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God's TEN commandments: Bend or Edit them?

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So then here is an example of what I mean by "affirm the TEN Commandments" even if one finds that one or two of them need to be "edited" -- but not "downsized".

The groups listed in the OP do it something like this --

=======================================

Here is how one of those sunday keeping sources present full support of the TEN Commandments.

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Since the question is also asked about the "Baptist Confession of Faith" affirmation of the TEN commandments as binding on all saints from Eden to this very day...

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[FONT=&quot]CH Spurgeon[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
“The Perpetuity of the Law of God”
[/FONT]
Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the Baptist Confession of Faith .

Section 19
. The Law of God

  • God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

  • The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

  • Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

  • To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

  • The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

  • Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

  • The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

I have pretty much the same statement from the "Westminster Confession of Faith" for those who prefer that source.
So how many threads are you going to post this in?
 
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F

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In Mark 2:27-28 Christ is "Lord of the Sabbath"

In Isaiah 58 The Sabbath is "The Holy Day of the Lord".

In Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before me to worship"

So then in Rev 1 when "The LORD's day" is mentioned is it wise to ignore all the scripture pointing to that as the 4th commandment - and suppose "week-day-1" in its place??

Not based on the Bible.

There are two specific places where "week-day-1" is used specifically in the NT where no attempt is made to associate it with "The Lords day" one is in 1Cor 16:2 and the other is in Acts 20 where there may well have been some sort of gathering for worship - the perfect place to associate worship with "week-day-1 called the Lord's Day" -- instead we have just "week day 1".

That is instructive.

in Christ,

Bob

Have you addressed the from...to meaning on yet as I've requested? I've been busy.
 
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F

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This thread is just for those who already read the "Ten Commandments: Break them or keep them?" thread and decided that God's Ten Commandments are still valid.

The list of organizations given at the top in the OP explains who these might be.

If the intent is to balk or complain about the Ten Commandments - that is what the other thread linked to in the OP is all about.

in Christ,

Bob
Then you should've put it on a different board here at CF.
 
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This thread is just for those who already read the "Ten Commandments: Break them or keep them?" thread and decided that God's Ten Commandments are still valid.

The list of organizations given at the top in the OP explains who these might be.

If the intent is to balk or complain about the Ten Commandments - that is what the other thread linked to in the OP is all about.

in Christ,

Bob
So who's balking or complaining about the Ten Commandments?
 
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Sophrosyne

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This thread is just for those who already read the "Ten Commandments: Break them or keep them?" thread and decided that God's Ten Commandments are still valid.

The list of organizations given at the top in the OP explains who these might be.

If the intent is to balk or complain about the Ten Commandments - that is what the other thread linked to in the OP is all about.

in Christ,

Bob
Then why did you quote my post from the other thread in this thread and reply to it?
 
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It seems that they added the Title "Lord's Day" to Sabbath as in Isaiah 58 and as in Mark 2:27-28 "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath"

What would be more shocking is if they had not "noticed" that "week day 1" was being called "The Lord's Day" and that the SEVENTH day Sabbath ended - never once pointing that out in actual scripture - yet spending TONS of time pointing out that circumcision of gentiles was not needed.

in Christ,

Bob
That fact is pointed out here in GT often. My advice would be to read Acts for yourself. As if that would make a difference. Its the same as quoted here in GT as it reads in my Bible.
 
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Cribstyl

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There is a thread titled -

God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?
http://www.christianforums.com/t7802097/

And there we find a number of Bible texts proving the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God - still binding on all the saints from Eden to this very day.

And not for the lost to keep - but rather something that only the saved saints could possibly keep --



Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Paul makes the point that the lost would be at war with the Law of God - but the saints under the New Covenant condition of the Law written on the heart - would not.


What are your thoughts?

in Christ,

Bob
You say; there is a number of scriptures to support your claims. You're also implying that the ten commandment was binding from Eden and is in force today. You presented no scriptures for claims about law given at creation.

Secondly, Romans 8 does not support your implication, that the law of God is the ten commandments.
Truth is, the law of sin and death is the law of the flesh, which are the ten commandments.
Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
 
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BobRyan

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So how many threads are you going to post this in?

The "details" are being ignored each time someone wants to "imagine" that the only people that support the TEN Commandments as the MORAL Law of God written on the heart - and the Sabbath starting in Eden are those who keep the 4th commandment on the SEVENTH day.

No matter how many times I post this proof that the wild assumption they make is simply false - they ignore the actual evidence and repeat their already-debunked idea. So then - the "answer" to that fully debunked claim keeps getting posted.

And of course it is the heart-and-soul of this particular thread because the POV in that quote - is the starting point.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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You say; there is a number of scriptures to support your claims. You're also implying that the ten commandment was binding from Eden and is in force today. You presented no scriptures for claims about law given at creation.

As do all the sources I listed starting with the "Baptist Confession of Faith".

And the reason all of them do that - is seen here:

1. "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not Mankind MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 speaking of the "making" of BOTH in Genesis 1-2.

2. Romans 4 "Where there is no LAW neither is there violation"

3. "Adam SINNED". Romans 5

4. "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

No wonder all those sources listed - get this point easily.

Paul quotes form the TEN commandments in Romans 7, Romans 13, Eph 6:1-2 as does Christ in Mark 7:6-13 when He calls them the "WORD of God" and the "Commandment of God".

Why ignore Paul and Christ?

The attack-or-defend the Ten Commandments thread - is the one titled "Keep them or Break them" - this thread is specifically for those who accept the TEN commandments like the sources I listed but want to "BEND" this one or that one for Sunday Keeping or image worship.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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When we get to those who affirm the TEN Commandments - and yet want to retain Sunday-keeping as a form of the 4th commandment - we have gotten to the subject of this thread.

That is you putting words in people's mouths. None of the people you cited participate here.

1. Read the actual words in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" before you go out on that limb.

2. Hint - many many people actually think C.H. Spurgeon was right - as it turns out. That is the real world. I suspect we both know it.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Sophrosyne

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When we get to those who affirm the TEN Commandments - and yet want to retain Sunday-keeping as a form of the 4th commandment - we have gotten to the subject of this thread.



1. Read the actual words in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" before you go out on that limb.

2. Hint - many many people actually think C.H. Spurgeon was right - as it turns out. That is the real world. I suspect we both know it.

in Christ,

Bob
I think you have a strange idea that there is some audience that is on the fence that you can persuade here..... you should know that only 8 people including yourself are reading this thread right now and 9 people have posted in it so one has even quit reading it.
 
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F

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As do all the sources I listed starting with the "Baptist Confession of Faith".

And the reason all of them do that - is seen here:

1. "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not Mankind MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 speaking of the "making" of BOTH in Genesis 1-2.

2. Romans 4 "Where there is no LAW neither is there violation"

3. "Adam SINNED". Romans 5

4. "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

No wonder all those sources listed - get this point easily.

Paul quotes form the TEN commandments in Romans 7, Romans 13, Eph 6:1-2 as does Christ in Mark 7:6-13 when He calls them the "WORD of God" and the "Commandment of God".

Why ignore Paul and Christ?

The attack-or-defend the Ten Commandments thread - is the one titled "Keep them or Break them" - this thread is specifically for those who accept the TEN commandments like the sources I listed but want to "BEND" this one or that one for Sunday Keeping or image worship.

in Christ,

Bob
So the Bible is still being misused. What's new Solomon said nothing.
 
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When we get to those who affirm the TEN Commandments - and yet want to retain Sunday-keeping as a form of the 4th commandment - we have gotten to the subject of this thread.



1. Read the actual words in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" before you go out on that limb.

2. Hint - many many people actually think C.H. Spurgeon was right - as it turns out. That is the real world. I suspect we both know it.

in Christ,

Bob
I'll choose to stand by my posts in which I already addressed you processionary caterpillar march.
 
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BobRyan

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I think you have a strange idea that there is some audience that is on the fence .

I believe that unbiased objective Bible students "exist" - some here may deny that idea - but I have found them to exist.

So when the writings of Paul are suggested - they take time to actually read - -

Paul affirms the Ten Commandments (see point 5 below) AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.

Proof of that is here -

[FONT=&quot]1. Paul never commands gentiles to "Love God WITH ALL your heart".
2. Paul never commands gentiles "not to take God's name in vain"
3. Paul never commands gentiles to ignore the writings of Moses.
4. Paul DOES tell gentiles that Moses' writings are still authoritative scripture in 1Cor 9:8-9 and 1Tim 5:18 and binding as being "Law" and as being "scripture".
5. Paul quotes from Moses and the TEN Commandments Eph 6:2. Full 5th commandment
6. Paul DOES teach that there remains therefore a "Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4.
7. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19
8. Paul does tell gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justifIED... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Rom 2:13-16
9. Paul DOES ask that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Rom 3:31
10. Paul DOES tell gentiles that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the LAw of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:6-8
11. Paul DOES tell gentiles that "The Law" is in fact "The LAW of Moses" and is to be used for testing doctrine 1Cor 9:8-9
12. Paul DOES tell gentiles that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2Tim 3:16
[/FONT]
 
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BobRyan

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You presented no scriptures for claims about law given at creation.

BobRyan said:
As do all the sources I listed starting with the "Baptist Confession of Faith".

And the reason all of them do that - is seen here:

1. "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not Mankind MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27 speaking of the "making" of BOTH in Genesis 1-2.

2. Romans 4 "Where there is no LAW neither is there violation"

3. "Adam SINNED". Romans 5

4. "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

No wonder all those sources listed - get this point easily.

Paul quotes form the TEN commandments in Romans 7, Romans 13, Eph 6:1-2 as does Christ in Mark 7:6-13 when He calls them the "WORD of God" and the "Commandment of God".

Why ignore Paul and Christ?

So the Bible is still being misused. .

The fact that these Bible texts do not line up with your preferences is not proof that the Bible has been misused.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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There is a thread titled -

God's TEN Commandments: Keep them? or break them?
http://www.christianforums.com/t7802097/

And there we find a number of Bible texts proving the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God - still binding on all the saints from Eden to this very day.

And not for the lost to keep - but rather something that only the saved saints could possibly keep --



Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Paul makes the point that the lost would be at war with the Law of God - but the saints under the New Covenant condition of the Law written on the heart - would not.


What are your thoughts?


You say; there is a number of scriptures to support your claims. You're also implying that the ten commandment was binding from Eden and is in force today.

As we see in Mark 2:27 where the making of the Sabbath and the making of Mankind (as we see in Genesis 1 and 2) is pointed out by Christ "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind" speaking of the Making of Both in that verse.

1John 3:4 "SIN is transgression of the LAW"

Romans 5 - "Adam SINNED" in Eden.

No wonder the list of sunday keeping sources I keep quoting - "notice" this Bible "detail". It is soo easy to see.


Secondly, Romans 8 does not support your implication, that the law of God is the ten commandments.

Paul does that in Romans 7, and Romans 13 and Eph 6 -- as has been quoted for you a number of times. Interesting that you are avoiding it.

In Romans 8 Paul merely points out that the lost should be expected to be at war with the Law of God.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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In Mark 2:27-28 Christ is "Lord of the Sabbath"

In Isaiah 58 The Sabbath is "The Holy Day of the Lord".

In Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before me to worship"

So then in Rev 1 when "The LORD's day" is mentioned is it wise to ignore all the scripture pointing to that as the 4th commandment - and suppose "week-day-1" in its place??

Not based on the Bible.

There are two specific places where "week-day-1" is used specifically in the NT where no attempt is made to associate it with "The Lords day" one is in 1Cor 16:2 and the other is in Acts 20 where there may well have been some sort of gathering for worship - the perfect place to associate worship with "week-day-1 called the Lord's Day" -- instead we have just "week day 1".

That is instructive.


Have you addressed the from...to meaning on yet as I've requested? I've been busy.


A number of times. My own church meets from Sabbath to Sabbath but NOT from New Moon to New Moon.

But in Isaiah 66:23 Both cycles will be kept for all eternity by all mankind in the New heavens and New earth.

The point remains.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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