God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?

[BobRyan]

In Lev 18 God lists the sins for which he would wipe out a Godless pagan nation.

Israel moved in to the land of the Canaanites because their sins brought them into judgment and God wiped out those pagan nations. So also Sodom and Gomorrah.

James says in James 4:17 "to him that KNOWS to do right and does it not - to him it is sin".

In Romans 1 - Paul lists a few of their sins - and then says "they were without excuse" speaking of pagan nations and that they knew that God's judgment would fall on them.

"The Holy Spirit convicts THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16

Christ said to the Jews "if you were blind you would have no sin but you say 'we see' your sin remains"

We are accountable for the light that we have. And Christ IS "the LIGHT the coming into the world enlightens EVERY one of mankind" John 1. But people refuse the light "for they loved darkness rather than light - for their deeds were evil" John 3

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Sophrosyne]

I see no mention of wiping out any anyone not of Israel for breaking the Sabbath therefore the 10 commandments were not applicable to anyone but Israel.

 

[BobRyan]

I see no mention of wiping out any anyone not of Israel for breaking the Sabbath therefore the 10 commandments were not applicable to anyone but Israel.

In Lev 18 blasphemy against the name of God, worshiping idols, coveting, stealing, lying, dishonoring parents, Sabbath breaking are not listed for the pagan nations as getting their nation wiped off the planet.

But they do have a number of sins that are counted against their entire nation.

Acts 17:30 "having overlooked times of ignorance God is now calling all mankind everywhere to repent"

Some might imagine that this Lev 18 list means that God did not regard blasphemy against the name of God, worshiping idols, coveting, stealing, lying, dishonoring parents .. as sins but I would differ with those who draw that conclusion just because they are trying to find a way around the 4th commandment.

And here are one or two other Christian groups/source-documents that share that view.

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Sophrosyne]

If you can't produce nations punished because of breaking the Sabbath then they you have no proof that the 10 commandments apply to them. Let's face it the Sabbath was only for Israel to keep and never commanded of anyone BUT Israel... and there is NO proof otherwise throughout the Bible anyone BUT Israel was to keep it.... Game over.

 

[maco]

If you can't produce nations punished because of breaking the Sabbath then they you have no proof that the 10 commandments apply to them. Let's face it the Sabbath was only for Israel to keep and never commanded of anyone BUT Israel... and there is NO proof otherwise throughout the Bible anyone BUT Israel was to keep it.... Game over.

The other nations weren't God's people but we are. It's still the same way today, people who are not believers don't follow the Law of God.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The other nations weren't God's people but we are. It's still the same way today, people who are not believers don't follow the Law of God.

I don't follow the 10 commandments does that make me an unbeliever? The Jews didn't believe but followed the 10 commandments as did most of Israel in the OT they followed the Law even if they were atheists because if they were caught breaking it they could be killed.
So what we get from this warped logic is belief doesn't equate to following the Law as far as Israel is concerned.. many believed and broke it and some probably followed it better than others who didn't believe in God at all.

 

[maco]

I don't follow the 10 commandments does that make me an unbeliever? The Jews didn't believe but followed the 10 commandments as did most of Israel in the OT they followed the Law even if they were atheists because if they were caught breaking it they could be killed.
So what we get from this warped logic is belief doesn't equate to following the Law as far as Israel is concerned.. many believed and broke it and some probably followed it better than others who didn't believe in God at all.

Really! You don't follow the Ten Commandments? Do you love God and love others? You probably follow at least nine of them if you do because that's what you've been taught to do but in time you will love God with all your heart, soul and strength.

 

[maco]

One cannot break the Laws of Israel if one isn't an Israeli to begin with.

Ephesians 2:11-13 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

 

[Cribstyl]

Ephesians 2:11-13 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Don't leave out the critical facts......
Eph 2:14
¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

If your commentary contradicts the scriptures, you'll never stop talking noise.

 

[BobRyan]

If you can't produce nations punished because of breaking the Sabbath then they you have no proof that the 10 commandments apply to them.

Is that how you would also dismiss blasphemy against the name of God? The fact that Lev 18 does not list this as a cause for pagan-nation destruction?? really??

In Lev 18 blasphemy against the name of God, worshiping idols, coveting, stealing, lying, dishonoring parents, Sabbath breaking are not listed for the pagan nations as getting their nation wiped off the planet.

But they do have a number of sins that are counted against their entire nation.

Acts 17:30 "having overlooked times of ignorance God is now calling all mankind everywhere to repent"

Some might imagine that this Lev 18 list means that God did not regard blasphemy against the name of God, worshiping idols, coveting, stealing, lying, dishonoring parents .. as sins but I would differ with those who draw that conclusion just because they are trying to find a way around the 4th commandment.

And here are one or two other Christian groups/source-documents that share that view.

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists

Let's face it the Sabbath was only for Israel to keep and never commanded of anyone BUT Israel

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23.

"The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27

"There REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4.

"Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" Rev 14:7.

"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19.

And of course the non-Jews are KEEPING Sabbath in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18, And Isaiah 56:6

in Christ,

Bob

 

[SG9]

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley

All of them argue for the continued application of ALL TEN commandments to the saints today - starting in Eden and continued to this very day.

So while some Christian groups oppose them - there are quite a number in support of the TEN commandments - because under the New Covenant God writes the Law of God on the heart and mind according to Jer 31:31-33 and also Hebrews 8.

No wonder then Paul can say when contrasting the ceremonial law with the moral law of God "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

And as both John and Paul state keeping the Law of God is not something the lost will do - or CAN do. It is only for saved saints.


1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Paul makes the point that the lost would be at war with the Law of God - but the saints under the New Covenant condition of the Law written on the heart - would not.

What are your thoughts?

in Christ,

Bob

My thoughts are, and based on the general question as I quote: "God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?"

We ought to keep the Law because it is written in us, and who are we, really? It's either, the seed of Christ or the seed of Satan in question, and each have their own Law written in them, and even Satan's seed believes that they are right in their heart's which leads to death, Christ explained.

We must keep, and we being either, in order to be what were in the beginning, what we are now, and what we are to become (evolve into), and both fathers want the same for their seed to continue, and it's a battle of the two.

The Heel of Christ is about to crush the head of the serpent because the "head" of the serpent opposes Yahweh, which is an opposite in this imagery, the head vs the heel, which is depicting a reversal in the human form, being first upside-down in spirit, as the head becomes the heel, and visa verse.

Which end then, ought we be seeing? It will be either Satan as our end, and as a counterfeit of the True Christ, or it will be the End of the Beginning? There will be an End come, and the way of the "beast" is the way of man because of what we have become apart from Yahweh.

We have reversed our polarity in mind and spirit, and have become gentiles in nature, and spirit. This is what must first be changed before one may see either death or Life to come as their reward. We must first be informed so to be fairly Judged by Yahweh. Thanks

 

[Sophrosyne]

Really! You don't follow the Ten Commandments? Do you love God and love others? You probably follow at least nine of them if you do because that's what you've been taught to do but in time you will love God with all your heart, soul and strength.

If I'm not keeping the Sabbath I'm not following the 10 commandments. In love one one another and God is be be justified by God such that we are "seen" as not breaking any of the Law without ever keeping it. That's right.... WITHOUT KEEPING IT.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Don't leave out the critical facts......
Eph 2:14
¶ For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Eph 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

If your commentary contradicts the scriptures, you'll never stop talking noise.

This is common practice of SDA/SDA supporters here, to cherry pick scriptures out of context to destroy their meaning entirely.
They are front and center practicing Eisegis.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Is that how you would also dismiss blasphemy against the name of God? The fact that Lev 18 does not list this as a cause for pagan-nation destruction?? really??

The comment made by ANOTHER poster.... NOT YOU, was equating the 10 commandments were valid upon EVERYONE upon which I said NO. I proved this was true by showing God punished Israel for breaking the Sabbath and NOT those nations who were NOT of Israel... either prove these nations were punished for non Sabbath compliance or admit defeat.

<extraneous spam deleted from quoting>

 

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted by Sophrosyne

If you can't produce nations punished because of breaking the Sabbath then they you have no proof that the 10 commandments apply to them.
​

Is that how you would also dismiss blasphemy against the name of God? The fact that Lev 18 does not list this as a cause for pagan-nation destruction?? really??

In Lev 18 blasphemy against the name of God, worshiping idols, coveting, stealing, lying, dishonoring parents, Sabbath breaking are not listed for the pagan nations as getting their nation wiped off the planet.

But they do have a number of sins that are counted against their entire nation.

Acts 17:30 "having overlooked times of ignorance God is now calling all mankind everywhere to repent"

Some might imagine that this Lev 18 list means that God did not regard blasphemy against the name of God, worshiping idols, coveting, stealing, lying, dishonoring parents .. as sins but I would differ with those who draw that conclusion just because they are trying to find a way around the 4th commandment.

And here are one or two other Christian groups/source-documents that share that view.

The "Baptist Confession of Faith"
The "Westminster Confession of Faith"
The Catholic Catechism
D.L. Moody
R.C Sproul
Andy Stanley
Thomas Watson
Seventh-day Baptists
Seventh-day Adventists


Originally Posted by Sophrosyne

Let's face it the Sabbath was only for Israel to keep and never commanded of anyone BUT Israel
​

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23.

"The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27

"There REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4.

"Worship Him who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" Rev 14:7.

"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19.

And of course the non-Jews are KEEPING Sabbath in Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18, And Isaiah 56:6

The comment made by ANOTHER poster.... NOT YOU, was equating the 10 commandments were valid upon EVERYONE upon which I said NO. I proved this was true by showing God punished Israel for breaking the Sabbath and NOT those nations who were NOT of Israel... either prove these nations were punished for non Sabbath compliance or admit defeat.

As I stated -

In Lev 18 blasphemy against the name of God, worshiping idols, coveting, stealing, lying, dishonoring parents, Sabbath breaking are not listed for the pagan nations as getting their nation wiped off the planet.

No one I know of claims that Blasphemy is ok because God did not list it as a sin for which he would destroy pagan nations.

You are saying that if God does not wipe out pagan nations for Sabbath breaking, blasphemy, dishonoring parents, lying then these sins must not apply to non-Christians.

How is it that you are making your case based on what sins non-Christians can be held accountable for - when we all know that Christians are condemned by God for blasphemy against the name of God, worshiping idols, coveting, stealing, lying, dishonoring parents... etc and when a non-Christian comes to Christ confession and repentance for these very things is a necessary part.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Sophrosyne]

Blasphemy isn't the point I made stop evading my point for your own pet points and stop filling your posts with so much garbage that is irrelevant to the debate that I have to sift through a dumpster of your pet doctrinal beliefs to find where you even replied (somewhat) to what I said.
My point again.... NO nation other than Israel was EVER punished on account of compliance related to the Sabbath...... NONE, which makes the Sabbath the sole property of Israel ALONE.

Refute this point or I will ignore your replies made to me.

 

[BobRyan]

Blasphemy isn't the point I made

You were using a broad brush to paint in your efforts to avoid one of the commandments you swept an entire host of them out the window. I was simply pointing out that if you want to go after one of the commandments but not the other - you need some sort of argument that does that.

My point again.... NO nation other than Israel was EVER punished on account of compliance related to the Sabbath

My point again - that broad brush argument is true of a whole host of commands in scripture that Christians today would be appalled at rejecting base such a flimsy idea - even you would oppose tossing out those commands of scripture on the basis you are suggesting.

To make a compelling point in that regard - you need an argument that just negates the Sabbath and not a whole host of scripture where even you do not agree with tossing that part of the Bible out the window.

A more focused less self-conflicting argument on your part is only going to help the case you are making so it is not as though I am suggesting an idea that would be bad for the argument you want to make.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[isleof]

The ten commandments are to love thy neighbor as thyself and love God. Im suspecting many "Christian" icons will be changed if they are claiming to hate the ten commandments and be a Christian. At least those that aren't lying to themselves.

 

[Sophrosyne]

You were using a broad brush to paint in your efforts to avoid one of the commandments you swept an entire host of them out the window. I was simply pointing out that if you want to go after one of the commandments but not the other - you need some sort of argument that does that.

Nonsense, my point is not a broad brush at all I chose a specific commandment of the 10 and showed it wasn't being enforced which in effects makes at best 9 commandments being perhaps enforced which invalidates the 10 commandments as the rule being applied to those outside of Israel.

My point again - that broad brush argument is true of a whole host of commands in scripture that Christians today would be appalled at rejecting base such a flimsy idea - even you would oppose tossing out those commands of scripture on the basis you are suggesting.

To make a compelling point in that regard - you need an argument that just negates the Sabbath and not a whole host of scripture where even you do not agree with tossing that part of the Bible out the window.

A more focused less self-conflicting argument on your part is only going to help the case you are making so it is not as though I am suggesting an idea that would be bad for the argument you want to make.

in Christ,

Bob

Show me where the non Israeli nations were punished or were seen as wicked because they refused to keep the Sabbath. If you cannot do so then you only have 9 commandments at best upon them..... NOT 10.

 

[Sophrosyne]

The ten commandments are to love thy neighbor as thyself and love God. Im suspecting many "Christian" icons will be changed if they are claiming to hate the ten commandments and be a Christian.

No.... love they neighbor and love God doesn't just fulfill the 10 commandments it fulfills ALL of the Mosaic Law......which INCLUDES the 10 commandments. Christians are NOT obligated to the Mosaic Law and thus to them neither do they love or hate it because to them it is just a part of history not doctrinal for them.