God's Prophetic Clock...

[@@Paul@@]

I originally posted this in the Baptist Forum,,, I'm sure i'll get more opinions here... ​

Part ONE:
I’ve been studying the prophecy of Daniel’s 70 weeks > and trying to figure out WHY there is a “gap”… The bible always provides an explanation; we just have to find it. Here’s what I “think”, I welcome any comments...

First we need to compare how man records time with how God records time. We know God is outside of time, a day to the Lord is like 1000 years AND 1000 years is as a day. Paul’s first speech in Acts records 570 years from the exodus TO the reign of Solomon.

The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness.
(Act 13:17-18 KJV)​

………Paul counts 40 years from the “exodus” to the promised land of Canaan

And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet.
(Act 13:19-20 KJV)​

………Paul counts 450 years from entrance into Canaan until Samuel the prophet.

And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
(Act 13:21 KJV)​

………Then we have Saul reigning for 40 years.

And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
(Act 13:22 KJV)​

………Likewise, we know David reigned for 40 years (and was followed by Solomon).

All that totals up to 570 years from the Exodus to the reign of Solomon. However in 1 Kings we have a different time period mentioned.

1Ki 6:1 And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month Zif, which is the second month, that he began to build the house of the LORD.​

………in the 480th year from the exodus was in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign. So if subtract 3 year (3 years of Solomon’s reign had passed) from 480 that equals 477 years from the Exodus TO the reign of Solomon. Yet Paul recorded this as a 570 year time span; a discrepancy of 93 years.

……………..
Let’s take a step back into the Judges period; where Israel was in and out of captivity.

Therefore the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and he sold them into the hand of Chushanrishathaim king of Mesopotamia: and the children of Israel served Chushanrishathaim eight years.
(Jdg 3:8 KJV)
And he gathered unto him the children of Ammon and Amalek, and went and smote Israel, and possessed the city of palm trees. So the children of Israel served Eglon the king of Moab eighteen years.
(Jdg 3:13-14 KJV)
And the LORD sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, that reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose host was Sisera, which dwelt in Harosheth of the Gentiles. And the children of Israel cried unto the LORD: for he had nine hundred chariots of iron; and twenty years he mightily oppressed the children of Israel.
(Jdg 4:2-3 KJV)
And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years.
(Jdg 6:1 KJV)
And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD delivered them into the hand of the Philistines forty years.
(Jdg 13:1 KJV)​

….oddly, Israel was in captivity and served “other” kings for approx. 93 years, the difference between Paul’s addition and the Lord’s…

So what am I proposing?? God does not count “prophetic time” when His people are captive and unusable… The 490 years prophesied in Daniel does not have to be continuous; In God’s eyes. ……….in the 490th year from when the temple was rebuilt, He will return.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Now, leaving aside any pre-conceived notion of when God's prophetic clock stopped OR started...... take a look at these verses in Daniel.

Dan 9:25-27 KJV
(25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.​

My problem (with common interpretations) has always been, with the explaination of the 7 weeks + 62 weeks in verse 25.

For whatever reason (i'll give my understanding on this in a sec.), God choose to split the first 69 weeks into TWO sections........ 7 weeks + 62 weeks. But yet in verse 26 was have a period of 62 weeks UNTIL the Messiah comes... I see no reason to count the 62 weeks until the Messiah from the original 7th week - simply by the wording. It clearly says "And AFTER" 62 weeks.. as in after the clock starts ticking...

Here are some additional thoughts.

1) there is ALOT that has to happen for ALL prophesy to be fulfilled regarding the second coming. Everything that happened during the Acts has to happen AGAIN (if it wasn't "true" the first time)... i.e. IF God was done with Israel at the cross then all that Joel prophesied which Peter said was happening in Acts 2, has to happen again. - Revelations clearly explains what happens during that 7 years - the entire prophesy of Joel is not found in there (so it must happen prior).

2) We know Elijah must come FIRST to restore all things > from the "raptured" church into a jewish Kingdom ministry. I suppose this could happen during the first 3.5 years, but it seems highly unlikely. It would be restored, to be instantly destroyed.

3) There are already churches set up at the beginning of Revelation. These are kingdom churches whose goal is to overcome and whose prize is to rule and reign with Christ. - As this is not the program of today, a MAJOR change must take place first.​

Hopefully that provoked some thoughts.

Another note: When God FIRST called Abraham, Abram was told to leave his family... But we know He disobeyed and brought his father-in-law. God's prophetic clock STOPPED until Abraham's father-in-law died.... It wasn't until after Lot's death did Abraham receive another revelation from God.

..............You disobey, the clock stops. If Israel is bondage and unusable by God, the clock stops (or doesn't start)...

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.​

...The reason the time period is split was to note the time when Israel was unusable AND to note the time WHEN the clock would start. As I’ve shown in the first post, God does not count prophetic time if Israel is in bondage. Thus, from the command to rebuild UNTIL the clock starts (Israel would be usable by God when they had a Temple), it would be a period of 49years (7 weeks); Then after 434 years (62 weeks) until the messiah was cut-off.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:​

Oddly enough, this fits into the wording of verse 26.. After 62 weeks, He would be cut off… Which would leave 8 weeks (56 years) to be completed.

 

[Terral]

Hi Paul:

Thank you very much for sharing your work with us. I can tell you put some time into it, and your thoughts are presented well. I am one of the members here who actually enjoys reading a nice loong well thought out post. Please allow me to make comment on some of the things you say:

Paul >> 7 weeks + 62 weeks. But yet in verse 26 was have a period of 62 weeks UNTIL the Messiah comes... I see no reason to count the 62 weeks until the Messiah from the original 7th week - simply by the wording. It clearly says "And AFTER" 62 weeks.. as in after the clock starts ticking...

I believe it no coincidence that you are posting this work in the dispensations part of this site. After all, you know people who come here see the different households/administrations of Scripture. Here is the problem with your assumptions above: In order to use the calculations of Daniel, you must recognize this current ‘mystery dispensation’ as a parenthetical period that is not seen by Daniel at all. Daniel did not see this ‘dispensation of God’s grace’ (Eph. 3:2). I know that this dispensation is not a period or epoch. However, Paul makes reference to the ‘fullness of the Gentles’ coming in.

For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved.” Rom. 11:25+26.

He is saying the same thing James is stating in Acts 15:

"Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 'AFTER THESE THINGS I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID . . .” Acts 15:14-16.

Therefore, this 2000 year ‘fullness of the Gentile body of Christ’ time is altering Daniel’s prophecy timeline. The OT prophets were given to see that the Lord God (Jesus Christ) would have a Jewish Bride. Hosea 2:19+20. They could see the marriage supper of Rev. 19:5-10. What they were not given to see is that the Lord God (Lamb) would have a Gentile dominant body full of members who accepted the gospel of Christ’s shed blood. So we are inside the Lamb of Rev.19 at that marriage supper. Therefore, your timeline theory up there has many holes that nobody can begin to address from inside this parenthetical period. The diagram looks something like this:



Law&Prophets/Mess(*Grace Dispensation)**ianic Kingdom Period

The Kingdom was ‘at hand’ when John the Baptist first offered it. Christ said,

"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept {it,} John himself is Elijah who is to come.” Matt. 11:13+14.

The thousand years started . . . tick tock . . . tick tock . . . However, Israel rejected the Kingdom by allowing John to die in prison, crucifying the King, and scattering the Apostles. Enter the Apostle Paul with our current dispensation in Acts 9. The Messianic Kingdom is now held in abeyance on the back burner. When the body of Christ is gathered up (1Thes. 4:17), and the Spirit of Elijah returns to him here on earth, then guess what? . . . tick tock . . . tick tock . . . the Messianic Clock once again begins ticking. Daniel’s prophetic timeline will be accurate if you remove the exact time from that first (* above to the second )**. The (* represents the conversion of Paul, while the )** represents the gathering up of the body in 1Thes. 4:17.

Paul >> Here are some additional thoughts. 1) there is ALOT that has to happen for ALL prophesy to be fulfilled regarding the second coming. Everything that happened during the Acts has to happen AGAIN (if it wasn't "true" the first time)... i.e. IF God was done with Israel at the cross then all that Joel prophesied which Peter said was happening in Acts 2, has to happen again. - Revelations clearly explains what happens during that 7 years - the entire prophesy of Joel is not found in there (so it must happen prior).

Yes, we agree that the events of Acts 2 must occur again. The difference will be that instead of the Holy Spirit coming on a larger group, it will descend first on Elijah only. Then, he will again begin baptizing in the Jordan, and they will instantly receive the Holy Spirit in all the power of Acts 2. But, no, that is not an end time event, Paul. Think about it . . . The restoration of all things means the restoration of the kingdom to Israel. He comes at the start of the Messianic Kingdom. He rebuilds the Temple, and builds the wall around the entire land of Israel. They live in peace for that thousand years that Satan is bound. Then, at the very end, for the last seven years, Satan is loosed and Messiah the prince is cut off. That prince is not Jesus Christ; but David. Christ returns at the ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3).

Paul >> 2) We know Elijah must come FIRST to restore all things > from the "raptured" church into a jewish Kingdom ministry. I suppose this could happen during the first 3.5 years, but it seems highly unlikely. It would be restored, to be instantly destroyed.

Heh. That is correct. Elijah comes right after the time that we are caught up. That event will change the entire world as we know it. Folks will simply disappear into thin air. When all of the true Christians are gone, what is left but natural men? Chaos will rule, and Elijah will bring Israel to become the world power that this earth has never seen. It will be that way for a thousand years, then the end comes; and some will live from the start of the kingdom to the very end.

Paul >> 3) There are already churches set up at the beginning of Revelation. These are kingdom churches whose goal is to overcome and whose prize is to rule and reign with Christ. - As this is not the program of today, a MAJOR change must take place first.

We agree. They may be all ready, but the Spirit of the Holy of Holies is not with them . . . yet. Elijah could already be in the world, and our gathering could be at any time. The events now occurring in the Middle East are not according to Prophecy, as many think. However, the person with wisdom can read the signs of the times by accurately applying the secrets of the mystery. The OT is the spirit (prophecy unclothed) part of Scripture. That is where the prophecies pertaining to Israel are found. The Hebrew letters of the NT are the water part of the equation. The Spirit and water parts are like the heavens and the earth. The true end time prophecies will be fulfilled (Daniel, Matthew 24/ Revelation) in the coming Messianic Kingdom.

There will be no physical Antichrist appearing during our mystery period. Nor can the Kingdom of Israel come under attack as to her Promised Land. After all, she is not even restored yet all the way to the EuphratesRiver as promised (Gen. 15:18). However, this mystery Gentile period is like the soul of the spirit (OT) and the body (Hebrew Epistles). The spirit and the soul overlap and contain similar qualities. Therefore, the end of our period will mimic the end time of the coming Messianic Kingdom. I know this sounds vague and cryptic, but bear with me:


This ordeal with Saddam Hussein in Iraq mirrors the end time events. Remember again that the land he occupies is the eastern portion of the promised land. A king has been deposed from that land, in the same way that Messiah the prince will also. All eyes are on this tiny plot of land in the Middle East, at they will be again at the end of the coming 1000 year Messianic Period. I look for things to truly escalate in the Middle East from here on out. If America ever leaves, then the biggest blood bath of that region in centuries will surely take place. Everyone we put into power will be the enemy of the new regime. And that new ruler/king will make Hussein look like Mr. Rogers. All of the heads falling now represent nothing compared to those to fall at the end of the age. That man will not be the antichrist, but will mimic the actions of the antichrist from 1000 years in the future. Again, this mystery period is the soul part, while the coming Kingdom period is the actual body part of the OT spirit of prophecy.

God bless,

Terral

 

[@@Paul@@]

Thanks for the thoughts Terral,

I was really only trying to prove the 490 years does not have to be continuous AND that there might be more than 7 years left...

One thing i will say i disagree with.. Elijah. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture, But i do believe WE will fulfill the spirit of Elijah on earth (1st witness).

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.​

Kingdom Gentiles are raptured; Israel flees into the wilderness (2nd witness).

I think the prophesy of Elijah could be fulfilled as much as 56 years before the "end of this age".

 

[Tractor1]

Holding to a belief that an understanding of prophecy can not be gained unless it is recognized that God’s purpose for the earth centers around Israel, I agree, to some extent with the conclusion you’ve drawn. However, I believe an explanation for the intervening period of time between the 69th and 70th week to be much less complicated. An intercalary age has interrupted God’s dealings with Israel and the Gentiles and at this point a new divine purpose has been introduced which is the calling out of a heavenly people from among Jew and Gentile both.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[Terral]

Hi Tracy:

Tracy >> Holding to a belief that an understanding of prophecy can not be gained unless it is recognized that God’s purpose for the earth centers around Israel, I agree, to some extent with the conclusion you’ve drawn. However, I believe an explanation for the intervening period of time between the 69th and 70th week to be much less complicated. An intercalary age has interrupted God’s dealings with Israel and the Gentiles and at this point a new divine purpose has been introduced which is the calling out of a heavenly people from among Jew and Gentile both.

We agree, Tracy, but that is what ‘our gospel’ (2Cor. 4:3) is about. This period is veiled, just like our gospel is veiled:

“And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” 2Cor. 4:3+4.

The lives of the members you are talking about are hidden with Christ in God right now.

“For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.” Col. 3:3+4.

God is to glorify these chosen vessels:

“For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.” Rom. 8:18.

These heavenly people you speak of are the future ‘sons of God.’

“For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.” Rom. 8:19.

Creation itself groans in anticipation of our glory, because she is to also be changed according to our glory.

“That the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.” Rom. 8:21.

The only place where we disagree is the ‘new’ aspect in your words. This was God’s purpose all along, even though it remained hidden:

“. . . so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Eph. 3:10+11.

In other words, the good stuff is still ahead of us.

In Christ already,


Terral

 

[Tractor1]

The only place where we disagree is the ‘new’ aspect in your words. This was God’s purpose all along, even though it remained hidden

I know full well that this present age was not an afterthought and that it was in God's overall plan from the beginning, but it is new in the sense that it's different from anything that has gone before or anything that will take place in the future. I took notice of the fact that you used the term parethetical in an earlier post to describe this age, and that useage is incorrect. That particular term sustains some direct or indirect relation to whatever has gone before or that which follows; but this present age purpose isn't so related and is properly termed an intercalation which is formed by introducing a day or period of time into the calendar. This present age is an intercalation into the revealed calendar or program of God.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[@@Paul@@]

Holding to a belief that an understanding of prophecy can not be gained unless it is recognized that God’s purpose for the earth centers around Israel, I agree, to some extent with the conclusion you’ve drawn. However, I believe an explanation for the intervening period of time between the 69th and 70th week to be much less complicated. An intercalary age has interrupted God’s dealings with Israel and the Gentiles and at this point a new divine purpose has been introduced which is the calling out of a heavenly people from among Jew and Gentile both.

In Christ,
Tracey

I completely agree, I just do not think it's between the 69th and 70th week - but that understanding is irrelevant for today...

God chose the members of this calling BEFORE the foundation of the world...

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:​

...which was before He called Abraham.

If people could only understand that God knows what He's doing.

 

[In Christ Forever]

Thanks for the thoughts Terral,

I was really only trying to prove the 490 years does not have to be continuous AND that there might be more than 7 years left...

One thing i will say i disagree with.. Elijah. I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture, But i do believe WE will fulfill the spirit of Elijah on earth (1st witness).

Kingdom Gentiles are raptured; Israel flees into the wilderness (2nd witness).

I have a view I would like to share and of course to you it will look "foolish" but then again, I have seen a lot of "foolish" interpretations of the bible so why not "one more" . I am still working on this revelation, but I have of course have my view of what it is representing as do hundreds of others, so allow me this "foolish" interpretation and see what you think. I already know the "comments" that will be made so this is just for your "enjoyment" for now.

These 7 horns on the "Lamb" "appears to me to become the 7 heads of the Dragon? [7 churches ] God[who is also Christ] does put it into the minds of the 10 kings to utterly destroy the Harlot[reve 17:17].

reve 5:6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
Revelation

12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman[Jacob/Israel?] clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron.And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

If that child caught up to God was Christ, then there would have to be about a 3 year period in here that He preached the gospel, right?

Are these 2 different "women" or women in 2 different time periods? "One of them" appears to turn into the Harlot later in the "wilderness"? I haven't worked on this yet as I just noticed the 2 different expressions of the time period.

reve 12:6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

The Scarlet beast appears to be the same as the "Dragon" and the woman appears to be the woman in chapt 12 but has turned into a Harlot. Still working on this though. Any views?

reve 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast [which was] full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.

reve 17:16 "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 "For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

reve 2:20 "Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

It appears revelation is again bringing these 2 "sisters" together as 1 nation under 1 KING as it does show show 12 tribes which would include BOTH nations.?

Jeremiah 3:8 "Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel [10 northern scattered tribes] had committed adultery, I had put Her away and given Her a certificate of divorce;
yet her Treacherous Sister Judah[2 southern tribes] did not fear, but went and played the Harlot also.

I use mainly Ezekiel {along with the Holy Spirit} for revelation because it is "revelation", being that Daniel is much harder to find out what revelation is representing. Once one sees what revelation is presenting, then Daniel will be easier to interpret I think. But I will of course retranslate Daniel fully using several translations and lexicons as I did with revelation [leaving out the KJV].

If you read Daniel's prophecy it states that 'an anointed prince' would be swept away and then the one who killed him would 'enter a seven year covenant' and practice all sorts of abominations, and, as it states in an even more jarring and incongruous fashion, 'the end of the world would come swiftly like a flood.' All this is rather 'jarring' to read, and does leave a person scratching their heads, wondering what is wrong with this picture. A doctrine of the 'revived Roman empire' was then concocted, and at the time this happens, the clock will start ticking again and that last bit of prophecy will finally be fulfilled. This might explain chapter nine, if you choose to accept such nimble interpretation, but another excuse would have to be cooked up for chapters 10 to 12, for it is self evident that in this source (written in the second century in response to Antiochus IV) the world did not end immediately after Antiochus despoiled Jerusalem and the temple, Michael was not outraged enough to promptly end the world. This 'clock' must have 'stopped ticking' as well, awaiting the awakening and the rise of the 'revived Selucid Greek empire' at which time it will finally be fulfilled. This would, of course, require ending the world twice (once to Revive the Romans and thus salvage chapter 9, and a second go at it to revive the Greeks and salvage chapter 12. Whether or not we can all tolerate suffering through two ends of the world is a good question, but this would be required to salvage the doctrine of 'Biblical inerrancy.' Most interpreters focus on chapter nine, and, it would seem, just ignore chapter 11. It is, after all, a simpler solution to their problem here.
I have noticed while comparing translations of different verses in the Bible, even the most literal translations can suddenly depart from literalism, perhaps visit the Greek Septuagint and abandon the Hebrew translation for a single verse, whenever some highly cherished doctrine might be threatened by a truly literal translation. Rule of thumb : you should never, ever rely exclusively on one single translation.) Afterall, TRUTH in the bible is to be sought after.


Are these years added together for both Houses or are they seperate?

ezekiel 4:.....This [will be] a sign to the house of Israel. 4 " Lie also on your left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel(10 tribes) upon it. [According] to the number of the days that you lie on it, you shall bear their iniquity. 5 "For I have laid on you the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, 390 days; so you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. 6 "And when you have completed them, lie again on your right side; then you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Judah(2 tribes) forty days. I have laid on you a day for each year. 7

 

[Terral]

Hi Tracy:

Tracy >> I know full well that this present age was not an afterthought and that it was in God's overall plan from the beginning, but it is new in the sense that it's different from anything that has gone before or anything that will take place in the future. I took notice of the fact that you used the term parethetical in an earlier post to describe this age, and that useage is incorrect.

No sir. That statement is very accurate in describing how this current ‘time’ fits into the overall Prophetic Program. The time we are now part of is in no way an ‘age.’ Our current age has been ongoing since Genesis 1:2, since this current ‘darkness’ has been in power over creation.

Tracy >> That particular term sustains some direct or indirect relation to whatever has gone before or that which follows; but this present age purpose isn't so related and is properly termed an intercalation which is formed by introducing a day or period of time into the calendar. This present age is an intercalation into the revealed calendar or program of God.

No sir. We are still in the seventh day of Gen. 2:4. First, let's look at the true definition of Aion.

Age:

Aion: "an age, era" (to be connected with aei, "ever," rather than with ao, "to breathe"), signifies a period of indefinite duration, or time viewed in relation to what takes place in the period. The force attaching to the word is not so much that of the actual length of a period, but that of a period marked by spiritual or moral characteristics. This is illustrated in the use of the adjective [see Note 1 after A1 below] in the phrase "life eternal," in John_17:3, in respect of the increasing knowledge of God.

The phrases containing this word should not be rendered literally, but consistently with its sense of indefinite duration. Thus eis ton aiona does not mean "unto the age" but "for ever" (see, e.g., Heb_5:6). The Greeks contrasted that which came to an end with that which was expressed by this phrase, which shows that they conceived of it as expressing interminable duration.

The word occurs most frequently in the Gospel of John, the Hebrews and Revelation. It is sometimes wrongly rendered "world." See COURSE, ETERNAL, WORLD. It is a characteristic word of John's Gospel.

The context through which I am defining ‘age’ is through statements made in Scripture itself.

Matt 12:32 "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Matt 13:39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

Matt 13:40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

Matt 13:49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous,

From Christ’s words above, it should be self explanatory that there are no ‘ages’ between the time He spoke these words, and the ‘end of the age.’ That judgment (Matt. 13:40) and burning of the tares represents God dealing with the same ‘darkness’ of Genesis 1:2. This is how we know:

1 Cor 2:6 ¶ Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;

1 Cor 2:8 which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;

Paul is addressing us from within the current ‘age.’ Again, the same ‘rulers’ are in power from the ‘darkness’ of Genesis 1:2.

Gal 1:4 who gave Himself for our sins so that He might rescue us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual {forces} of wickedness in the heavenly {places.}

Christ and Paul are addressing the same ‘age’ and also that another is coming. Therefore, Vine’s definition of this term holds true:

Vine >> “The force attaching to the word is not so much that of the actual length of a period, but that of a period marked by spiritual or moral characteristics.”

The characteristics of this current ‘evil age’ represent the primary uniqueness and character that have remained constant throughout. Only after the devil (Rev. 20:10) and death itself are thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14) can we even consider entering into the next ‘age’ (Rev. 21:1).

Within this one age, there are exactly seven days. Six of those days are described in Genesis 1. This seventh (Sabbath; priestly) day began in the transition from Genesis 2:3 to Genesis 2:4.

“Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. [<- last sixth day action / first seventh day action -> ]This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.” Gen. 2;3+4.

While Elohim (Triune Father, Son, Holy Spirit; “Us,” and “Our” of Genesis 1:26) were all working as One during all those days of this present ‘evil age,’ the YHVH Elohim (the Lord God; i.e, our Lord Jesus Christ) is the “Lord of the Sabbath.” Matt. 12:8. This seventh day is about how He does His priestly work of consecrating His body (Eph. 4:12) and His bride (John 3:29, Rev. 19:5-10) for the work of the ‘ages to come’ (Eph. 2:4-7 (7)). The very instant that this seventh (Sabbath) day is complete (Rev. 20:15), then we will again see Elohim very busy at work once again, and creation itself will be adorned with an entirely new set of purified characteristics:

“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband . . .” Rev. 21:1 . . .”

What a magnificent High Priest our Lord Jesus Christ really is for All on this final Sabbath Day of this current Evil Age.

God bless,

Terral

 

[Tractor1]

Hi Tracy:

No sir. That statement is very accurate in describing how this current ‘time’ fits into the overall Prophetic Program. The time we are now part of is in no way an ‘age.’ Our current age has been ongoing since Genesis 1:2, since this current ‘darkness’ has been in power over creation.


No sir. We are still in the seventh day of Gen. 2:4. First, let's look at the true definition of Aion.


The context through which I am defining ‘age’ is through statements made in Scripture itself.

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From Christ’s words above, it should be self explanatory that there are no ‘ages’ between the time He spoke these words, and the ‘end of the age.’ That judgment (Matt. 13:40) and burning of the tares represents God dealing with the same ‘darkness’ of Genesis 1:2. This is how we know:

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Paul is addressing us from within the current ‘age.’ Again, the same ‘rulers’ are in power from the ‘darkness’ of Genesis 1:2.
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Christ and Paul are addressing the same ‘age’ and also that another is coming. Therefore, Vine’s definition of this term holds true:

The characteristics of this current ‘evil age’ represent the primary uniqueness and character that have remained constant throughout. Only after the devil (Rev. 20:10) and death itself are thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:14) can we even consider entering into the next ‘age’ (Rev. 21:1).

Within this one age, there are exactly seven days. Six of those days are described in Genesis 1. This seventh (Sabbath; priestly) day began in the transition from Genesis 2:3 to Genesis 2:4.


While Elohim (Triune Father, Son, Holy Spirit; “Us,” and “Our” of Genesis 1:26) were all working as One during all those days of this present ‘evil age,’ the YHVH Elohim (the Lord God; i.e, our Lord Jesus Christ) is the “Lord of the Sabbath.” Matt. 12:8. This seventh day is about how He does His priestly work of consecrating His body (Eph. 4:12) and His bride (John 3:29, Rev. 19:5-10) for the work of the ‘ages to come’ (Eph. 2:4-7 (7)). The very instant that this seventh (Sabbath) day is complete (Rev. 20:15), then we will again see Elohim very busy at work once again, and creation itself will be adorned with an entirely new set of purified characteristics:


What a magnificent High Priest our Lord Jesus Christ really is for All on this final Sabbath Day of this current Evil Age.

God bless,

Terral

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Sorry Terral, I don't agree.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[In Christ Forever]

Paul >> 7 weeks + 62 weeks. But yet in verse 26 was have a period of 62 weeks UNTIL the Messiah comes... I see no reason to count the 62 weeks until the Messiah from the original 7th week - simply by the wording. It clearly says "And AFTER" 62 weeks.. as in after the clock starts ticking...[/QUOTE]

From Christ’s words above, it should be self explanatory that there are no ‘ages’ between the time He spoke these words, and the ‘end of the age.’ That judgment (Matt. 13:40) and burning of the tares represents God dealing with the same ‘darkness’ of Genesis 1:2. This is how we know:

No sir. That statement is very accurate in describing how this current ‘time’ fits into the overall Prophetic Program. The time we are now part of is in no way an ‘age.’ Our current age has been ongoing since Genesis 1:2, since this current ‘darkness’ has been in power over creation.

So I see there is disagreement on "AGE" and Terrel is correct about an AGE. It appears revelation is an end to an AGE more than it is the "end of the world". According to this person, it appears there are 2 ends of the world. Anyone figure out Daniel yet and what is a "clock ticking"? Seems to be the most controversial book in the Bible as far as prophecy is concerned.

If you read Daniel's prophecy it states that 'an anointed prince' would be swept away and then the one who killed him would 'enter a seven year covenant' and practice all sorts of abominations, and, as it states in an even more jarring and incongruous fashion, 'the end of the world would come swiftly like a flood.' All this is rather 'jarring' to read, and does leave a person scratching their heads, wondering what is wrong with this picture. A doctrine of the 'revived Roman empire' was then concocted, and at the time this happens, the clock will start ticking again and that last bit of prophecy will finally be fulfilled. This might explain chapter nine, if you choose to accept such nimble interpretation, but another excuse would have to be cooked up for chapters 10 to 12, for it is self evident that in this source (written in the second century in response to Antiochus IV) the world did not end immediately after Antiochus despoiled Jerusalem and the temple, Michael was not outraged enough to promptly end the world. This 'clock' must have 'stopped ticking' as well, awaiting the awakening and the rise of the 'revived Selucid Greek empire' at which time it will finally be fulfilled. This would, of course, require ending the world twice (once to Revive the Romans and thus salvage chapter 9, and a second go at it to revive the Greeks and salvage chapter 12. Whether or not we can all tolerate suffering through two ends of the world is a good question, but this would be required to salvage the doctrine of 'Biblical inerrancy.' Most interpreters focus on chapter nine, and, it would seem, just ignore chapter 11. It is, after all, a simpler solution to their problem here.
I have noticed while comparing translations of different verses in the Bible, even the most literal translations can suddenly depart from literalism, perhaps visit the Greek Septuagint and abandon the Hebrew translation for a single verse, whenever some highly cherished doctrine might be threatened by a truly literal translation. Rule of thumb : you should never, ever rely exclusively on one single translation.) Afterall, TRUTH in the bible is to be sought after.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Sorry Terral, I don't agree.

In Christ,
Tracey

I also disagree.

Paul

 

[In Christ Forever]

Double post. sorry.

1 corin 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, [and] has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man [came] death, by Man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those [who are] Christ's at His coming. 24 Then [comes] the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy [that] will be destroyed [is] death. 27 For "He has put all things under His feet." But when He says "all things are put under [Him," it is] evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.

 

[In Christ Forever]

Well, it looks like the whole religious world will continue on disagreeing until bible "Scholars" can agree to what Daniel is prohecying. Otherwise, I will just look at others views and try to see who is the closest in interpretation according to my "Spirit" and while I am doing a complete translation on it using several translations, lexicons and experts in the hebrew, aramaic and greek language. One only needs the book of Ezekiel to see what revelation is representing.

If you read Daniel's prophecy it states that 'an anointed prince' would be swept away and then the one who killed him would 'enter a seven year covenant' and practice all sorts of abominations, and, as it states in an even more jarring and incongruous fashion, 'the end of the world would come swiftly like a flood.' All this is rather 'jarring' to read, and does leave a person scratching their heads, wondering what is wrong with this picture. A doctrine of the 'revived Roman empire' was then concocted, and at the time this happens, the clock will start ticking again and that last bit of prophecy will finally be fulfilled. This might explain chapter nine, if you choose to accept such nimble interpretation, but another excuse would have to be cooked up for chapters 10 to 12, for it is self evident that in this source (written in the second century in response to Antiochus IV) the world did not end immediately after Antiochus despoiled Jerusalem and the temple, Michael was not outraged enough to promptly end the world. This 'clock' must have 'stopped ticking' as well, awaiting the awakening and the rise of the 'revived Selucid Greek empire' at which time it will finally be fulfilled. This would, of course, require ending the world twice (once to Revive the Romans and thus salvage chapter 9, and a second go at it to revive the Greeks and salvage chapter 12. Whether or not we can all tolerate suffering through two ends of the world is a good question, but this would be required to salvage the doctrine of 'Biblical inerrancy.' Most interpreters focus on chapter nine, and, it would seem, just ignore chapter 11. It is, after all, a simpler solution to their problem here.
I have noticed while comparing translations of different verses in the Bible, even the most literal translations can suddenly depart from literalism, perhaps visit the Greek Septuagint and abandon the Hebrew translation for a single verse, whenever some highly cherished doctrine might be threatened by a truly literal translation. Rule of thumb : you should never, ever rely exclusively on one single translation.) Afterall, TRUTH in the bible is to be sought after.

1 corin 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

galat 5:22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those [who are] Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

[Terral]

Hi InChristForever:

InChristForever >> So I see there is disagreement on "AGE" and Terral is correct about an AGE. It appears revelation is an end to an AGE more than it is the "end of the world". According to this person, it appears there are 2 ends of the world. Anyone figure out Daniel yet and what is a "clock ticking"? Seems to be the most controversial book in the Bible as far as prophecy is concerned.

The Prophetic Clock is ticking from the introduction of the ‘darkness’ of Gen. 1:2 to death being thrown into the lake fire (Rev. 20:14+15). Israel is the instrument God is using, as we see the unfolding of Daniel’s prophecies in Revelation. What is there to figure out about Daniel? The clock is not ticking today, because we are standing inside this time of the gathering of the Gentile Body of Christ, according to the ‘revelation of the Mystery’ (Rom. 16:25). The gathering of the Jewish Bride of Christ is described in OT Prophecy (spirit witness: Genesis - Malachi), and fulfilled in the NT Hebrew Epistles (water witness: Matt.-Acts, Hebrews-Revelation). 1John 5:8. Look at Scripture as being laid out in the image of God (spirit/blood/water), which is the image of a man (spirit/soul/body). Today, we are living within a mystery time (blood part) that is parenthetical to the Messianic Kingdom that began with John the Baptist (Matt. 11:13) and ends in Rev. 20:15. This Messianic Kingdom Administration (water) is only one household/dispensation contained within this current ‘Sabbath Day’ that began in Gen. 2:4.

Paul’s Gentile Epistles are the mystery writings and Lord’s commandment (1Cor. 14:37+38) to the members of the body of Christ (Rom. 12:4+5, 1Cor. 12:27, Col. 1:24) living within this hidden mystery time . If you were to remove all evidence of Paul from the New Testament, then The Bible would flow perfectly as God’s Prophetic Testimony concerning Israel becoming the bride of the Lord God in a spirit (OT)/body (NT) fashion. Paul’s Epistles are the ‘blood/soul’ part of Scripture. However, if that kind of scenario actually took place, then Israel would have accepted the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, 24:14) from John the Baptist (Elijah; Matt. 11:14) Christ and the Twelve the first trip around. Then, in that event, Christ would not have had opportunity to die for anyone, and repentance and water baptism “for the forgiveness of sins” (Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38) would have been the ‘eternal gospel’ (Rev. 14:6) for all time. Therefore, the Prophetic Clock does not tick while the events pertaining to this ‘mystery’ time are being accomplished. If you will think about that for a moment, and realize that Daniel was not given to see Paul or the body of Christ, then it will make sense that the Clock only ticks while God is dealing with the Bride. Therefore, when Elijah returns and begins preparing the Bride, the Prophetic Clock will again begin ticking.

InChristForever >>If you read Daniel's prophecy it states that 'an anointed prince' would be swept away and then the one who killed him would 'enter a seven year covenant' and practice all sorts of abominations, and, as it states in an even more jarring and incongruous fashion, 'the end of the world would come swiftly like a flood.'

Yes. Those words pertain to the very end of the age, when Satan is loosed (Rev. 20:7). David the prince (Eze. 37:24+25) is the anointed one that will be overcome by the beast according to the activity of Satan in those final seven years. The resurrection of Eze. 37:1-12 occurs at the beginning of the coming Messianic Kingdom. That is the only way that Paul’s words “all Israel shall be saved” (Rom. 11:26) can be fulfilled. Note that those words follow the “until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in,” statement. Again, this is a reference to the “After these things . . . I will return, and I will rebuild the tabernacle of David . . .” (Acts 15:16) statements by James. Also, note carefully that this MUST be a seventh day (during this evil Age) fulfillment of prophecy. It is most vital to tie these events together and realize that a dispensational shift is taking place. In other words, Paul is describing the shift from this time of the Gentiles to the return to the fulfillment of OT Prophecy. The vital link in these statements is given to us back in Acts 3, where Peter pleads with Israel to repent and accept this ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 24:14):

"Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.” Acts 3:19-21.

Guess what? Christ cannot return, until the prophetic words of the OT prophets are fulfilled regarding the period of restoration of ALL things. Please take a minute, and sit back in your chairs, and realize exactly what this statement implies . . . The kingdom must be restored to Israel first, before Christ can return. That includes the entire Promised Land all the way to the EuphratesRiver (Gen. 15:18). Ezekiel’s ThirdTemple must be rebuilt and temple sacrifices returned. That is the only way that Daniel’s prophecy can be fulfilled concerning the ‘abomination of desolation’ (Dan. 11:31, 12:11). Are we noting the words “regular sacrifice” in his words? So, Christ must remain in heaven, until the ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3) ; until the period of restoration of All things is complete. If we follow along in Acts, and continue reading, Peter says this:

"Moses said, 'The Lord God will rise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren, to him you shall give heed to everything he says to you. And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people. And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and {his} successors onward, also announced these days. "It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.' For you first, God raised up His servant and sent him to bless you by turning every one from your wicked ways." Acts 2:22-26.

Can you name that servant/prophet, who Christ said is “more than a prophet” (Matt. 11:9)? That is correct . . . Elijah.

“And His disciples asked Him, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" And He answered and said, "Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished.” Matt. 17:10-12.

I believe it is fair to say that nobody who ever walked the earth is better able to explain what this phrase “All things” means that pertain to this period of restoration (Acts 3:21). But you can image that Christ is seeing a ton of things being restored, and that is what this upcoming Messianic Kingdom Period is all about.

God bless,

Terral

 

[In Christ Forever]

The Prophetic Clock is ticking from the introduction of the ‘darkness’ of Gen. 1:2 to death being thrown into the lake fire (Rev. 20:14+15). Israel is the instrument God is using, as we see the unfolding of Daniel’s prophecies in Revelation. What is there to figure out about Daniel? The clock is not ticking today, because we are standing inside this time of the gathering of the Gentile Body of Christ, according to the ‘revelation of the Mystery’ (Rom. 16:25).

I have my own view on revelation using the book of Ezekiel, which follows revelation better than any book.
What about these verses? The woman is Jacob/Israel correct? The manchild is Jesus? [born from the House of Judah?] Doesn't it appear the woman turns into a Harlot? Are these 2 different women in the wilderness or just one? 2 time periods are shown, but in different ways, that is what is stumping me right now. God bless.

Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

reve 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast [which was] full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.

reve 2:20 "Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

17 "For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18 "And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."

reve 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all [people,] free and slave, both small and great." 19

Ezekiel 39:8 "Surely it is coming, and it shall be done," says the Lord GOD. "This [is] the day of which I have spoken. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD. 15 "The search party will pass through the land; and [when anyone] sees a man's bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog. 17 " And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field: "Assemble yourselves and come; Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal Which I am sacrificing for you, A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel, That you may eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You shall eat the flesh of the mighty, Drink the blood of the princes of the earth, Of rams and lambs, Of goats and bulls, All of them fatlings of Bashan. . 21 " I will set My glory among the nations; all the nations shall see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them.

 

[Terral]

Hi Tracy and Paul:

The two of you say in harmony >>



Tracy >> Sorry Terral, I don't agree.



Paul >> I also disagree.

That is A-Okay guys. However, I do not see one supported statement from either of you to disprove one of my statements. Please ‘cut’ anything from my words that appears out of line, or any verse I have used out of context, and present your collective cases. The fact that neither of you see it . . . yet, is no indication at all that my view is incorrect. Of course, this is merely a discussion of the topic and not a debate.


God bless,



Terral

 

[In Christ Forever]

Hi Tracy and Paul:
That is A-Okay guys. However, I do not see one supported statement from either of you to disprove one of my statements. Please ‘cut’ anything from my words that appears out of line, or any verse I have used out of context, and present your collective cases. The fact that neither of you see it . . . yet, is no indication at all that my view is incorrect. Of course, this is merely a discussion of the topic and not a debate.


God bless,
Terral

Hi Terral,
If you feel like discussing Daniel and Ezekiel and how it relates to revelation, pm me. Otherwise, I am going to leave this topic to the "scholars". God bless.

Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.[ 2515 kathedra kath-ed'-rah from 2596 and the same as 1476; a bench (literally or figuratively):--seat.] 3 "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, [that] observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4 "For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers.

revela 16:10 Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne[Seat] of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues because of the pain. [2362 thronos thron'-os from thrao (to sit); a stately seat ("throne"); by implication, power or (concretely) a potentate:--seat, throne].

 

[@@Paul@@]

Hi Tracy and Paul:



[/size][/font]


That is A-Okay guys. However, I do not see one supported statement from either of you to disprove one of my statements. Please ‘cut’ anything from my words that appears out of line, or any verse I have used out of context, and present your collective cases. The fact that neither of you see it . . . yet, is no indication at all that my view is incorrect. Of course, this is merely a discussion of the topic and not a debate.


God bless,



Terral

I will!! There's WAY to much!! j/k...

I do not believe there is ONE age from creation until it's destruction... AND I’m not sure how I’m going to explain it to someone who sees otherwise… I see at least 3 ages...

1) Creation > Flood
…….. represents the world that WAS
2) Flood > Millennium
…….. the world that IS
3) Millennium > end of this WORLD.
…….. The world as it should BE​

Any suggestions?