Anything that doesn't agree with you is opinion, that includes the Bible.
What makes up the OLD COVENANT in your view?
A proper response to this would only draw a report about attacking the poster.1. I am not a Bible translator.
2. I don't believe in "eisegesis" - so the idea of "deleting context" and "deleting the exegetical setting" for a given text - is not something I am used to doing.
Nice post Bob, enjoyed reading this.
To add another dimension to this as well. BONDAGE being referred to here is SIN as ties in nicely with ROMANS 3:19-20 and also JOHN 8:31-36 and not God's LAW (10 Commandments) as some believe.
As it is also written in..
JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We are Abraham's descendants, and were never in BONDAGE to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT OF SIN. [35], And the servant abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides ever. [36], IF THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE <from SIN> YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.
.................
BONDAGE= SIN and being a servant to SIN (we cannot serve two masters)
PROMISE = FREEDOM FROM SIN
.................
links also to Gal 4:21-31...
GALATIANS 4:21-31 [21], Tell me, you that desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? [22], For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a free woman. [23], But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the free woman was by promise. [24], WHICH THINGS ARE AN ALLEGORY: FOR THESE ARE THE TWO COVENANTS; THE ONE FROM MOUNT SINAI, WHICH BRINGS FORTH TO BONDAGE WHICH IS HAGAR. [25], For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answers to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. [26], But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. [27], For it is written, Rejoice, you barren that bear not; break forth and cry, you that travail not: for the desolate has many more children than she who has a husband. [28], Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. [29], But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. [30], Nevertheless what says the scripture? Cast out the BONDWOMEN AND HER SON (OLD COVENANT ): for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the free woman.
HAGAR = OLD COVENANT (Exodus)
SARAH = NEW COVENANT PROMISE (Jer 31:31-33; Heb 8:10-12)
.................
links to Rom 3:19-20...
ROMANS 3:19-20 [19], Now we know that whatsoever things the law says, it says to them who are UNDER THE LAW: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: FOR BY THE LAW IS THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN.
back to John 8...
[34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT OF SIN. [35], And the servant abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides ever. [36], IF THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE <from SIN> YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.
NEW COVENANT PROMISE IS FREEDOM FROM SIN BY WALLKING IN GOD'S SPIRIT.
.................
CONCLUSION: HAGAR and her son represent the OLD COVENANT and those who are in BONDAGE to SIN. God's LAW gives a KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is.
SARAH represents the NEW COVENANT and freewomen and those who have found forgiveness through FAITH in the BLOOD of CHRIST.
Continuing in God's WORD by FAITH we have Christs promise of freedom from SIN to LOVE as he has first LOVED us. LOVE is the fulfilling of the LAW in those who BELIEVE and walk in his SPIRIT.
The problem is many do not know what the OLD COVENANT is and mix up the SHADOW laws with those which are eternal and give us a KNOWLEDGE of SIN that lead us to the Savior and are the standard in the OLD and NEW COVENANTS and the Judgement to come.
Anything that doesn't agree with you is opinion, .
That's not what you're doing. You preach a relationship with the law, not Jesus.
In short you demand agreement with you ignoring Scripture.Sadly for that suggestion, the myth that an irrefutable point -- totally unanswerable by the opposing view - can be "deleted" simply by noting it was "seen and skimmed past before" -- is a flawed "solution" and apparently everyone but the one posting that idea - can see it clearly.
The fact that there has been no answer for my irrefutable texts and that the same old already-debunked-by-it idea was just posted begging once again for the texts to come back - is reason enough to re-post it -- even though you can get some "please don't post that irrefutable point again it was already thought-deleted in wishful-thinking by having been seen and skimmed past"
(And the other reason for doing it is to show the conversation context so short meaningless snip post after snip-post having no interest or context or meaning to outside readers - is avoided entirely)
if that were even true - then the much-imagined wonderful "answer" would be joyfully re-posted with a "thank you for the opportunity to get this out in current post again" added.
Nothing of the sort will surface when the 'answer' turns out to be "less than" and the "complaint" far more interesting than the whimper of a response that was given to the actual details posted in my initial irrefutable-texts post.
We all knew this already -- obviously -- but it is fund unmask the "game" whenever it comes up - all the same.
In short you demand agreement with you ignoring Scripture.
I can agree with you that my post was indeed insightful. Thanks.
(hint) Deuteronomy 5:3.hint: the "old covenant" was given in fact to Adam as "Obey and Live"
Question to @BobRyan. What covenant was given by God on Mt. Sinai? Whatever it was represented Ishmael and was to be "cast out"
(hint) Deuteronomy 5:3.
You quote it and disregard it, why?Nice post Bob, enjoyed reading this.
To add another dimension to this as well. BONDAGE being referred to here is SIN as ties in nicely with ROMANS 3:19-20 and also JOHN 8:31-36 and not God's LAW (10 Commandments) as some believe.
As it is also written in..
JOHN 8:31-36 [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. [33], They answered him, We are Abraham's descendants, and were never in BONDAGE to any man: how say you, You shall be made free? [34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, WHOSOEVER COMMITS SIN IS A SERVANT OF SIN. [35], And the servant abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides ever. [36], IF THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE <from SIN> YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED.
I answered this somewhere this morning. The entire OT is the covenant and about the covenant given to Israel. It also includes the promise of the NC as early as Genesis 3.Hello listed,
What makes up the OLD COVENANT in your view?
Your proof is nothing but a personal attack. That isn't proof of anything but an empty argument.False accusation is not the same thing as Bible evidence for some suggestion
unbiased objective?ignoring every single detail in the post - we then got this.
How "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.
Cute tactic of including another with something unrelated just to get your stuff re-posted. Reading and bleieving are very different things.hint: I have read it.
I did twice in fact.
Hi 1stcenturylady,
Indeed there is much scruipture to share with you but you do not believe it when it is posted. I think you do yourself a greater disservice by ignoring the scritpures sent to you and ignoring the questions asked of you as a help to the discussion. You expect others to answer your questions on demand or try and change the topic of discussion when you are confronted with too many scriptures that disagree with you or questions you are not able to answer.
NO you have not answered anything sent to you and NO you have not answered any questions posted to you. This is your disservice.
For your information some spend a lot of time in bible study and share the scriptures with you as a help. You claim cut and paste but I only cut and paste Scripture that is relevant to the topic of discussion spent in hours of personal time with God. Sometimes, I add a Sabbath signature at the end of my post in relation to God's 4th Commandment and will continue to do so as God leads after I answer a post or challenge a post that is being responded to. You do not need to read this part of the post as it is lined off always at the end as a signature.
You choose to ignore the scriptures and the questions sent to you that are posted. I do not judge you this is your decision to do so. You can make a joke about it saying cut and paste but it is God's WORD that you are ignoring and it is God's WORD that is sent to help all that shall be our judge in the last days.
Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.
Ignoring the WORD of God in order to follow the tradtions and teachings of men that break the commandments of God will keep all who knowingly do so out of God's KINGDOM.
Hi my little Aussie friend,
I actually have answered your scriptures. Just not all of them at a time, otherwise, knowing the people on forums, if it is too long, it doesn't get read. I answered the first three scriptures you posted that start with James 2. And what was your answer? The same long post including the three scriptures I just answered. If there was any additions to it, it got lost in the confusion. @BobRyan does the same thing. Sometimes, I don't think he even reads my posts, as he seldom answers a point I make. This time he did when forced to. And I appreciated it, richly. It was a good start to being able to reason together. The good discussions I've had repeatedly are with ECR. Now if you are done with your accusations, did you have anything to add to Galatians 4?
God bless,
1stCL
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