for the Sabbath.

Your theory doesn't work with the historical and biblical data. Your argument is simply impossible.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[robycop3]

Again, several people are thrown off-course by the mention of a "Sabbath". Remember that, in the original passover instructions, God commanded that two "Holy Convocations" were to be held on the 1st & 7th days. (Ex. 12:16) By the time of Jesus, the Jews had begun calling all special feast days "High Sabbaths", whether they fell on the regular weekly Sabbath or not. The same rules for Sabbath applied, plus the rules for that special occasion. The day following the paschal lamb meal was the "preparation day" for the coming High Sabbath day.

There's nothing in Luke 24 suggesting anything else. Apparently, it was Sunday, & Jesus had, of course, already risen. That was made plain in other Scriptures. Seems He rose the previous Saturday, just before sunset.

Point is, a "High Sabbath" could fall on any day of the week.

 

[prodromos]

By the time of Jesus, the Jews had begun calling all special feast days "High Sabbaths", whether they fell on the regular weekly Sabbath or not.

Citation needed

 

[miamited]

.
● Matt 12:40 . . For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Some years ago a skeptic asked me how to get three days and three nights between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning. It was an embarrassing moment.

Well; Passover and Easter Sunday are just around the corner. So . . . .
_

Hi webershome,

There is nothing in the Scriptures concerning what day it was on which Jesus was crucified except a mention of a Sabbath. John records it as a 'special' Sabbath. This would infer that it was not the regular 7th day Sabbath of the 10 commandment law.

Throughout the law, given unto Moses, there are a number of Sabbaths that are commanded by God for His people to observe. So, the mere mention of an upcoming Sabbath doesn't necessarily intend the regular seventh day Sabbath. As far as I am aware, the entire issue of 'Good Friday' is predicated on this 'fact' that the Sabbath mentioned in the crucifixion account is the regular seventh day Sabbath. If we allow that it wasn't, then there are other days of the week on which Jesus could have been nailed to that cross that would allow for a regular understanding of Jesus' reference to Jonah and the big fish.

In fact, around the time of the Passover, there are a couple of 'special' Sabbaths called for in God's law that would have been observed. They are the first and seventh day of the Passover. Many believe that the Sabbath that John is referring to is the Sabbath commanded to begin the Feast of unleavened bread. If we allow that the timeline of Jesus' death is foretold in the actual observance of the Sabbath, according to the law, then Jesus would have been crucified before the actual observance of that first day Passover Sabbath. Therefore, it may well have been this 'special' first day of Passover Sabbath that prompted the Jews to call for Jesus' body to be removed quickly.

It's possible that there were two Sabbaths back to back in that year. The first day Passover Sabbath could well have been on Friday, as we now account the days of the week. Then immediately following that Passover Sabbath on Friday there would have been the regular seventh day Sabbath to follow on Saturday. Of course, it must be noted that Sabbaths began at sundown and so the Passover Sabbath would have begun at evening on Friday and then the regular Sabbath would immediately follow from the evening of Saturday. This would explain why Mary was going to the tomb very early 'on the first day of the week'. Two Sabbaths, back to back, had passed which would not have legally allowed the women to attend to Jesus' body prior to that first day of the week.

The account reads that when the Jews asked that the bodies be removed, that they explained that 'the next day' was a Sabbath. This could mean that Jesus actually died on the 'day' before the Friday Sabbath was to begin and could well mean Thursday, as we account the days of the week.

However, in all of this, what I am absolutely sure of is that God's word is true. No matter how we think to work out the days surrounding Jesus' crucifixion, Jesus was in the tomb for three days and three nights just as he said that he would be. However, let it be known that the idea of 'Good Friday' is not a Scriptural teaching. The observance of that day as somehow special to the crucifixion account is something begun well after the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord.

Some theologians pin its beginnings around the 4th century A.D. That's about 300-350 years after the deaths of all of the first apostles. If the Scriptures teach us nothing more about the nature of man, I think it's clear that in that span of time, a lot of things can be twisted about our thinking and understanding of God.

Some evidence points to the days of the week even having names didn't begin until a couple of hundred years after Jesus' ascended to the right hand of the Majesty. It is believed that at the time that Jesus walked among us, the days were merely numbered first through seventh. This numbering always relying on the last Sabbath. Thus, the first day of the week would have been the day after the seventh day Sabbath. Then the second through sixth days would have followed in order until the next seventh day Sabbath. There wasn't any need to keep account of days and years as we do today.

People didn't have monthly bills to be paid. They generally didn't schedule events weeks or months out as we do today. The idea of dating each day by month, day and year, as we do every day on dozens of documents each day today, would have been foreign to them. Their news reports didn't come with a banner proclaiming the day, month and year of a particular news report. I believe that this concept is something that is so ingrained in our culture and methodology today, that it's actually hard for us to comprehend how days were accounted 2,000 years ago.

Today, we have gone back and counted the time before numbering years began, and given a number to those years. However, as those years actually passed in reality, if there was any accounting for 'when' a particular time was assigned to an event, it would have been tied to the rule of a leader for which all people would have a knowledge of. Again, this idea of time keeping is very foreign to us and makes it difficult for us to throw out such systems as we have today and give serious consideration to how days and months and years were accounted for in those days.

So, all of that to say, that there really isn't any Scriptural evidence that Jesus was crucified on the sixth day of the week.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[robycop3]

Citation needed

John 19:Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

I don't know when the "High Sabbath" term was first used, but it's evident it was a well-established term in Jesus' time. And the "Preparation Day" was the time when the Jews did as much work ahead of time for the special Sabbath, such as food preparation, house-cleaning, cloghes-washing, etc. (Obviously, they had to do SOME work on the Sabbath, such as caring for the ill, and animal husbandry.)

But several rabbis have told me that the rules for the regular weekly Sabbath apply to High Sabbaths, along with the special rules for that particular occasion.

 

[robycop3]

Hi webershome,

There is nothing in the Scriptures concerning what day it was on which Jesus was crucified except a mention of a Sabbath. John records it as a 'special' Sabbath. This would infer that it was not the regular 7th day Sabbath of the 10 commandment law.

Throughout the law, given unto Moses, there are a number of Sabbaths that are commanded by God for His people to observe. So, the mere mention of an upcoming Sabbath doesn't necessarily intend the regular seventh day Sabbath. As far as I am aware, the entire issue of 'Good Friday' is predicated on this 'fact' that the Sabbath mentioned in the crucifixion account is the regular seventh day Sabbath. If we allow that it wasn't, then there are other days of the week on which Jesus could have been nailed to that cross that would allow for a regular understanding of Jesus' reference to Jonah and the big fish.

In fact, around the time of the Passover, there are a couple of 'special' Sabbaths called for in God's law that would have been observed. They are the first and seventh day of the Passover. Many believe that the Sabbath that John is referring to is the Sabbath commanded to begin the Feast of unleavened bread. If we allow that the timeline of Jesus' death is foretold in the actual observance of the Sabbath, according to the law, then Jesus would have been crucified before the actual observance of that first day Passover Sabbath. Therefore, it may well have been this 'special' first day of Passover Sabbath that prompted the Jews to call for Jesus' body to be removed quickly.

It's possible that there were two Sabbaths back to back in that year. The first day Passover Sabbath could well have been on Friday, as we now account the days of the week. Then immediately following that Passover Sabbath on Friday there would have been the regular seventh day Sabbath to follow on Saturday. Of course, it must be noted that Sabbaths began at sundown and so the Passover Sabbath would have begun at evening on Friday and then the regular Sabbath would immediately follow from the evening of Saturday. This would explain why Mary was going to the tomb very early 'on the first day of the week'. Two Sabbaths, back to back, had passed which would not have legally allowed the women to attend to Jesus' body prior to that first day of the week.

The account reads that when the Jews asked that the bodies be removed, that they explained that 'the next day' was a Sabbath. This could mean that Jesus actually died on the 'day' before the Friday Sabbath was to begin and could well mean Thursday, as we account the days of the week.

However, in all of this, what I am absolutely sure of is that God's word is true. No matter how we think to work out the days surrounding Jesus' crucifixion, Jesus was in the tomb for three days and three nights just as he said that he would be. However, let it be known that the idea of 'Good Friday' is not a Scriptural teaching. The observance of that day as somehow special to the crucifixion account is something begun well after the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord.

Some theologians pin its beginnings around the 4th century A.D. That's about 300-350 years after the deaths of all of the first apostles. If the Scriptures teach us nothing more about the nature of man, I think it's clear that in that span of time, a lot of things can be twisted about our thinking and understanding of God.

Some evidence points to the days of the week even having names didn't begin until a couple of hundred years after Jesus' ascended to the right hand of the Majesty. It is believed that at the time that Jesus walked among us, the days were merely numbered first through seventh. This numbering always relying on the last Sabbath. Thus, the first day of the week would have been the day after the seventh day Sabbath. Then the second through sixth days would have followed in order until the next seventh day Sabbath. There wasn't any need to keep account of days and years as we do today.

People didn't have monthly bills to be paid. They generally didn't schedule events weeks or months out as we do today. The idea of dating each day by month, day and year, as we do every day on dozens of documents each day today, would have been foreign to them. Their news reports didn't come with a banner proclaiming the day, month and year of a particular news report. I believe that this concept is something that is so ingrained in our culture and methodology today, that it's actually hard for us to comprehend how days were accounted 2,000 years ago.

Today, we have gone back and counted the time before numbering years began, and given a number to those years. However, as those years actually passed in reality, if there was any accounting for 'when' a particular time was assigned to an event, it would have been tied to the rule of a leader for which all people would have a knowledge of. Again, this idea of time keeping is very foreign to us and makes it difficult for us to throw out such systems as we have today and give serious consideration to how days and months and years were accounted for in those days.

So, all of that to say, that there really isn't any Scriptural evidence that Jesus was crucified on the sixth day of the week.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

I agree. There's simply no way to get 3 nights & 3 days outta Friday to Sunday morn!

 

[prodromos]

John 19:Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

I don't know when the "High Sabbath" term was first used, but it's evident it was a well-established term in Jesus' time. And the "Preparation Day" was the time when the Jews did as much work ahead of time for the special Sabbath, such as food preparation, house-cleaning, cloghes-washing, etc. (Obviously, they had to do SOME work on the Sabbath, such as caring for the ill, and animal husbandry.)

But several rabbis have told me that the rules for the regular weekly Sabbath apply to High Sabbaths, along with the special rules for that particular occasion.

There was no restriction on preparing food on these days that I am aware of, as there was for the weekly Sabbath, so there was no 'Preparation Day' as there was for the weekly Sabbath.

The Scriptures also do not use the term "High Sabbath". John says that that Sabbath was a "high day", which is what you would call the weekly Sabbath when it coincided with one of those special annual holy convocations.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

John 19:Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

I don't know when the "High Sabbath" term was first used, but it's evident it was a well-established term in Jesus' time. And the "Preparation Day" was the time when the Jews did as much work ahead of time for the special Sabbath, such as food preparation, house-cleaning, cloghes-washing, etc. (Obviously, they had to do SOME work on the Sabbath, such as caring for the ill, and animal husbandry.)

See, you make no sense. THAT Sabbath was a "high day". If it was a Sabbath feast day and not ALSO the regular weekly Sabbath, there would be no reason whatsoever to say it that way. It is said that way BECAUSE it was the weekly Sabbath AND ALSO a "high day". The day of preparation was always on Friday. It is even today in Greek.

 

[ViaCrucis]

John 19:Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

I don't know when the "High Sabbath" term was first used, but it's evident it was a well-established term in Jesus' time. And the "Preparation Day" was the time when the Jews did as much work ahead of time for the special Sabbath, such as food preparation, house-cleaning, cloghes-washing, etc. (Obviously, they had to do SOME work on the Sabbath, such as caring for the ill, and animal husbandry.)

But several rabbis have told me that the rules for the regular weekly Sabbath apply to High Sabbaths, along with the special rules for that particular occasion.

γὰρ μεγάλη ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνου τοῦ σαββάτου

"for that Sabbath was a great day"

Yes, a Sabbath during the time of Passover is important.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[robycop3]

See, you make no sense. THAT Sabbath was a "high day". If it was a Sabbath feast day and not ALSO the regular weekly Sabbath, there would be no reason whatsoever to say it that way. It is said that way BECAUSE it was the weekly Sabbath AND ALSO a "high day". The day of preparation was always on Friday. It is even today in Greek.

OF COURSE, the "prep day" is always on Friday for the regular weekly Saturday Sabbath, but that High Sabbath coming the day after Jesus' death was NOT on Saturday.

And it's still impossible to get 3 days & 3 nights from Friday to Sunday!

 

[prodromos]

OF COURSE, the "prep day" is always on Friday for the regular weekly Saturday Sabbath, but that High Sabbath coming the day after Jesus' death was NOT on Saturday.

There is no "preparation day" before a "high day" unless that high day falls on a Sabbath.

And it's still impossible to get 3 days & 3 nights from Friday to Sunday!

It's impossible to get three days and three nights in the grave AND rise on the third day. You think having an extra Sabbath helps your case?