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Just click on a faith icon that has SDA on it.I don't know what SDA is; instead of looking it up I thought you might just tell me (not too curious though, if you don't want to, that's fine; I can get enough from context and they don't seem like people I would be in much agreement with anyway). From what I have learned, a former is someone who forms something, could be anything, or the first of two options as opposed to latter; I'm not quite sure how it means someone who has left a church.
A legalist is one who requires something specifically in regard to behavior usually applied to salvation.I attend an RPCna (Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America) Church. Just giving my opinion. I get this impression that some people think following the law (or rather, wanting to follow it, attempting to) makes you a legalist. I feel that some people might not understand that it depends on what your motive is for wanting to do so (though probably there would be some who disagree with that).
Exactly. Now pay attention to what is being said here in the forums.Yet my opinion is that legalists are only those who think that attempting to perform the law--for no one can keep it perfectly--will enable them to have eternal communion with God. I personally lean toward the idea that if one were to perfectly keep the law this would gain them salvation, yet no one is able to do this. The only hang up I have with this is original sin--so even if someone were to perfectly obey the law from the time they were born, it still may not be enough to merit them eternal communion with God due to original sin. I don't quite understand the philosophy of legalists since they are trying to perform something which isn't possible.
Which are....Of the Christian, nothing more or less than what He requires of all, that we perfectly conform to His commandments.
The construct that some here have declared war on the Ten Commandments is entirely your doing. No pro grace person has done what you suggest we're doing. This has been shown to you with supporting Bible passages you simply twist or throw out.Here is what Martin Luther said about the TEN Commandments -
Those who declare war on God's TEN Commandments find no sympathy in Luther's writings for that sort of solution. He condemns it.
And as we see in the section above even Victor's reach for Luther is not helping with the 'toss the Ten Commandments under the bus' solution that some would have proposed.
I simply point out that Luther rejects the idea of dumping the TEN Commandments when he quotes Ex 20:6 as the condemning statement for those who would do such a thing. Since you are the one bringing Luther into this - I thought it would be of interest.
I certainly find it "instructive" that your own strategy for dealing with the issue is condemned by the source you bring up.
Just not in real life.
you seem to suppose that when you have imagined something we all see the same vision. I find your logic "illusive" at that point.
Here again you offer a form of fiction as your argument. I merely point out by quoting verbatim Luther's comment on the subject of the "TEN Commandments" -- he does not trash them in his conclusion but rather claims they are applicable to the saints still today.
I have stated repeatedly that your sunday-sources affirm the TEN Commandments as still applicable to the saints but they attempt to bend/edit them to suit their traditions.
My point is that at least they knew enough not to be at war with them and declare that they were simply ignoring them.
Here again - stating the obvious.
It just means "you find them unreliable" because they are sunday-sources well known, well accepted that condemn your idea of trashing God's Ten Commandments.
I grant you that I would have expected you to find their statements "inconvenient" because you would much prefer to "imagine" that only SDAs hold to this view of not abolishing God's Ten Commandments or of admitting to the Sabbath commandment applicable to all mankind starting in Eden.
I think that is pretty obvious.
My entire point is that the fact that your own sunday-sources complain about the methods you are using -- is at least a "sign" for the objective unbiased readers.
in Christ,
Bob
I have not argued that in "real life" however.
Not sure what you are envisioning for us - perhaps a future event??
in Christ,
Bob
That's an unsupportable opinion. No one here is opposed to the Commandments of God. The deal at best is you claim the Christian is obligated to a covenant that has no jurisdiction. The Christian isn't an Israelite nor do we become part of Israel in some way. There aren't any Jews nor Greeks (Gentiles) In Christ Jesus according to Gal 3:28.You may have read this post on page 9 of this thread -- This is the typical sort of thing that an SDA would post - so a number of people here opposed to the Commandments of God here will not like it.
But you do ignore some of the 4th commandment, which means you actually don't keep it. I'm talking specifically about v 11.The "supposed challenge" of being able to "ignore details" in both the Bible and even your own Sunday sources -- has never been something I have challenged you to do - nor have I doubted your ability in that regard.
I freely admit that you are quite capable in that regard - but if you expect all new posters that come to this thread to turn the same blind eye to the Bible texts listed regarding the Law of God and even to your own Sunday-Sources as they condemn your model of tossing the Law of God under a bus - to solve your issues with it - then I think the data does not show support for such speculation.
Still each one has free will - each can decide on their own --
But I do give you credit for making up a line about SDAs known for ignoring the Ten Commandments - that I have yet to find objective Bible students on this forum signing up for.
You may need to pursue that one with some actual data.
in Christ,
Bob
But you do ignore some of the 4th commandment, which means you actually don't keep it. I'm talking specifically about v 11.
That's an unsupportable opinion. No one here is opposed to the Commandments of God.
The law (Old Covenant) was never given to the world (Gentile)
Nothing. And you know full well why I don't keep the 7th day Sabbath. It isn't the RCC BTW.What part of Ex 20:11 makes you reject God's commandment?
in Christ,
Bob
Did I say something wrong? Beats me where did I say I forsook grace in favor of the law. Would you mind pointing that out, please.That is a real change. What has happened since I was here last?
Until you read Is 66:23.
Until you read Isaiah 56.
Until you read Mark 2:27
Points so obvious that many Sunday Sources get this Bible detail and admit it to the world.
in Christ,
Bob
Great, I might start a thread for the issue.I think the "Keep them or break" them subject might need to proceed on to the "Bend them or leave them as they are" thread. Will bump that one.
in Christ,
Bob
The Good News is I don't have to worry with them at all according to the Gospel not forgetting the prophets.Almost all threads on this section of the board are in the form of 'War against God's Ten Commandments --- or keep them".
But the good news is that there is another thread - about "Bend the Ten Commandments or keep them".
keep the spirit of every one of them.
If rest and worship are the main points of keeping the Sabbath then one can keep it in the spirit of the law on Sunday. Remember its the spirit of the law and not the actual law.Yes indeed.
This thread is about a specific point Progmonk and I focused in his 1689 BCF thread.
in Christ,
Bob
Will the obsolescence of the 10 Commandments by the New Covenant result in lawlessness and Anarchy as the Sabbatarians hysterically and dishonestly insinuate, with their absolutely-deceitful slogan "War against the Ten Commandments?"
Hardly.
Rest assured that most (with the exception of the Sabbath) of the Ten Commandments are alive and well, in one form or another in the civil and criminal legal systems throughout the United States. There is NO danger whatsoever that Christianity's embrace of the New Covenant is going to result in the abandonment of the basic principles contained within the Ten commandments. And your legal jeopardy in the modern court system will be assured irregardless of your views on the Ten Commandments if you go ahead and murder, commit false witness, Adultery, theft or any of the rest of the prohibited actions. Virtually every court in the United States enforces the Commandment against murder found in the Decalogue: They are more than happy and willing to enforce one or more of the 80,000 some laws against Homicide contained in Federal, State or local statutes. Should you choose to commit Adultery, there are specific criminal and civil codes that will rush into play, making your day in divorce court extremely expensive and painful. Should you choose to steal, there are about 500,000 various laws throughout the United States that will make you regret your behavior very quickly. Additionally, there are literally millions more laws that prohibit many forms of immoral activity left surprisingly unmentioned by the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments, by omission, ALLOW and PERMIT thousands of types of behavior that are prohibited or discouraged by Christianity.
As a Christian, the fact that the Ten Commandments are no longer binding on you doesn't get you particularly far in the real world: there are plenty of US Laws covering all of the same offenses, and then some. The only REAL issue is whether the Jewish Sabbath still applies, and Christianity has a seamless 2,000 year history of denouncing Sabbath Keeping as an anti-Christian heresy. Sabbatarianism is simply just reinvention of several brands of old heresies all dressed up and modernized with new multi-media presentations.
So for Sabbatarians to issue their general ignorant and deceitful smear about "being at war against the Ten Commandments" is just demagoguery of the lowest and most dishonest kind.
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