God's TEN commandments: Bend or Edit them?

[from scratch]

If I understand him right, I think he meant that the Ten Commandments of the Law of Moses still valid and active even today, and I assume and so in the future. If he meant that, he is absolutely right, because Ten Commandments is a basic Law, very much like constitution, describing the basic morality and decent behavior to obey.

Same morality of Ten Commandments and Jesus Christ also teach too, and encouraged to follow it practically on all His speeches and sermons. Ten Commandments can be described as the spiritual essence and spiritual principals of entire Law of Moses, on which all commandments of the Law of Moses are based upon, and so they are all relevant, applicable, important, and significant for today and in for the future as well.

Christ by His Sacrifice on the cross made the physical rituals of the Law of Moses obsolete, but the spiritual commandments and statutes of the Law of Moses He kept intact, and they will remain active and useful forever, because they are based on the spirituality and morality of the GOD Himself.

And for that matter, it is practically no difference between spiritual statutes of the Law of Moses and the Gospel of Christ, because Jesus based all His teachings and speeches on the basis of these spiritual commandments of the Law of Moses and nothing else.

So today, we actually following not the Jesus’ “New Testament”, which is completely wrong name for the Gospel of Christ, but the same spiritual Laws of Moses based on the Ten Commandments, which Jesus Christ introduced to us in His Message of the Good News, in order to bring us into purely spiritual worship of GOD without any physical rituals and physical traditions of the Law of Moses, all of which Jesus converted into spiritual entities.

No. His sticking point is the amended Sabbath commandment must be kept in order to possess salvation.

 

[Sophrosyne]

No. His sticking point is the amended Sabbath commandment must be kept in order to possess salvation.

Yup the watered down "less holy" Sabbath they keep would have Jews just shaking their heads at them for sure.

 

[LarryP2]

Yup the watered down "less holy" Sabbath they keep would have Jews just shaking their heads at them for sure.

Are you referring to the Americanized and Anodyne "Disneyfied-cultural-experience," "Cheez-whiz-on-Wonder-Bread;" "Doritos-are-gourmet-Mexican-Food;" "Pizza-Hut-Is-an-Italian-Restaurant" Fake "Sabbath" experience they feel so self-righteous about?

They accuse Christians of "peddling Cheap Grace."

When Adventists are peddling "Cheap Works."

 

[from scratch]

Are you referring to the Americanized and Anodyne "Disneyfied-cultural-experience," "Cheez-whiz-on-Wonder-Bread;" "Doritos-are-gourmet-Mexican-Food;" "Pizza-Hut-Is-an-Italian-Restaurant" Fake "Sabbath" experience they feel so self-righteous about?

They accuse Christians of "peddling Cheap Grace."

When Adventists are peddling "Cheap Works."

 

[Sophrosyne]

Are you referring to the Americanized and Anodyne "Disneyfied-cultural-experience," "Cheez-whiz-on-Wonder-Bread;" "Doritos-are-gourmet-Mexican-Food;" "Pizza-Hut-Is-an-Italian-Restaurant" Fake "Sabbath" experience they feel so self-righteous about?

They accuse Christians of "peddling Cheap Grace."

When Adventists are peddling "Cheap Works."

or "Cheap Law"

 

[LarryP2]

or "Cheap Law"

Or "Cafeteria Law." Keeping those parts of it that have a subjective thrill involved, without too much personal bother. Particularly those parts that are conducive to preening and gloating Pharisaic self-righteousness, while almost exerting no effort. Kind of like religious "slumming."

Yet to be fair, the Pharisees were made out of much sterner material: Fastidiously counting out Tithe to the last seed. Visiting the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, you are awestruck at the grim and grizzly Jewish sacrificial altar,which had ditches for the massive amounts of blood that flowed while REALLY "Keeping" the Sabbath "Holy." The stone floors are permanently blood-stained, 2,000 years later. There are obvious arterial sprays staining the floor, from panicked animals that had their jugular veins sliced open. Saturday wasn't ".....in the park, I think it was the Fourth Of July." It was more like the kill floor at the Amour meat packing plant.

Happy Sabbath!

And you know the Levitical High Priest that is a mandatory Adjunct to "Keeping the Sabbath Holy?" Those bells on their Robes were so the other Priests could tell when they were instantly struck dead in the Holy of Holies. They tied a rope around the ankle of the High Priest, so when the bells stopped ringing, they could yank his fresh corpse back out to safe ground, and not risk their own lives by entering the Holy of Holies to retrieve it. Nowadays, the job of High Priest would be classified as an extremely high risk occupation.

Lots of vain and unctuous modern-day "Sabbath Keepers" would be converted INSTANTLY to quivering and grateful Sunday worship, when faced with the prospect of a grinning Rabbi and the dull circumcision knife. And no ibuprofen, either.

The Apostles knew good and well that was EXACTLY what was required to keep the Sabbath "Holy." Acts 15 fairly reeks with that comprehension.

Nowadays, you can keep the Ten Commandments - especially the Sabbath - perfectly by snoozing away on your Lazy-Boy recliner, burping up the potluck green bean casserole overdose.

Who would have thunk that "Take up this Cross and Follow Me" would be so effortless?

 

[alex2165]

If this is the case, then I think that the Sabbath is the universal holiday and should be observed by all Christians.

GOD Himself blessed and sanctified 7th Day long before the Law of Moses. And when the Law of Moses came, GOD included Sabbath in it. Jesus also observed Sabbath and so His disciples, as well as all early Christians.

Isaiah 66.23
23“On every New Moon Festival and every Sabbath people of every nation will come to worship Me here in Jerusalem.”

This verse does not relate to the past but to the future, all the way to the second coming of Christ. And this means that now we all live under Sabbath commandment. If Sabbath will be observed in the future, why not it should be neglected today?

Law prescribes that on the Sabbath Day no work shall be done, and the holy congregation shall be assembled on this holy Day.

But it does not mean that the Sunday worship is abolished, we can worship GOD and on Sunday as we always do, but the main and the most important worship of GOD shall be done on Saturday.

Actually we can worship GOD on any day of the week, doesn’t matter, but the Sabbath is a must Day to observe.

Concerning Ten Commandments, all of them are still very relevant and important. On the Ten Commandments entire Law of GOD is built upon, and described in all its details in the Books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Entire Gospel of Christ based on the Ten Commandments, and He constantly quoted statutes from the Law of Moses in order to remind Jews about importance of spirituality of the Law and not the physical rituals of the Law.

And there is no any other law beside the GOD’S Law.

About salvation, the Sabbath does not provide salvation, as well as all other commandments of GOD, they are mostly commandment presenting certain symbolism of great events in the history of human kind, and also serve as respect of obedience toward GOD and His Son. But salvation as such only comes through the Blood of Christ.

So the smart way to do, is to observe all necessary commandments of GOD, in order to be blessed and have good life on Earth, and later to enter His Heavenly Kingdom.

 

[Sophrosyne]

So the smart way to do, is to observe all necessary commandments of GOD, in order to be blessed and have good life on Earth, and later to enter His Heavenly Kingdom.

The smart thing to do is to love God and your neighbor and then all the Law is considered kept by God. The stupid thing to do is to pretend to keep the Law by keeping just a few of the commandments and thinking it will impress God when James himself said if you break even one of them you've broken them all. It is all or nothing when it comes to keeping commandments that are related to the Mosaic Law including the Sabbath.
Fools think they can keep them, the smart person accepts Jesus kept them all and our trust in him has us blameless when it comes to the Law.

 

[LarryP2]

]Actually we can worship GOD on any day of the week, doesn’t matter, but the Sabbath is a must Day to observe.[/SIZE]

That is an opinion that was unequivocally-rejected at the Council of Jerusalem, by the first Century Didache, by Colossians 2:13-18, and by every single Church Father of the First and Second Century. It was universally condemned as the "Judaizing" heresy in the First Century, and then harshly condemned again when it morphed into the hideous Ebionite heresy in the Second Century.

Keeping the Sabbath is completely incompatible with the Gospel. If you keep the Sabbath, you are saying that Christ never happened: St. Ignatius of Antioch said it well in his Epistle to the Magnesiums. If you keep the Sabbath, you do not understand the Gospel.

That has been the position of Christianity for almost 2,000 years.

 

[BobRyan]

If this is the case, then I think that the Sabbath is the universal holiday and should be observed by all Christians.

GOD Himself blessed and sanctified 7th Day long before the Law of Moses. And when the Law of Moses came, GOD included Sabbath in it. Jesus also observed Sabbath and so His disciples, as well as all early Christians.

Isaiah 66.23
23“On every New Moon Festival and every Sabbath people of every nation will come to worship Me here in Jerusalem.”

This verse does not relate to the past but to the future, all the way to the second coming of Christ. And this means that now we all live under Sabbath commandment. If Sabbath will be observed in the future, whyshould (it) be neglected today?

Law prescribes that on the Sabbath Day no work shall be done, and the holy congregation shall be assembled on this holy Day.

But it does not mean that the Sunday worship is abolished, we can worship GOD and on Sunday as we always do, but the main and the most important worship of GOD shall be done on Saturday.

Actually we can worship GOD on any day of the week, doesn’t matter, but the Sabbath is a must Day to observe.

Concerning Ten Commandments, all of them are still very relevant and important. On the Ten Commandments entire Law of GOD is built upon, and described in all its details in the Books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Entire Gospel of Christ based on the Ten Commandments, and He constantly quoted statutes from the Law of Moses in order to remind Jews about importance of spirituality of the Law and not the physical rituals of the Law.

And there is no any other law beside the GOD’S Law.

About salvation, the Sabbath does not provide salvation, as well as all other commandments of GOD, they are mostly commandment presenting certain symbolism of great events in the history of human kind, and also serve as respect of obedience toward GOD and His Son. But salvation as such only comes through the Blood of Christ.

So the smart way to do, is to observe all necessary commandments of GOD, in order to be blessed and have good life on Earth, and later to enter His Heavenly Kingdom.

Even the BCF would agree with most of what you say - but they would insist that the 4th commandment is to be "bent" after the cross to point to week-day-1.


Which gets us back to the subject of this thread - and the BCF and the TEN Commandments.
-- #2 #67

in the #2 link - I show 7 points that Confessions like the Baptist Confession of Faith and also the Westminster Confession of Faith appear to make -- 6 of which agree with what you have said above.

All 7 points are opposed by those here who are at war with God's Ten commandments.

As we have seen on this thread - D.L. Moody was at odds with those who declare themselves to be at war with God's TEN commandments.

#60


in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

If I understand him right, I think he meant that the Ten Commandments of the Law of Moses still valid and active even today, and I assume and so in the future.

That is true.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Hi Bob:
Not completely sure what your stand is, or what you're advocating, or if you're just looking for what folks think on the subject.

My personal Christian journey was broken up a bit by huge swaths of Buddhism and various new age time wasting idealist groups/religions/cults, which it has taken some time to get out of my head. But looking back, my Christian faith journey, minus all the other jazz, began with the Lutherans, moved to the Southern Baptists, then the Methodists, and finally the Holy Catholic Church. As far as I can tell and remember from the Lutherans, Baptists, and Methodists, they all taught and incorporated the 10 commandments pretty up front in their theology. And we definitely do in the Catholic Church. It forms the springboard for the morality section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Indeed. If you notice in my signature line I point to many of those groups including the Catholic church - as having statements strongly affirming the TEN Commandments as the still-valid moral law of God.

I agree with them on 6 of the 7 basic points that are made in places like section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith.

Those here at war with God's Ten Commandments - will of course differ with these sources on all 7 points made in favor of the TEN Commandments.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Even the BCF would agree with most of what you say - but they would insist that the 4th commandment is to be "bent" after the cross to point to week-day-1.


Which gets us back to the subject of this thread - and the BCF and the TEN Commandments.
-- #2 #67

in the #2 link - I show 7 points that Confessions like the Baptist Confession of Faith and also the Westminster Confession of Faith appear to make -- 6 of which agree with what you have said above.

All 7 points are opposed by those here who are at war with God's Ten commandments.


As we have seen on this thread - D.L. Moody was at odds with those who declare themselves to be at war with God's TEN commandments.

#60

When you click to see the 7 points here -- #2) you find this

==============================================


For the sake of "full disclosure" and context - I think we need to list all the details related to this subject from the BCF.

[FONT=&quot]1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross[FONT=&quot].


I don't claim to agree with all 7 of the points that the BCF is making - only 6 out of the 7 do I agree with.

But there are many on this board who are at war with all 7.

=======================================
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

That is an opinion that was unequivocally-rejected at the Council of Jerusalem, by the first Century Didache, .

There is no such thing as a first century Didache.

 

[BobRyan]

No. His sticking point is the amended Sabbath commandment must be kept in order to possess salvation.

No his sticking point is that you can't amend the Sabbath Commandment.

(All this time and still not sure what the posts are about??)

 

[LarryP2]

No his sticking point is that you can't amend the Sabbath Commandment.

Once again, by citing the authorities that you do, you are being blatantly deceitful. ALL of the sources that you cite in fact DO agree that the "Sabbath Commandment" was "amended." ALL of them agree that Christians should keep Sunday as the Sabbath Day, which you have repeatedly claimed nothing in the Bible supports.

You cannot piously hide behind the Ten Commandments or your alleged "sources" to dishonestly and deceitfully peddle your discredited Ebionite and Judaizing heresy.

ALL of your sources agree: Christianity has universally denounced the Ebionite heresy for 2,000 years. All of these Sabbath spam posts do is divert attention away from the central event of Christianity: The Resurrection. Here is how one Baptist denounces any attempt to dishonestly borrow their name to deceitfully promote the Sabbath:

"It is rather interesting that the Lord Jesus arose on the first day of the week. The devil is shrewd. He would be happy if he could get God's people to abolish the Lord's day as a day of worship ... it would be a tremendous victory for him. If I worship on Saturday, so far as I am concerned, I might as well worship Christ on the crucifix. The risen Lord appeared to the disciples on the first day of the week. Why did He not appear on the Sabbath "The same day at evening, being the first day of the week ... came Jesus and stood in the midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you" (John 20:19).

The early disciples of the risen Lord worshiped Him on the first day of the week, and you will search the New Testament in vain for one instance where the New Testament Christians worshiped on the old Jewish Sabbath."
.......
"Seventh Day Adventists deny the resurrection by observing the Sabbath. We come to church on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship Him who "died for our sins, and rose again for our justification." We worship a living Savior, and with thanksgiving, can sing:
"He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!"
If I worship Christ on Saturday I deny that His work is finished, that He is a resurrected, living Savior.
http://www.abaptistvoice.com/English/Articles/Miscelanous/WhyIAmABaptist.htm

It would probably be appropriate and honest to immediately remove all references to Baptists being used to deceitfully support Sabbath Spam threads. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Which is why it won't happen.

 

[from scratch]

There is no such thing as a first century Didache.

Nuttin but mere opinion and worth less.

 

[from scratch]

No his sticking point is that you can't amend the Sabbath Commandment.

(All this time and still not sure what the posts are about??)

So it seems you can and do if I read the forum correctly. Who gave you that authority?

No I fully know what the posts are about. There is this little problem addressing the truth here at CF. Seems its against the rules when someone doesn't like it. I'm forbidden to call a horse by its true colors.

 

[from scratch]

Once again, by citing the authorities that you do, you are being blatantly deceitful. ALL of the sources that you cite in fact DO agree that the "Sabbath Commandment" was "amended." ALL of them agree that Christians should keep Sunday as the Sabbath Day, which you have repeatedly claimed nothing in the Bible supports.

You cannot piously hide behind the Ten Commandments or your alleged "sources" to dishonestly and deceitfully peddle your discredited Ebionite and Judaizing heresy.

ALL of your sources agree: Christianity has universally denounced the Ebionite heresy for 2,000 years. All of these Sabbath spam posts do is divert attention away from the central event of Christianity: The Resurrection. Here is how one Baptist denounces any attempt to dishonestly borrow their name to deceitfully promote the Sabbath:

"It is rather interesting that the Lord Jesus arose on the first day of the week. The devil is shrewd. He would be happy if he could get God's people to abolish the Lord's day as a day of worship ... it would be a tremendous victory for him. If I worship on Saturday, so far as I am concerned, I might as well worship Christ on the crucifix. The risen Lord appeared to the disciples on the first day of the week. Why did He not appear on the Sabbath "The same day at evening, being the first day of the week ... came Jesus and stood in the midst, and said unto them, Peace be unto you" (John 20:19).

The early disciples of the risen Lord worshiped Him on the first day of the week, and you will search the New Testament in vain for one instance where the New Testament Christians worshiped on the old Jewish Sabbath."
.......
"Seventh Day Adventists deny the resurrection by observing the Sabbath. We come to church on Sunday, the Lord's Day, to worship Him who "died for our sins, and rose again for our justification." We worship a living Savior, and with thanksgiving, can sing:
"He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!"
If I worship Christ on Saturday I deny that His work is finished, that He is a resurrected, living Savior.
Why I Am A Baptist And Not A Seventh Day Adventist

It would probably be appropriate and honest to immediately remove all references to Baptists being used to deceitfully support Sabbath Spam threads. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Which is why it won't happen.

Since the SDA claim the Sabbath is required of the Christian, why can't they tell us why there isn't 1 single instance of God (the resurrected Jesus) appearing on the most important day of the week to anyone in the 40 days following His resurrection? I just can't get by God not appearing on the Sabbath to His followers.

 

[LarryP2]

Since the SDA claim the Sabbath is required of the Christian, why can't they tell us why there isn't 1 single instance of God (the resurrected Jesus) appearing on the most important day of the week to anyone in the 40 days following His resurrection? I just can't get by God not appearing on the Sabbath to His followers.

Given the obvious impact of the Resurrection, it would have been downright weird and bizarre for the Apostles to have given one more fleeing thought to the Sabbath. It would have been so obvious that everything that went before was OVER. It obviously took them years to get their minds around what had just happened. Nothing in the Mosaic Law helps to make sense out of that.

About the only thing that is comparable is if Earth is visited by beings from other solar systems someday. There would be the "BEFORE" era when everything was normal. And then "AFTER" era where nothing was normal.

The Resurrection is many magnitudes more earth-shattering than a visit by extra-terrestrials equipped with technology that is light years ahead of ours. In the "AFTER" era, we are teleported to other planets instantly. Sabbath Keeping is like worshiping old-fashioned STOP signs in the era of light-speed teleportation.