GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

[Marco70]

So if(if) we understand Paul's message, we know why he wrote:

The power of sin is the law(1Cor15:56) the legally enforceable law to condemn/a law of righteousness.

Christ died to remove sins true power from the believers life
(righteousness of observing the law) Your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more.

The born again believers heartfelt desire to obey(for that is where the law has been placed) can now come to fruition, for what opposes obedience(sin) was dealt a crushing blow by Christ dying to remove its true power from the believers life(the law of righteousness)

Hence Paul states:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14



However:

Many after drinking the old wine don’t want the new, for they say: The old is better Luke5:39



And so, they tell you, you can only remain in a saved state if you observe the law/therefore you can only attain heaven if you observe the law/therefore, in reality you have righteousness of observing the law. For you can only be righteous before God/saved if you observe the law



Those who follow after the letter, cannot and do not practice what they preach/demand of others, for, the letter(of the TC) kills. 2Cor3:6

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Please show me the post where you have provided new testament scripture that commands the Church to gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus?
You can't prove your "theology" from scripture, because there is no scripture that commands the Church to gather on the Sabbath.
There is no such commandment in all of scripture.
Paul warns the Church about returning to the law of Moses, which is bondage.
This religion of the Sabbath, was designed for those who do not have the Spirit to have their own religion, making the Sabbath their focus rather than walking according to the Spirit.

• how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years.

4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. 8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods. 9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.
Galatians 4:4-11

We who are in Christ have the liberty to choose to esteem or observe which day we gather ourselves to worship the Lord.

• he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. Romans 14:5-6

So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17
JLB

No worries... When you start replying to my posts, scriptures and questions you have ignored I am happy to continue discussions with you. At the moment your only repeating yourself from post that have been repeatedly answered with scripture in past posts to you. These are just a few linked posts below that you have ignored and not responded to, so it is hard to have a discussion with you if your not willing to discuss anything.

SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 1 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 2 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 3 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 4 CLICK ME.
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 5 CLICK ME.
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 6 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 7 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 8 CLICK ME

These are just a few of the posts, scriptures and questions you have ignored.

Happy to continue discussions with you if you make an agreement to respond to my posts questions and scriptures that disagree with your teachings.

Will you agree? YES/NO?

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[DarylFawcett]

@Bob S

Would you say that the following text constitutes the New Covenant that you posted about?

Jeremiah 31:31 ESV "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my [old] covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.
33 For this is the [new] covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it [my law] on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[JLB777]

No worries... When you start replying to my posts, scriptures and questions you have ignored I am happy to continue discussions with you. At the moment your only repeating yourself from post that have been repeatedly answered with scriture in past posts to you.

SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 1 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 2 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 3 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 4 CLICK ME.
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 5 CLICK ME.
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 6 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 7 CLICK ME
SCRIPTURE SUPPORT 8 CLICK ME

These are just a few of the posts, scriptures and questions you have ignored my friend.

Happy to continue discussions with you if you make an agreement to respond to my posts questions and scriptures that disagree with your teachings.

Will you agree? YES/NO?

................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Here is what the link provided -


10 Bullet points that contain your opinion "tagged" with scripture references.


Not one single word about the command for the Church to gather on the Sabbath.



Building on the OLD TESTAMENT in the NEW TESTAMENT .....

1. Jesus taught that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

2. Jesus taught that God's Sabbath was made for mankind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their traditions and interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

3. Jesus taught that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

4. Jesus is our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

5. Jesus taught that break God's Commandments and teach others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom? (Matt 5:19)

6. Jesus taught that not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? (Matthew 5:18)

7. Jesus taught that on the two great commandments of LOVE to GOD and MAN hang ALL the LAW and the prophets (Matthew 22:36-40)

8. Paul warns us that those who do NOT believe and follow GOD do not enter into God's Sabbath rest because of their SINS and UNBELIEF (Hebrews 3-4)

9. Paul kept the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles (Acts 13:14-15; 42-44; Acts 16:13; Acts 17-1-2; Acts 18:4-5)

10. Jesus, Paul, James, John and Peter all ketp the Sabbath and taught there is 10 Commandments which includes the Sabbath and if you break anyone of God's Commandments you stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12; Romans 7:7; 3:20; 1 John 3:4).

Why would Jesus and the Apostles give us further instruction in relation to Sabbath keeping building on the OLD TESTAMENET scriptures if we no longer need to keep it? (Point 1, 2, 3, 6)



Where is the scripture that commands the Church to gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus?


Please show us just one scripture, where Jesus or the Apostles commanded the Church to gather on the Sabbath.


You are the one who claims it's a commandment to gather on the Sabbath, to worship Jesus, so now the onus is on you to produce that scripture.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Does the Old Testament Sabbath law apply to the Church?




JLB

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You are the one who claims it's a commandment to gather on the Sabbath, to worship Jesus, so now the onus is on you to produce that scripture. JLB

Now JBL that was never your question now my friend was it?

JBL777 wrote: My question has always been, how does the New Testament instruct us to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant?

The scriptures were supplied in the next post here linked which you ignored.

Did you wish to discuss them?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Does the Old Testament Sabbath law apply to the Church? JLB

You tell me? Do the 10 Commandments apply to the Church? You have already said they do haven't you? So what is the 4th commandment from God's 10 Commandments? (Exodus 20:8-11)

 

[Bob S]

@Bob S

Would you say that the following text constitutes the New Covenant that you posted about?

Jeremiah 31:31 ESV "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my [old] covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.
33 For this is the [new] covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it [my law] on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Yes Daryl equitably except that Jesus also included Gentiles. Jesus is God.

Now I am guessing that you will tell me "my law" is the 10 commandments. That would make the law written on our hearts the ministry of death. Do you believe it is the ministry of death that is written on your heart? Read 2Cor3:7-11 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Daryl, do you believe Paul over the teachings of man? What is the ministry of the Spirit Daryl? Do you see where the ministry of the Spirit replaces the ministry of death. We are blessed with the ministry of the Spirit in our hearts as our guide to a righteous life in Jesus. The 10 commandments became the ministry of death as the guide for Israel.

Jesus gave us new commands. In John 15 He said the following beautiful command: 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you.13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Daryl, I plead with you, what other command do we need to have implanted into our hearts? I have to tell you that you have been led down a path of salvation of works. It is a legalistic approach to salvation that was never meant to be. My heart aches for all of you that have been led to the fountain of poisoned water. I have to tell you that your prophet was a fake. She spoke out of both sides of her mouth. Yes, if you are interested in hearing the truth I will gladly provide you with things the church has withheld from the flock, shocking true falsehood right from the "pen of inspiration". Are you willing or is your mind closed to the real truth? Will I really perish if I don't go under the old law and "keep" the Sabbath like Ellen White stated. Does my salvation hinge on salvation by works of the old covenant.

In 2Cor 3 we read that the 10 commandments were (past tense) transitory. Transitory means temporary. Temporary because they were part of the old covenant. The old covenant has past. We Christians are part of the new everlasting covenant. Since the 10 were transitory they could not possibly be the laws written in our hearts. The 10 commandments didn't even include the laws of love and please do not tell me the 10 were the commandments of love. There is nothing about love in any of them.

 

[Bob S]

You tell me? Do the 10 Commandments apply to the Church? You have already said they do haven't you? So what is the 4th commandment from God's 10 Commandments? (Exodus 20:8-11)

The 10 commandments were temporary commands that ended at Calvary. Christians are not under the 10 commandments. 2Cor 3:7-11
Jn15:
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you.13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

 

[Marco70]

Marco you really need to revisit your interreptation of the scriptures here..

It is not God's Law that has bound us it is SIN. God's Law gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is (ROMANS 3:20) so as Paul says God's LAW is HOLY, JUST and GOOD (Romans 7:12)

.

I sincerely wish you could understand this subject, but you cannot.

God's law is indeed, , Holy, just and good. AMEN.

However, sin uses what is holy, just and good(or takes occasion by the commandment) to arouse all manner of sin in man/makes him exceeding sinfull if(if) he lives under righteousness of observing the law.

When the law was given sin increased Rom5:20

Paul the christian is referring to Saul the Pharisee in Rom7:7-11&14-24.

I mean this sincerely, stick to discussing seventh day Sabbath, do not venture beyond that, better for you that way

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The 10 commandments were temporary commands that ended at Calvary. Christians are not under the 10 commandments. 2Cor 3:7-11
Jn15:
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: love each other as I have loved you.13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Now Bob, if God's 10 Commandments were temporary and ended at Calvary then in that line of thinking drawing it through to it's conclusion, it is now ok to commit murder and still go to heaven. Do you see the problem in your interpretation of the scriptures here?

Yet it is Jesus that tells us that God's LAW is eternal and not one jot or tittle is to change; On the two great commandments of LOVE hang ALL the LAW and the Prophets and obedience to God's LAW is a requirement for entering the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

Paul tells us that God's LAW gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is and is HOLY, JUST and GOOD and it is to be ESTABLISHED in those who BELIEVE God's WORD and walk in His Spirit and that LOVE fulfills God's LAW in those who BELIEVE the WORD of God.

James tells us that if we break ANY ONE of God's Commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN

MORE SCRIPTURE SUPPORT CLICK ME HERE...

These are only a few examples here Bob,

God's WORD disagrees with your teachings...


.

 

[DarylFawcett]

Now I am guessing that you will tell me "my law" is the 10 commandments.

The "my law" in that verse is obviously in reference to the "Ten Commandments" which is the New Covenant to the house of Israel and the house of Judah, as also referenced in Hebrews 8:8-10 which is an actual almost identical quote of Jeremiah 31:31-33 which was also for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

What other law than the Ten Commandments was the prophet Jeremiah referencing? What law did the prophet Jeremiah know back then?

What "thy law" was being referenced in the following that King David delighted to do???

Psalm 40:8 KJV I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

 

[Bob S]

Now Bob, if God's 10 Commandments were temporary and ended at Calvary then in that line of thinking drawing it through to it's conclusion, it is now ok to commit murder and still go to heaven. Do you see the problem in your interpretation of the scriptures here?

No lgw your same pat answer because you don't believe Jesus ratified the new covenant. Well He did and He is the Most High Priest. where there is a change in the Priesthood there is a change in the law. Christians are privileged to have the Royal Law of Love as our command. If one truly loves their fellow man they certainly would not harm them in any way. How many times has this been explained to you?

Yet it is Jesus that tells us that God's LAW is eternal and not one jot or tittle is to change;

Where does scripture state that?

Paul tells us that God's LAW gives us a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is

Paul wrote that those who had the law gave them the knowledge of sin.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No lgw your same pat answer because you don't believe Jesus ratified the new covenant. Well He did and He is the Most High Priest. where there is a change in the Priesthood there is a change in the law. Christians are privileged to have the Royal Law of Love as our command. If one truly loves their fellow man they certainly would not harm them in any way. How many times has this been explained to you?

Where does scripture state that?

Paul wrote that those who had the law gave them the knowledge of sin.

Hello Bob,

You have been provided scripture in the previous post that disagrees with your teachings which you simply have ignored. I choose to BELIEVE God's WORD.

 

[Bob S]

The "my law" in that verse is obviously in reference to the "Ten Commandments" which is the New Covenant to the house of Israel and the house of Judah, as also referenced in Hebrews 8:8-10 which is an actual almost identical quote of Jeremiah 31:31-33 which was also for the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Hold on there brother. Jeremiah didn't extend the new covenant to Gentiles either, If Jeremiah meant it would be the same covenant why did he write: 32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt, 33 ‘This is the covenant that I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,’ declares the Lord.
‘I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

Is Jesus God? Since He was the one that ratified the new covenant with His own blood and it was He that said He had kept His Father's commands and ask us to keep His and His is the Royal Law of Love then yes it is the Royal Law of Love that is written on our hearts and Christians are to follow Jesus commands.

What other law than the Ten Commandments was the prophet Jeremiah referencing? What law did the prophet Jeremiah know back then?

Jeremiah should have known how mankind is saved. He should have known all about Abraham and how God saved him. Salvation has never been by the works of the Law, Sinai covenant. That covenant was not about salvation. Go back and read my previous post on the subject. Keeping the 10 commandments cannot save anyone. Keeping the whole Sinai covenant couldn't save one Israelite. Salvation comes by faith believing that Jesus is our Savior and living a life He asks us to live. The rich young ruler who kept the commandments ask Jesus how to be saved. Did Jesus tell him to keep on keeping the 10?

What "thy law" was being referenced in the following that King David delighted to do???

Psalm 40:8 KJV I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

I would presume it would have been the Sinai covenant that contained 613 commands. That is what God gave to Israel and never to any other nation. David was an Israelite. The Israelites had to work with what they had.

For some reason in Hebrews we get a little different message than found in Jeremiah. Hebrews tells us the new covenant is a better covenant. It has better promises. How do you mull that over in your mind?

6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:

‘The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbours,
or say to one another, “Know the Lord,”
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.’

13 By calling this covenant ‘new’, he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

2Cor 3:7-11 fits perfectly with Heb 8. Paul wrote that the 10 commandments were temporary. They are obsolete being replaced by the Holy Spirit. Remember Jesus left all mankind a gift before He left us. Yes, the Holy Spirit within us has become a better guide than the ministry of death written on cold stones. You really need to study 2Cor3:7-11. It is packed with new covenant truth. Remember I too served the SDA church. I know how and what they teach. And furthermore I know where much of the teachings come from. I would be more than happy to share her writings, that you never see, with you.

 

[Bob S]

Hello Bob,

You have been provided scripture in the previous post that disagrees with your teachings which you simply have ignored. I choose to BELIEVE God's WORD.

Why do you always tell us to go back to get your version of the truth lgw? Just evaluate my posts if you don't agree. I don't ignore the parts of your posts that are on topic. Why do you think I respond? That proves I am not ignoring. You seem to delight in trying to put others down because we don't do as you say. Well, I for one, am able to discern God's Word without yours and Mrs White's interpretation.

Tell me again where it states that the 10 commandments are God's eternal law.

 

[Marco70]

The rich young ruler who kept the commandments ask Jesus how to be saved. Did Jesus tell him to keep on keeping the 10?

Actually, the rich young ruler who claimed he obeyed the TC walked away from Christ

 

[Marco70]

.

 

[JLB777]

Now JBL that was never your question now my friend was it?

Of course it's my question. Has anyone else asked this question?

Please just post the scriptures that show us Jesus or the Apostles commanded the Church to gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus.





JLB

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Of course it's my question. Has anyone else asked this question? Please just post the scriptures that show us Jesus or the Apostles commanded the Church to gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus. JLB

No it wasnt as shown above you got caught out. Your question was answered with scriptures so you changed your question right?

JBL777 wrote: My question has always been, how does the New Testament instruct us to keep the Sabbath under the New Covenant?

The scriptures were supplied in the next post here linked which you ignored.