GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

[Marco70]

Nothing wrong at all with gathering to worship on as Saturday if you want to, the error comes when you insist everyone else must do the same

 

[listed]

Please show the commandment from Jesus, or Paul, or Peter or John or James, that says the Church must not gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus, but rather must gather on the First Day of the Week to worship Jesus.

You know there is nothing that you ask for. You also know very well there's nothing showing obligation to gather on Saturday. So why are you dodging rather than admit the truth?

 

[JLB777]

Please show the commandment from Jesus, or Paul, or Peter or John or James, that says the Church must not gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus, but rather must gather on the First Day of the Week to worship Jesus.

You have me mixed up with those who command people to worship on Sunday or Saturday.


The scripture says it's up to the person to be fully convinced, which delineates any such commandment to gather on a specific day.


5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. Romans 14:5-6


I do have a scripture for those of you who think it's a commandment to gather on the Sabbath.

Those who promote the law of Moses, must keep the Sabbath law that are a part of that law.

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.
Galatians 4:9-11

• how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage

Those who promote a commandment to esteem the Sabbath over any other day to go to Church and promoting a man made doctrine of bondage.


Please produce a scripture that says we are commanded to gather on a specific day to worship the Lord Jesus.







JLB

 

[JLB777]

Nothing wrong at all with gathering to worship on as Saturday if you want to, the error comes when you insist everyone else must do the same

 

[DarylFawcett]

You also know very well there's nothing showing obligation to gather on Saturday.

Yes there is, from the Lawgiver Himself.

Who is the Lawgiver? Answer: Jesus is the Lawgiver, as it was Jesus who gave the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai.

 

[Marco70]

God told Moses, the Israelites were a stiff necked, heathen people who would soon desert him once they reached the promised land. Most of the time they only sought to mechanically obey, as it were the legalistic law. They in their hearts, obviously did not want to reflect, and contemplate on God and His goodness to them. And so, it is obvious such people were instructed to put aside a certain day to reflect on God, his goodness to them and thank and praise him for his goodness to them.
However, under the NC, it is a very different covenant, as Jeremiah prophesied. Christ dwells in you through the Spirit. He lives in you. Now if Christ is in you, you cannot fail to meditate on him each and every day of your life(including Saturday). You will naturally reflect on God's goodness to you every day of the week and praise him from your heart for what he has done for you through Christ. The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment, in those TRULY born again is upheld seven days a week. You don't have to be instructed to follow it, you daily want to follow it.
And of course, Paul reasoned something along these lines himself:

One man considers one day more sacred/Holy than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in their own mind
Rom14:5

 

[listed]

Yes there is, from the Lawgiver Himself.

Who is the Lawgiver? Answer: Jesus is the Lawgiver, as it was Jesus who gave the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai.

Please explain Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

If Jesus gave the ten commandments He had already come.

Also could you please explain this one too:

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

This is a comparative statement proving Jesus didn't give the law.

How about the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus refers to the law with " Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time..." followed with "But I say..."

 

[Bob S]

Yes there is, from the Lawgiver Himself.

Who is the Lawgiver? Answer: Jesus is the Lawgiver, as it was Jesus who gave the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai.

It is a matter beyond our capability as to who in the Godhead gave the 10. What we do know is that the Godhead speaks of one accord.

The SDA church that you belong to tells us that if we do not observe the Sabbath of the broken covenant we will lose our eternal inheritance. According to scripture you have been mislead in demanding that others must "keep" Sabbath when there is no such demand in the new and better covenant with better promises. Our covenant is not about how we are to live in Canaan, it is all about how to gain salvation. And salvation does not come by our works of the old covenant. Read Gal 3 where it starts out with "Oh you foolish Galatians"

Who ever gave the 10 commandments gave them to Israel. They were part of the Sinai covenant that Israel broke. A broken covenant is just that. It has no more use as a rule to abide by. By breaking the covenant both parties are freed from the obligation. Israel lost the promised land and Holy nation status that was the reason for the covenant in the first place. Ex 19:5-6 The fact is 2Cor 3:7-11 even tells us the 10 commandments were temporary or in the KJV done away. Col 2 tells us the Sabbath is a Shadow, Jesus Christ is reality.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

This is what I have said from the beginning, which you have completely ignored, and have exposed your doctrine as being from man, and not the scriptures.

Not at all my friend.

We go back sometime already now don't we? I have already answered all your posts with God's WORD but you ignore the posts provided you with the scriptures neither will you respond to them or the questions asked of you.

How can we have a discussion if you simply ignore everything posted to you and repeat the same things already addressed with God's WORD that does not agree with your teachings?

I believe the Church is to keep the 10 Commandments.

Do you? Not from our past conversations. You deny God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments that if broken defines what sin is just like any of the other 10 Commandments.

I don’t believe we are to keep them according to the law of Moses.

What do you mean you do not keep them according to the law of Moses?

Please show the commandment from Jesus, or Paul, or Peter or John or James, that says the Church must gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus.

There you go. You just said above you believe the Church is to keep the 10 Commandments. Now your trying to say please show me from Jesus, Paul, Peter, James or John that the Church must gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus?

What has the church gathering on the Sabbath have to do with God's 4th Commandment?

God's 4th Commandment says...

Exodus 20
8, Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day)
9, Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10, But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY>
11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Nope nothing about gathering on the Sabbath to worship Jesus. Although there is also no scripture that says we should not gather together on the Sabbath to Worship Jesus is there?

If Jesus is our example though I guess he gathered together on the Sabbath to worship God. (Luke 4:16)

Paul after the death and ressurection of Jesus worshipped God on the Sabbath with both Jews and Gentiles...

ACT 13:14-15; 42-44
[14], And when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
[15], And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, You men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

[42], And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. <Why wait till the next Sabbath?>
[43], Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
[44], And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

ACT 16:13 [13], And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a riverside, where prayer was accustomed to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women who met there.

ACT 17:1-2
[1], Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews:
[2], And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

ACT 18:4 [4], And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.
5, And when Silas and Timothy were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the word, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ.

Nope so nothing wrong with assembling together with like minded believers on the Sabbath now is there?

HEBREWS 10:25 [25], Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as you see the day approaching.

When you provide the scripture from Jesus or the Apostles that command the Church to gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus, then I will be forced to listen and obey.

Why do you think there needs to be a commandment to the Church to gather on the Sabbath to worship Jesus when God's 4th Commandment had already been given by God and known to God's people for over 4000 years already?

Now JBL, seriously, if God already gave his people the Commandment to REMEMBER the Sabbath day and to keep the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH as a HOLY DAY according to the 4th Commandment of the 10 and the 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments of God that you yourself claim the Church is to keep. Then should not you be asking yourself the question...

If God has already given the commandment to keep the SEVENTH DAY of the week as a HOLY DAY, WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE that says God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are to keep Sunday as a HOLY DAY?

Now to me if I BELIEVED that God's 10 Commandments are still to be kept by the Church as you state in your own words, then please show me the scripture that says God's 4th Commandment is Abolished?

Now let's get real. We know that God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments right? (see Exodus 20:1:17), James teaches us that if we break ANY ONE of God's Commandments we stand before God in SIN guilty of breaking ALL of them..

JAMES 2:8-12 [8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Now if Jesus, Paul, John, James and Peter all affirm God's 10 Commandments and Jesus gives further instructions in the NEW Testament in relation to correctly keeping God's 4th Commandment I think we should BELIEVE God's WORD don't you?

SCRIPTURE SUPPORT LINKED CLICK ME HERE...

If you can not, then you are promoting a doctrine of bondage.

What is a doctine of BONDAGE? God's LAW is not BONDAGE God's WORD says the LAW of GOD is HOLY, JUST and GOOD. It is SIN that brings us into BONDAGE.

BONDAGE IS TO SIN

HE WHO COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT OF SIN. IF THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED (John 8:31-36).

OBEDIENCE to GOD's LAW by FAITH that works by LOVE is FREEDOM from the BONDAGE OF SIN...

JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in BONDAGE to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN SERVANT OF SIN. [35], And the servant stays not in the house for ever: but the Son stays ever. [36], IF THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.

Jesus calls those who practice sin as the servants of sin SIN and those who commit SIN as being in BONDAGE to sin.

GALATIANS 4:1-5; 9 [1], Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differs nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; [2], But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. [3], Even so we, when we were children, were in BONDAGE under the elements of the world: [4], But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, [5], To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons....

[9], But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto you desire again to be in BONDAGE?

HEBREWS 2:14-15 [14], For as much then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; [15] And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to BONDAGE.

Paul calls those who are in sin subject to BONDAGE..

2 PETER 2:19 [19], While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in BONDAGE.

Jesus, Paul and Peter all relate SIN to being in BONDAGE or being a SERVANT to sin..

ROMANS 6:17-23 [17], But God be thanked, that you were the SERVANTS OF SIN, BUT YOU HAVE OBEYED FROM THE HEART THAT FORM OF DOCTINE THAT WAS DELIEVERED TO YOU. [18], BEING MADE FREE FROM SIN, you became the SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. [19], I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity to iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness to holiness. [20], For when you were the SERVANTS OF SIN, you were free from righteousness. [21], What fruit had you then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. [22], But now being made FREE FROM SIN, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life. [23], For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

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CONCLUSION: He that commits SIN is a SERVANT OF SIN and is in BONDAGE TO SIN and SIN originates in the heart (thoughts and feelings). We can get even clearer than this my friend. What is SIN? God's WORD defines SIN as BREAKING ANY of God's 10 Commandments (James 2:8-12; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20). This includes God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments (Exodus 20:8-11)

.................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

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God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Yes there is, from the Lawgiver Himself.

Who is the Lawgiver? Answer: Jesus is the Lawgiver, as it was Jesus who gave the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai.

Hello Daryl thanks for joining us, nice to see someone else who knows God's WORD here. Welcome to the thread.

 

[listed]

Not at all my friend.

We go back sometime already now don't we? I have already answered all your posts with God's WORD but you ignore the posts provided you with the scriptures neither will you respond to them or the questions asked of you.

How can we have a discussion if you simply ignore everything posted to you and repeat the same things already addressed with God's WORD that does not agree with your teachings?

The very same thing can be said about your responses to the verse we post.

Do you? Not from our past conversations. You deny God's 4th Commandment which is one of the 10 Commandments that if broken defines what sin is just like any of the other 10 Commandments.

I don't think so because of Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

You avoid verse 32 like the plague and refuse to talk about the word "new."

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The very same thing can be said about your responses to the verse we post.

Hi listed, what did you post and what was my response?

I don't think so because of Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So you agree the NEW COVENANT is for ISRAEL now and Gentiles are now grafted in? These scriptures only agree with what is being shared here. There are some of my favourite and not avoided at all. They go with Hebrews 8:10-12; Hebrews 10 and Ezekiel 36:26-27.

.

 

[Bob S]

What is there to be grafted into concerning Israel? They broke the covenant given to them. God has taken away the status of making them a Holy nation. Why would any thinking person want to be grafted into a failed people. Jesus is enough, I am grafted into Him.

 

[The7thColporteur]

23 God has commanded us to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ. He has also commanded us to love one another.

I shared scripture. You are denying scripture by telling me the scripture I present is a lie? John tells me I am of the truth if I believe in Jesus and love others as Jesus commanded and you tell me I am presenting a lie and have not presented any scripture? Bravo lgw, you almost caused me to lose my temper, but then I considered where the post came from. The Holy Spirit brought me out of Adventism and I pray He will do the same for you my friend.

Here is the text:

1 John 3:23 KJB - And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.​

[1] "believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ"

[2] "love one another, as he gave us commandment"​

What are the details of these two things?

What does the name of Jesus Christ mean?:

Matthew 1:21 KJB - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
​

What is sin?

1 John 3:4 KJB - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:5 KJB - And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.​

What does it mean to love one another, as he gave us commandment?

John 13:34 KJB - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.​

Notice that Jesus said to "love one another, as I have loved you"

1 John 2:6 KJB - He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 Peter 2:21 KJB - For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Philippians 2:8 KJB - And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

John 15:10 KJB - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 8:46 KJB - Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Luke 4:16 KJB - And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 4:17 KJB - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 4:18 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:19 KJB - To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

Love is not merely a word, it is defined in living action, obedience to God [who is love], Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:17-18 KJB. The Ten Commandments are God's character expressed in words, and is therefore the expression of how to love/live.

 

[Bob S]

Here is the text:

1 John 3:23 KJB - And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.​

[1] "believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ"

[2] "love one another, as he gave us commandment"​

What are the details of these two things?

What does the name of Jesus Christ mean?:

Matthew 1:21 KJB - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
​

What is sin?

1 John 3:4 KJB - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
You were ding pretty good there, may I call you T7C? Is a commandment a law? Do we sin by breaking a commandment? Then why cannot you accept the fact that John told us we have the truth if we believe in Jesus and love others like Jesus loves us. The greatest commands ever given. Those are the laws Christians are to obey.
Israel had the Sinai laws to which you keep referring to as the ones we are to obey. Then the fact is you limit the laws from the Sinai covenant to ten laws and two from the book of the law. Who has given you the authority to claim those laws as being what 1Jn3:4 is revealing. You do not make any sense friend. John didn't leave us wondering which laws Christians are to observe as for us being in the truth. Verses 23 and 24 do a great job in explaining what we are to believe. Anything you might try to add is only what you believe to be true, not what scripture is telling us.

What does it mean to love one another, as he gave us commandment?

It means that I am to die for my fellow man if necessary.​

John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

​

John 13:34 KJB - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.​

Notice that Jesus said to "love one another, as I have loved you"

You are preaching to the choir T7C. One of my favorite verses. Nothing come close to as being as powerful as that vers in all the Holy Writ.

1 John 2:6 KJB - He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

I hope you are not using that verse out of context. Jesus kept all of the Torah. Are you telling me that since Jesus did I have to?

1 Peter 2:21 KJB - For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

You quoted it , so tell me what it means.

Philippians 2:8 KJB - And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Being humble is a great attribute. Since your post to me after I apologized to you and you returned some nasty remarks to me, I have to wonder if you are only giving lip service to following Jesus.

John 15:10 KJB - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Exactly and what are Jesus commands to us? Well it certainly is not the Sinai covenant, the one you pick and choose from.
​

John 8:46 KJB - Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Luke 4:16 KJB - And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luke 4:17 KJB - And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luke 4:18 KJB - The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luke 4:19 KJB - To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.​

Well I be, Jesus didn't mention "keeping" Sabbath. You know the one your prophet told you had a halo around it because it is so important.

Love is not merely a word, it is defined in living action, obedience to God [who is love], Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:17-18 KJB. The Ten Commandments are God's character expressed in words, and is therefore the expression of how to love/live.

I won't get irate this time when you limit God's character to the ministry of death. I consider the source, Ellen White. SDAs parrot her cliches like I do Bible promises. I thought just maybe you would have learned something from my rant Just know that I am adamantly opposed to SDAs belittling God's character as being the 10 commandments. There are no words to express the character of our God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What is there to be grafted into concerning Israel? They broke the covenant given to them. God has taken away the status of making them a Holy nation. Why would any thinking person want to be grafted into a failed people. Jesus is enough, I am grafted into Him.

Good question Bob,

ROMANS 11 answers this very well but before we move there you need to understand the ORIGIN of where the name ISRAEL comes from so let's look at the scriptures here before we move on...

God's promise to Abraham was...

GENESIS 12:1-3 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing; And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

GENESIS 22:17 Indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies.

GALATIANS 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

the promised land is through Chrsit which was given to Abraham, God saying his descendents will be a great nation as the stars in heaven or the sand of the sea.

The ORIGIN of the name of ISRAEL God gives to Jacob...

GENESIS 32:24-28, [24], And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. [25], And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. [26], And he said, Let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, I will not let you go, except you bless me. [27], And he said unto him, What is your name? And he said, Jacob. [28], And he said, Your name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince have you power with God and with men, and have prevailed.

Jacob (now named ISRAEL from GOD) had 12 Sons that make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL; Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Gad and Ephraim.

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CONCLUSION: God's promise was to Abraham. The name ISRAEL was given by God to Abrahams seed Jacob as he wrestled with the Angel and to his promised seed who are God's people who BELIEVE and FOLLOW him and have received the promise of Christ and the gospel of eternal life through faith.

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WHO ARE GOD'S ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT?

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

No explanation needed, believe God's Word, and again...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

God's Israel continued...

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

and again...

JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul proclaims it here...

HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD. If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

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CONCLUSION: God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

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GENTILES are now grafted in please read ROMANS 11:16-27

ROMANS 11:16-27
[16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
[17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
[18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
[19], You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
[20], Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:
[21], For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
[22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
[23], And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
[24], For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
[25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
[26], And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[27], For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

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CONCLUSION: Gentiles are now GRAFTED INTO God's ISRAEL through faith in Christ (the root). God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD.

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WHO WILL BE SAVED AT THE SECOND COMING?

REVELATION 7:1-8
[1], And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
[2], And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
[3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.
[4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
[5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
[6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand.
[7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
[8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

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CONCLUSION: Gentiles are now GRAFTED INTO God's ISRAEL through faith in Christ (the root). God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. The NEW COVENANT promise has always been to GOD'S ISRAEL. The NAME ISRAEL is only a name given by God to those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD.

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WHAT IS GOD'S EVERLASTING COVENANT TO HIS PEOPLE?

let's read the scriptures....

EXODUS 31:13-17 [13], Speak also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you. [14], You shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [15], Six days may work be done; but on the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever does any work on the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. [16], Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a EVERLASTING covenant. [17], It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

New Living Translation
The people of Israel must keep the Sabbath day by observing it from generation to generation. This is a covenant obligation for all time.

English Standard Version
Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.

New American Standard Bible
'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'

King James Bible
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Christian Standard Bible
The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a permanent covenant.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Let the children of Israel keep the sabbath, and celebrate it in their generations. It is an everlasting covenant

Darby Bible Translation
And the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations -- [it is] an everlasting covenant.

Now all of this links into the next key scripture as follows

............................

ISAIAH 66:22-23 [22], For as the NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH, which I will make, shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your descendants and your name remain. [23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says the LORD.

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CONCLUSION: Yep the scriptures are pretty clear here that God's SABBATH is an EVERLASTING COVENANT that will be kept in the NEW EARTH. If you are not a part of GOD's ISRAEL you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT promise.

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[DarylFawcett]

What was the Old Covenant that was broken and then what is the New Covenant that was given and what is similar and different between both of them?

The SDA church that you belong to tells us that if we do not observe the Sabbath of the broken covenant we will lose our eternal inheritance. According to scripture you have been mislead in demanding that others must "keep" Sabbath when there is no such demand in the new and better covenant with better promises. Our covenant is not about how we are to live in Canaan, it is all about how to gain salvation. And salvation does not come by our works of the old covenant. Read Gal 3 where it starts out with "Oh you foolish Galatians"

 

[Marco70]

Old covenant:


And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness Deut6:25



An external, written down law



New covenant:



This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more

Heb10:16&17



An internal law, written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer. No longer righteousness of observing the law, for: your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more:

Hence:

Christ is the end of the law, unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom10:4



It is not a covenant according to the letter, for, the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.



Similarities:

The moral law, under the OC, hung on love God and love your neighbour(matt22:40)

Nothing has changed in this respect, for, love fulfils the law(Rom13:10)

The moral law remains, but Gentiles do not have, what we term the legalistic law in their hearts and minds(Acts ch15)

But, in regard to the fourth commandment, because believers have been born again, because Christ dwells in them, they instinctively want to meditate on, reflect on, and praise God for his goodness to them seven days a week(including Saturdays) The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment, is upheld in TRULY born again believers every day. So it is then up to the individual if they want to set aside a specific day of worship, or treat every day alike:

One person considers one day more sacred/holy than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind Rom 14:5

The power of sin is the law(1Cor15:56) the legally enforceable law to condemn/a law of righteousness.

Christ died to remove sins true power from the believers life
(righteousness of observing the law)

The born again believers heartfelt desire to obey(for that is where the law has been placed) can now come to fruition, for what opposes obedience(sin) was dealt a crushing blow by Christ dying to remore its true power from the believers life(the law of righteousness)

Hence Paul states:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14



However:

Many after drinking the old wine don’t want the new, for they say: The old is better Luke5:39



And so, they tell you, you can only remain in a saved state if you observe the law/therefore you can only attain heaven if you observe the law/therefore, in reality you have righteousness of observing the law. For you can only be righteous before God/saved if you observe the law



Those who follow after the letter, cannot and do not practice what they preach/demand of others, for, the letter(of the TC) kills. 2Cor3:6

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Old covenant:


And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness Deut6:25



An external, written down law



New covenant:



This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.’b]'>[b]

17 Then he adds:

‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more

Heb10:16&17



An internal law, written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer. No longer righteousness of observing the law, for: your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more:

Hence:

Christ is the end of the law, unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom10:4



It is not a covenant according to the letter, for, the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.



Similarities:

The moral law, under the OC, hung on love God and love your neighbour(matt22:40)

Nothing has changed in this respect, for, love fulfils the law(Rom13:10)

The moral law remains, but Gentiles do not have, what we term the legalistic law in their hearts and minds(Acts ch15)

But, in regard to the fourth commandment, because believers have been born again, because Christ dwells in them, they instinctively want to meditate on, reflect on, and praise God for his goodness to them seven days a week(including Saturdays) The spiritual intent of the fourth commandment, is upheld in TRULY born again believers every day. So it is then up to the individual if they want to set aside a specific day of worship, or treat every day alike:

One person considers one day more sacred/holy than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind Rom 14:5

The power of sin is the law(1Cor15:56) the legally enforceable law to condemn/a law of righteousness.

Christ died to remove sins true power from the believers life
(righteousness of observing the law)

The born again believers heartfelt desire to obey(for that is where the law has been placed) can now come to fruition, for what opposes obedience(sin) was dealt a crushing blow by Christ dying to remore its true power from the believers life(the law of righteousness)

Hence Paul states:

For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14



However:

Many after drinking the old wine don’t want the new, for they say: The old is better Luke5:39



And so, they tell you, you can only remain in a saved state if you observe the law/therefore you can only attain heaven if you observe the law/therefore, in reality you have righteousness of observing the law. For you can only be righteous before God/saved if you observe the law



Those who follow after the letter, cannot and do not practice what they preach/demand of others, for, the letter(of the TC) kills.

Daryl raised a good question above because some do not understand what the Old Covenant is. If one does not understand what the Old Covenant is how can they understand what the new Covenant is?

What makes up the OLD Covenant in your view Marco?

How can you have the Spirit if you do not know the letter?

 

[Marco70]

But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not the old way of the written code/law Rom7:6

Those who preach the letter of the law have chosen their path. They cannot follow after the Holy Spirit, for it has to be one or the other. And only the Holy Spirit can lead into truth. Such people do still have the ability to endlessly quote the letter, but not to understand the message the letter contains. The Pharisees of Jesus day were a perfect example of this.
The law is within you, those who preach the letter will agree with that. They will tell you: sin is the transgression of the law. They will tell you: Through the law we become conscious of sin. But apparently, they do not believe this includes the law written on the mind and placed on the heart. You have to read what is written in ink, to know applicable law/what sin is.(contradictions pile high)
A good example of following after the written code, rather than the only one who can lead you into truth.

Once again. Those who follow after the letter, cannot practice what they preach, for, the letter(of the TC) kills. They are reduced to making pat statements that bear no reality to their own lives.