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God's promises to Noah, climate change, and these Last Days

eclipsenow

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We can begin with the first assumption: "I have moved away from any idea of a young earth. This is because of scientific reasons, not geology, but astronomy. Unless current astronomic theory is fatally flawed in multiple areas (which has been known to happen in science, but that’s not really a basis for dissenting, it’s a bit too sceptical in the bad sense) then it would seem that we receive information here on earth about events that occurred a long, long, long, long time ago (about things far, far, far, far away). So, the universe is old. (But again, if that’s wrong and science returns to an 8 000 year old cosmos, I don’t think that will somehow ‘vindicate the Bible’. If people won’t accept the apostles’ testimony about Jesus’ resurrection from the dead I doubt a young cosmos, or finding Noah’s Ark, will suddenly create faith)."

Assumes an old earth but ignores the fact that everything God created was made fully developed. The man & woman were created with the ability to understand and commune with God, and already prepared to procreate life. The trees in the garden also were fully developed with the ability to provide food for mankind. The whales God calls "great whales", meaning older. The fowls of the air already with the ability to fly above the earth. However, the Bible is silent as to how aged God made creation appear at the beginning when all things were created? We don't know, but we believe God when He tells us that everything in heaven and earth was created in six literal days just as His Word says He did.

And you fail to explain how if the days were not literal, we are to understand the seventh day when God said man must rest from his labor on that day.
The 7 day cycle sets up the expectation of God's command later.
But notice something? The cycle breaks.
What cycle? "Morning and evening."
Technically we're still IN the seventh day - we're meant to be enjoying the rest of Eden. But that's only if you pay attention to the literary genre of Genesis itself and stop bashing it with MODERN SCIENTIFIC questions. Ironically, the YEC approach robs Genesis 1 of meaning. It reduces it to a boring shopping list of what God made when, and... to be honest... I could care less? I mean, so what? This got made then, and this then. Why not just make it all in the one nano-second! BAM! WHY take 7 days to do it if you're the infinitely powerful and wise creator? Why spell out what happened what day?

Personally I think that approach to the text is faulty, and has warped our understanding of it by worrying about what Darwin said more than listening to the text live and breathe in the ancient language.
 
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rwb

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The 7 day cycle sets up the expectation of God's command later.
But notice something? The cycle breaks.
What cycle? "Morning and evening."
Technically we're still IN the seventh day - we're meant to be enjoying the rest of Eden. But that's only if you pay attention to the literary genre of Genesis itself and stop bashing it with MODERN SCIENTIFIC questions. Ironically, the YEC approach robs Genesis 1 of meaning. It reduces it to a boring shopping list of what God made when, and... to be honest... I could care less? I mean, so what? This got made then, and this then. Why not just make it all in the one nano-second! BAM! WHY take 7 days to do it if you're the infinitely powerful and wise creator? Why spell out what happened what day?

Personally I think that approach to the text is faulty, and has warped our understanding of it by worrying about what Darwin said more than listening to the text live and breathe in the ancient language.

If you can address my reply regarding the first assumption, we could possibly continue this discussion. But as long as you continue to ignore my replies then allow me to reply in like manner as you "to be honest...I could care less? I mean, so what?"
 
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eclipsenow

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If you can address my reply regarding the first assumption, we could possibly continue this discussion. But as long as you continue to ignore my replies then allow me to reply in like manner as you "to be honest...I could care less? I mean, so what?"
I'm saying YEC has reduced Genesis to a dry reductionist shopping list - when the text itself gives us clues as to the rich theological concerns of the passage. I'm saying YECers are missing out.
"In Genesis 1, multiples of seven appear in extraordinary ways. For ancient readers, who were accustomed to taking notice of such things, these multiples of seven conveyed a powerful message. Seven was the divine number, the number of goodness and perfection. Its omnipresence in the opening chapter of the Bible makes an unmistakable point about the origin and nature of the universe itself. Consider the following: The first sentence of Genesis 1 consists of seven Hebrew words. Instantly, the ancient reader’s attention is focused;

The second sentence contains exactly fourteen words. A pattern is developing;

The word ‘earth’—one half of the created sphere—appears in the chapter 21 times;

The word ‘heaven’—the other half of the created sphere—also appears 21 times.

‘God’, the lead actor, is mentioned exactly 35 times.

The refrain ‘and it was so,’ which concludes each creative act, occurs exactly seven times;

The summary statement ‘God saw that it was good’ also occurs seven times;

It hardly needs to be pointed out that the whole account is structured around seven scenes or seven days of the week.

The artistry of the chapter is stunning and, to ancient readers, unmistakable. It casts the creation as a work of art, sharing in the perfection of God and deriving from him. My point is obvious: short of including a prescript for the benefit of modern readers the original author could hardly have made it clearer that his message is being conveyed through literary rather than prosaic means. What we find in Genesis 1 is not exactly poetry of the type we find in the biblical book of Psalms but nor is it recognizable as simple prose. It is a rhythmic, symbolically-charged inventory of divine commands." https://www.publicchristianity.org/the-genre-of-genesis-1-an-historical-approach/
More at his podcast. https://undeceptions.com/podcast/six-days
 
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DavidPT

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Technically we're still IN the seventh day

What comes after 7 per this scenario? 1 comes after 7 since human history obviously has to begin once God rests from all the work He created and formed. Right now we are not still in day 7 technically or otherwise. We are in day 6 approaching day 7.

It looks like this- Creation day 1(24 hours), creation day 2(24 hours), creation day 3(24 hours),creation day 4(24 hours), creation day 5(24 hours), creation day 6(24 hours), day 7 all of creation is completed, now human history can begin.

Day 1 of human history(1000 years), Day 2 of human history(1000 years), Day 3 of human history(1000 years), Day 4 of human history(1000 years), Day 5 of human history(1000 years), Day 6 of human history(1000 years), Day 7 of human history(1000 years, meaning the future millennium), then day 1 again, following that, or maybe better yet, the 8th day this time, that there is no end to this day, meaning after the time of the great white throne judgment after the 7th day millennium.

To place the 7th millennium in this age and have it parallelling human history day 5 and 6 is ludicrous. 7 never comes before 5 and 6 nor does 7 ever parallel 5 and 6. 7 always follows 5 and 6.
 
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rwb

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I'm saying YEC has reduced Genesis to a dry reductionist shopping list - when the text itself gives us clues as to the rich theological concerns of the passage. I'm saying YECers are missing out.
"In Genesis 1, multiples of seven appear in extraordinary ways. For ancient readers, who were accustomed to taking notice of such things, these multiples of seven conveyed a powerful message. Seven was the divine number, the number of goodness and perfection. Its omnipresence in the opening chapter of the Bible makes an unmistakable point about the origin and nature of the universe itself. Consider the following: The first sentence of Genesis 1 consists of seven Hebrew words. Instantly, the ancient reader’s attention is focused;

The second sentence contains exactly fourteen words. A pattern is developing;

The word ‘earth’—one half of the created sphere—appears in the chapter 21 times;

The word ‘heaven’—the other half of the created sphere—also appears 21 times.

‘God’, the lead actor, is mentioned exactly 35 times.

The refrain ‘and it was so,’ which concludes each creative act, occurs exactly seven times;

The summary statement ‘God saw that it was good’ also occurs seven times;

It hardly needs to be pointed out that the whole account is structured around seven scenes or seven days of the week.

The artistry of the chapter is stunning and, to ancient readers, unmistakable. It casts the creation as a work of art, sharing in the perfection of God and deriving from him. My point is obvious: short of including a prescript for the benefit of modern readers the original author could hardly have made it clearer that his message is being conveyed through literary rather than prosaic means. What we find in Genesis 1 is not exactly poetry of the type we find in the biblical book of Psalms but nor is it recognizable as simple prose. It is a rhythmic, symbolically-charged inventory of divine commands." The genre of Genesis 1: an historical approach - Centre for Public Christianity
More at his podcast. Six Days - Undeceptions

Who taught you this, because you did not get it from the Word of God? All of your theology on this topic appears to be from various places, but never is proven through the Word. The thing about opinion, Irregardless of where it comes from is that if it cannot be proven from the Word of God it remains OPINION, and opinion without biblical proof is never a good thing!
 
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eclipsenow

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What comes after 7 per this scenario? 1 comes after 7 since human history obviously has to begin once God rests from all the work He created and formed. Right now we are not still in day 7 technically or otherwise. We are in day 6 approaching day 7.

Not what the text says.
I'm just pointing out that the closing sequence used for the first 6 days isn't repeated at the end of the 7th day, so we're still in the 7th day.

It looks like this- Creation day 1(24 hours), creation day 2(24 hours), creation day 3(24 hours),creation day 4(24 hours), creation day 5(24 hours), creation day 6(24 hours), day 7 all of creation is completed, now human history can begin.
Not at all - the purpose is rest.

See, the first 3 days are the forms, the second the filling of the forms, and the last is the purpose.
 
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rwb

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I'm saying YEC has reduced Genesis to a dry reductionist shopping list - when the text itself gives us clues as to the rich theological concerns of the passage. I'm saying YECers are missing out.

I'm still waiting for a response to my reply giving an answer for why some might believe the creation could be old, and how God instructing man to rest on the seventh day makes it ridiculous to believe each day was longer than 24 literal hours.

I don't believe your motive is to show young earth Christians how they are missing out and forcing Genesis to a dry reductionist shopping list. Sadly, I believe you have been deceived into believing what the Bible does not endorse, and you think you have been assigned to set us all straight.

Reformed theologian Herman Bavinck sums up how Scripture speaks of the creation account:

When it speaks about the genesis of heaven and earth, it does not present saga or myth or poetic fantasy but offers, in accordance with its own clear intent, history, the history that deserves credence and trust. And for that reason Christian theology, with only a few exceptions, continued to hold onto the literal historical view of the creation story.

Secondly, the plain reading of Genesis 1:1–2:3 is that the text describes events that took place in six 24-hour days that occurred in time-space history. Genesis 1:1–2:3 then “should be read as other Hebrew narratives are intended to be read—as a concise report of actual events in time-space history.” This is the natural exegesis of the text and the one that is meant by the author. When it is read this way, it is clear what the author is asserting, namely, that God created everything in one week. Using other passages that speak to the same topic assists in determining the proper interpretation since Scripture will never contradict itself. Exodus 20:11 and 31:17 make it clear that the events of Genesis 1:1–2:3 occurred in six days, just as the text plainly reads. Additionally, the passage informs us that mankind was created on Day Six (Genesis 1:26–31), and Jesus confirmed this (Mark 10:6).

Is Genesis 1 Literal, Literalism, or Literalistic? - Servants of Grace
 
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eclipsenow

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I'm still waiting for a response to my reply giving an answer for why some might believe the creation could be old, and how God instructing man to rest on the seventh day makes it ridiculous to believe each day was longer than 24 literal hours.
On it's own it doesn't - but combined with everything else we know about the passage, it does.

Consider how all the mass of all the planets in our solar system only account for 2% of the solar system's mass - 98% is the sun. Consider how our sun is only one of 500,000,000 in our galaxy alone - and then multiply by the number of galaxies out there! God takes 6 'literal' 24 hour days to fashion this earth to what he wants - then just waves his hand and makes all that quadrillions upon quadrillions more mass in one night? Then he's so pooped from it all on the seventh day he has to take a rest?

Literally? Really? Wow - just wow!

Add the number symbolism, the fact that the stars and sun and moon are put in the 'vault' of the heavens, and you have the creation of the world dressed up in number symbolism and AMEC. (Ancient Middle Eastern Cosmology.) You can't just hand-wave the AMEC away - that's what the vault is. It appears again in the Noah story with those pesky floodgates that just won't go away!

But I quote the theologians that point this all out, and so Creationists like yourself spend more time attacking my character than analysing the literary genre Genesis is. It's almost like "Look at this horrible thing over there!" rather than confront the truth. EG:

I don't believe your motive is...
:oldthumbsup:



Reformed theologian Herman Bavinck sums up how Scripture speaks of the creation account:

When it speaks about the genesis of heaven and earth, it does not present saga or myth or poetic fantasy but offers, in accordance with its own clear intent, history, the history that deserves credence and trust. And for that reason Christian theology, with only a few exceptions, continued to hold onto the literal historical view of the creation story.
He is wrong. Trusting in an orderly creator was the worldview that developed modern science and modern science shows us a consistently ancient universe and old world. Literary analysis shows us a text full of number symbolism, AMEC, and other literary tricks. It is not history but symbolism.


Additionally, the passage informs us that mankind was created on Day Six (Genesis 1:26–31), and Jesus confirmed this (Mark 10:6).
That's how you refer to stories whether they are real or metaphor. Again, we don't walk around saying "That mythical, fictitious Romeo said to the mythical, fictitious Juliet..."

This whole warfare between Darwinism and Christianity was not always the case. It's a relatively modern reaction to Darwinism. There were always critics of Darwin including Hodge, but at the beginning YEC wasn't as big a movement as it is now.

Gray became a leading defender of Darwinism in America. He corresponded with Darwin at length, often turning to a Congregational minister, G.F. Wright (also an advocate for evolution) for theological expertise when dealing with Darwin's agnosticism.

by 1867 the phrase 'Christian Darwinism' was already in use to describe the vigorous defense of the theory by prominent conservative Christians

Despite his best efforts Gray never resolved Darwin's doubts. But this did not cause Gray himself to waver on either the scientific case for Darwinism, or its compatibility with orthodox Christianity. Gray was not a lone voice. Others including Princeton theologian James McCosh, James Iverach and Audrey Moore defended Darwinism in Britain as well as America. Indeed by 1867 the phrase 'Christian Darwinism' was already in use to describe the vigorous defense of the theory by prominent conservative Christians....

...Yet Warfield's lasting significance as a theologian does not involve evolution. His most influential legacy is his refinement and promotion of a doctrine of Scripture known as inerrancy. Inerrancy says that Scripture is entirely without error in every part. This particular doctrine has emerged as central to creationist interpretations of Scripture. Creationists argue that since Scripture cannot contain error on any matter, references to a recent global flood and the formation of life over six literal days must be scientifically valid. Hence the task of ‘scientific creationism’ is to find scientific evidence in support of such views. For creationists and the majority of American Fundamentalists, the inerrancy of Scripture logically denies evolution and vice versa. If Scripture was found to be in error, it would be as if God had lied. If God lied then the entire Christian notion of God collapses.

B.B. Warfield contributed to the early 20th century essay series called ‘The Fundamentals’ from which ‘Fundamentalism’ gained its name. It would therefore come as a shock to many of today’s Fundamentalists to hear that he supported evolutionary theory. But Warfield was not alone. G.F. Wright and James Orr were also ‘Fundamentalist evolutionists’ (a modern oxymoron). When asked to contribute to the Fundamentals, Orr had already published his view that evolution seems ‘extremely probable, and no religious interest is imperilled by a theory of evolution viewed simply as a method of creation.’ How did Orr, Wright, Warfield and others maintain inerrancy and evolution? They applied other doctrines to Scripture such as ‘concursus’. Concursus says Scripture is a fully human product as well as fully divine. Thus, it may be true that from the perspective of the writer of Genesis life was created in six days. But according to concursus the text is divine truth about the formation of the earth adapted into the finite comprehension and culture of an ancient society. Unlike Charles Hodge these Fundamentalists regarded organic evolution as a natural mechanism which no more excluded God than other natural forces such as gravity or magnetism.
The history of Creationism - Centre for Public Christianity
 
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rwb

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On it's own it doesn't - but combined with everything else we know about the passage, it does.

Consider how all the mass of all the planets in our solar system only account for 2% of the solar system's mass - 98% is the sun. Consider how our sun is only one of 500,000,000 in our galaxy alone - and then multiply by the number of galaxies out there! God takes 6 'literal' 24 hour days to fashion this earth to what he wants - then just waves his hand and makes all that quadrillions upon quadrillions more mass in one night? Then he's so pooped from it all on the seventh day he has to take a rest?

Literally? Really? Wow - just wow!

You again overwhelm me when you flippantly express your lack of belief in the power of Almighty God! Have you any understanding of how galaxies form? God, in the beginning set everything into motion by speaking. There is a certain course for the galaxies ordained by God throughout the vastness of outer space, and without God's omnipotent power there would be nothing but vast darkness....BUT GOD! One day you will understand the awesome power of God to SPEAK, and it will be done!

How Did God Create the Universe?

"Genesis 1:1 declares that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The first chapter of Scripture goes on to describe God’s creative act with each activity taking place within the confines of a day. Each day begins with God saying something with an action then taking place. Psalm 33:9 references the creation acts by noting, “For He spoke, and it came to be; He commanded, and it stood firm.” Moreover, Hebrews 11:3 declares, “By faith we understand that the universe was formed by God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.”

Biblical creation is only dependent on 'God said' and an acknowledgement of the truthfulness of Scripture. Evolutionists must rely on "hath God really said"? Because learned Professors, and Astrologers don't believe God speaks and it is done! You must constantly deny the power of God's Spoken Word.

Galaxies are constantly evolving with time, and one manner that they do this is that they change their rotation. Do they do this through self-will, or did a higher power ordain and plot their course? This is apparent from the knowledge we have of initially formed galaxies which are spiral like in the beginning, but over time transform into what seems like smooth, barren disks. Another difference is that some galaxies are younger than others, and the age difference is observed with younger galaxies having a higher number of stars that are also comparatively brighter, which makes these galaxies look blue. Older galaxies contain older stars, and older stars are seen to give off red light, which is why these galaxies seem red. Galaxies also undergo various physical and chemical changes, and older galaxies are more structured. You might think this is simply evolution of the galaxies, but you would be mistaken. The Bible is abundantly clear that the universe was formed by God's command.

Galaxies are brought into formation with the major factor being gravity. The force of gravity is responsible for attracting various stars, collapsing gas, dust clouds and other dark matter into a structured body. Over time the organization becomes more defined. So basically, a galaxy starts off as clouds of dust and stars in space, which come into proximity with other similar clouds, and their subsequent interactions shape the structure of the galaxy. Where did gravity come from? For without it galaxies would not be brought into formation.







 
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eclipsenow

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You again overwhelm me when you flippantly express your lack of belief in the power of Almighty God!
I believe everything he says - I'm just trying to read his word correctly. But I notice that characteristic charm of the YECer in you emerging yet again! :oldthumbsup: Charmed - to be sure!


Have you any understanding of how galaxies form?
Why don't you tell us all - and just flippantly undo centuries of astronomy with bad reading?

God, in the beginning set everything into motion by speaking.
Yep - "Light" emerged before stars did to emit that light. Great cosmology and astronomy!
Instead, in the literary genre that it is, the author is setting up the forms with how neatly the creatures fill those forms. Days 1 2 3 set the forms, then Days 4 5 6 fit neatly into 1 2 3.


There is a certain course for the galaxies ordained by God throughout the vastness of outer space,
Of course! He stuck it right across the Vault / Firmament on Day 4 - it says so in the text! :doh:
(Bad reading + unthinking 'faith' can lead to really sad and unnecessary doubts and conflicts between science and Christianity.)


Cosmogony1.jpg


Also, in other news, other Sumerian flood myths predate Noah's written records by centuries.

Learn more from this conservative Christian bible scholar who believes in the INERRANCY of scripture.
 
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rwb

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I believe everything he says - I'm just trying to read his word correctly. But I notice that characteristic charm of the YECer in you emerging yet again! :oldthumbsup: Charmed - to be sure!

Why don't you tell us all - and just flippantly undo centuries of astronomy with bad reading?

Yep - "Light" emerged before stars did to emit that light. Great cosmology and astronomy!
Instead, in the literary genre that it is, the author is setting up the forms with how neatly the creatures fill those forms. Days 1 2 3 set the forms, then Days 4 5 6 fit neatly into 1 2 3.

Of course! He stuck it right across the Vault / Firmament on Day 4 - it says so in the text! :doh:
(Bad reading + unthinking 'faith' can lead to really sad and unnecessary doubts and conflicts between science and Christianity.)

Also, in other news, other Sumerian flood myths predate Noah's written records by centuries.

So many words, and not a single one from the WORD OF GOD!
 
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eclipsenow

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So many words, and not a single one from the WORD OF GOD!
Sure there are - just words you don't want to acknowledge. Like when Dr Dickson quotes from Genesis 1 about the use of 7 in the chapter. That stuff is there - you just have to count! Also, Vault / Firmament. I know it terrifies you that this refers to AMEC - but it really does! You've got to deal with what the text ACTUALLY SAYS before you accuse ME of not reading it!
 
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eclipsenow

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News today

Eclipse note: hot nights = CO2 trapping heat from escaping at night as effectively. Hot nights are a real sign of warming!
But given how this crazy heat is even bringing out crazy people and tempting them to light fires - someone should explain this climate change thing is all a hoax! :oldthumbsup: :doh:



3h ago08.17
A summary of today's developments
  • Met Office data showed that the UK had its first ever day of temperatures over 40C, with 40.3C recorded in Lincolnshire. This followed the hottest ever night recorded, with temperatures failing to dip below 25C in some parts, but relief should arrive shortly in the shape of thunderstorms on Wednesday, the forecaster said.
  • Scotland recorded its highest ever temperature, reaching 34.8C in Charterhall in the Scottish Borders, according to provisional Met Office figures. It exceeded the previous record of 32.9C recorded in Greycrook on 9 August 2003.
  • At least 13 people have died going into open water during the heatwave period, of which at least four were under the age of 17. Water safety organisations are concerned the toll may climb as schools break for summer holidays.
  • The London fire brigade declared a major incident in response to a huge surge in fires across the capital. Firefighters described blazes tearing through homes and buildings in London as “absolute hell” with residents evacuated and people taken to hospital. Residents were evacuated from their homes in the village of Wennington, east London, while flames destroyed buildings and ravaged nearby fields. Two people were also taken to hospital suffering smoke inhalation following a fire in Dagenham.
  • Greater Manchester police are appealing for information about fires suspected to have been started deliberately on the moorland behind Dovestones reservoir.
  • UK transport secretary says Britain must ‘drive up’ railway standards. Grant Shapps said the Victorian-era infrastructure “wasn’t built to withstand this type of temperature”. He added these events will occur more frequently, and it will take decades to upgrade existing lines to be more resilient.
  • London’s ambulance service is experiencing a sustained demand for 999 and 111 services. The service said it was answering 400 calls an hour as it sees “an increase in the number of patients experiencing heat exposure”.
 
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rwb

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Sure there are - just words you don't want to acknowledge. Like when Dr Dickson quotes from Genesis 1 about the use of 7 in the chapter. That stuff is there - you just have to count! Also, Vault / Firmament. I know it terrifies you that this refers to AMEC - but it really does! You've got to deal with what the text ACTUALLY SAYS before you accuse ME of not reading it!

Once again you ignore Biblical answers to questions regarding God's creation of galaxies! Then you return to your pseudo-science that keeps you blinded from receiving the truth. I don't doubt that you read the Bible. That's not your problem, your problem is in believing your science (so-called) is superior to the Bible. As I've shown you already the Bible likens this to people who are always learning and never understanding Biblical truth.

News flash - hot nights are not a new phenomenon! We have them every summer, with some summers experiencing more extreme heat than others. It's called climate cycles. And while I agree with your wanting mankind to take care of God's creation, I don't agree with the stupidity of those who supply the supposed knowledge of doing this in a way that will bankrupt societies. It won't do much good to try to save the earth by starving to death humanity that God created it for.

So, you can keep your junk science and low opinion of God's power, we've heard it all before, and we are not interested in stepping into the same pile of stuff you have fully waded into. We've examined your so-called evidence and found it lacking Biblical support. It's all man-made theory and assumption!
 
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eclipsenow

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Once again you ignore Biblical answers to questions regarding God's creation of galaxies!
Dude - until you deal with the "Vault" or "Firmament" and the "Floodgates" and AMEC - you're the one ignoring what the bible actually says!

ews flash - hot nights are not a new phenomenon!
Newsflash: that's not the claim!
Newsflash: when they break all records in both maximums and frequency it IS newsworthy as it IS evidence that Eunice Foote was onto something back in 1856, and NASA are onto something when they measure the sun's output and find it constant but the earth's temperature warming.


It's called climate cycles. And while I agree with your wanting mankind to take care of God's creation, I don't agree with the stupidity of those who supply the supposed knowledge of doing this in a way that will bankrupt societies.
Do you agree that coal should continue to 'externalise' at least the cost of coal electricity AGAIN into your healthcare systems? You're charged twice - once in your electricity bill and again in your health bill. It's just deadly. Coal ash is radioactive and more dangerous than nuclear waste because it isn't contained properly. Food grown around coal fired power plants is twice as radioactive as normal.

"More than 8 million people died in 2018 from fossil fuel pollution, significantly higher than previous research suggested, according to new research from Harvard University, in collaboration with the University of Birmingham, the University of Leicester and University College London. Researchers estimated that exposure to particulate matter from fossil fuel emissions accounted for 18 percent of total global deaths in 2018 — a little less than 1 out of 5.

Regions with the highest concentrations of fossil fuel-related air pollution — including Eastern North America, Europe, and South-East Asia — have the highest rates of mortality, according to the study published in the journal Environmental Research."
Deaths from fossil fuel emissions higher than previously thought

Coal is finite and would RUN OUT in a century if we kept burning it at current rates. But before then - about half way through - the easy coal runs out and then we hit peak coal. This could bankrupt any nation not ready for it!
Peak coal - Wikipedia

Fossil fuels also fund people who do not like us very much. Think of Russian gas funding their Ukrainian war, and all those countries in the Middle East that do not approve of western freedom!

It won't do much good to try to save the earth by starving to death humanity that God created it for.
Yeah, we've been over this. If you don't like coal, gas, and oil - there is solar and wind and geothermal and hydro and pumped hydro batteries and nuclear breeder reactors that eat nuclear waste and dozens of other ways of generating all the CLEAN power we need! It's just a myth that our energy intensive agricultural system has to collapse if we give up fossil fuels.

Again, it's going to RUN OUT anyway!
years-of-fossil-fuel-reserves-left.png

Gioietta_1_23.png


Conventional oil has already peaked - which is why we're getting into fracking and tar sands

Hubbert_world_2004.svg.png
 
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rwb

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Dude - until you deal with the "Vault" or "Firmament" and the "Floodgates" and AMEC - you're the one ignoring what the bible actually says!

If you can prove something regarding 'vault' 'firmament' and 'floodgates' from the BIBLE then bring forth the Biblical proof, and we can actually discuss what the Bible teaches! That would indeed be refreshing, to actually discuss the Bible in a Bible forum! What a concept!

Newsflash: that's not the claim!
Newsflash: when they break all records in both maximums and frequency it IS newsworthy as it IS evidence that Eunice Foote was onto something back in 1856, and NASA are onto something when they measure the sun's output and find it constant but the earth's temperature warming.

Records have been broken before:

London’s Great Stink of 1858
This summer heat wave has lived in infamy not only for its soaring temperatures but also for the malodorous stench it unleashed on England’s capital.

The Great New York Heat Wave of 1896
At the end of the 19th century, New York City was home to some 3 million people, many occupying the notoriously cramped and stifling tenements of the Lower East Side and other low-income neighborhoods. When 10 days of relentless heat baked the Big Apple in August 1896

The North American Heat Wave of 1936
In the United States, the timing of the 1936 North American heat wave could not have been worse. Battered by the Great Depression, bled dry by years of drought and blinded by perpetual dust storms

The Chicago Heat Wave of 1995
Like much of the central and eastern United States, Chicago had suffered through the devastating heat waves of 1980 and 1988, which persisted for weeks and caused tens of thousands of fatalities nationwide. But in the summer of 1995, the Windy City lost approximately 700 residents in just five humid and sweltering days–a staggering mortality rate that exposed the city’s inadequate response system while debunking common assumptions about which groups are most susceptible to heat-related death.On July 13, the temperature in the city hit 106 degrees and the heat index, which takes humidity into account to gauge how hot it actually feels, surpassed 120 degrees.

Century-scale Climate Cycles
In addition to multi-millennial glacial and interglacial cycles, there are shorter cold-warm cycles that occur on approximately 200 to 1,500 year time scales. The mechanisms that cause these cycles are not completely understood, but are thought to be driven by changes in the sun, along with several corresponding changes such as ocean circulation patterns (Bond et al. 2001, Wanner et al. 2008). The Medieval Warm Period (900-1300 AD) and the Little Ice Age (1450 to 1900 AD) are examples of warm and cold phases in one of these cycles. Some of these cycles, such as the Medieval Warm Period, may be regional, not necessarily reflecting large changes in global averages. Understanding and reconstructing the regional patterns of climate change during each of these periods is considered very important in accurately analyzing future regional impacts such as drought patterns (Mann et al. 2009).

Interannual to Decadal Climate Cycles
Ocean-atmosphere interactions regularly cause climate cycles on the order of years to decades. One of the most well-known cycles is the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO), an interaction between ocean temperatures and atmospheric patterns (commonly known as El Niño or its opposite effect, La Niña). ENSO events occur every 3 to 7 years, and bring different weather conditions to different parts of the world (NASA 2009). For example, in the U.S., El Niño events can result in a flow of warm dry air into the Northwest, but above average rainfall in the southeast (NASA 2009).

Many other cyclical changes due to oceanic and/or atmospheric processes have been described, such as the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) which occurs in cycles of 25-45 years (Mantua et al. 1997), and the Atlantic Multi-decadal Oscillation (AMO), occurring on approximately 65-85 year cycles (Deser et al. 2010). Scientists are studying how each of these reoccurring cycles might interact with the enhanced greenhouse effect. There is some evidence that global warming may be intensifying ENSO events (Li et al. 2013).[/QUOTE]
 
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"More than 8 million people died in 2018 from fossil fuel pollution, significantly higher than previous research suggested, according to new research from Harvard University, in collaboration with the University of Birmingham, the University of Leicester and University College London. Researchers estimated that exposure to particulate matter from fossil fuel emissions accounted for 18 percent of total global deaths in 2018 — a little less than 1 out of 5.

That number of deaths will be a drop in the bucket if you greenies are allowed to implement some of your crazy ideas. You can't force people to stop farming because farming, according to greenies is one of the biggest contributors for polluting the earth.
Ridiculous! And your answer is artificial food!!! Ridiculous! No thank you! God has shown us how His creation will provide sustenance for humanity.

Genesis 8:21-22 (KJV) And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Genesis 9:1-3 (KJV) And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
 
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eclipsenow

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If you can prove something regarding 'vault' 'firmament' and 'floodgates' from the BIBLE then bring forth the Biblical proof, and we can actually discuss what the Bible teaches!
Could you learn to speak Ancient Hebrew or Greek without an Ancient Hebrew or Greek teacher - just 'from the bible' as you put it? Sometimes one actually needs Hermeneutics to get something right. It's not my fault you don't respect hermeneutics.

This is just what the bible was referencing. The only question is WHY was it referencing AMEC?
Cosmogony1.jpg



That would indeed be refreshing, to actually discuss the Bible in a Bible forum! What a concept!
Yes it would - to actually discuss what Firmament and Floodgates meant, with someone open minded enough to read the evidence.

Records have been broken before:

London’s Great Stink of 1858
This summer heat wave has lived in infamy not only for its soaring temperatures but also for the malodorous stench it unleashed on England’s capital.
Sure - but we're breaking NEW ground - consistent with the radiative forcing of CO2 in a time when no other climate forcings are as pronounced. Physics working? Imagine that?



Century-scale Climate Cycles
In addition to multi-millennial glacial and interglacial cycles, there are shorter cold-warm cycles that occur on approximately 200 to 1,500 year time scales. The mechanisms that cause these cycles are not completely understood, but are thought to be driven by changes in the sun, along with several corresponding changes such as ocean circulation patterns (Bond et al. 2001, Wanner et al. 2008). The Medieval Warm Period (900-1300 AD) and the Little Ice Age (1450 to 1900 AD) are examples of warm and cold phases in one of these cycles. Some of these cycles, such as the Medieval Warm Period, may be regional, not necessarily reflecting large changes in global averages. Understanding and reconstructing the regional patterns of climate change during each of these periods is considered very important in accurately analyzing future regional impacts such as drought patterns (Mann et al. 2009).
Exactly! "such as the Medieval Warm Period, may be regional, not necessarily reflecting large changes in global averages." We're talking about global warming, not local warming to a few European countries that actually do not reflect the global picture from climate proxies back then! The MWP is not a global phenomenon.

Interannual to Decadal Climate Cycles
Ocean-atmosphere interactions regularly cause climate cycles on the order of years to decades. One of the most well-known cycles is the El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO), an interaction between ocean temperatures and atmospheric patterns (commonly known as El Niño or its opposite effect, La Niña). ENSO events occur every 3 to 7 years, and bring different weather conditions to different parts of the world (NASA 2009). For example, in the U.S., El Niño events can result in a flow of warm dry air into the Northwest, but above average rainfall in the southeast (NASA 2009).
Yup! Think of ENSO as waves in a bath. Climate change is someone left the tap on! The interaction between a gradually increasing GLOBAL energy imbalance AND local concentrations of that heat via ocean transport are truly horrific! Climate change = more heat. ENSO = where that heat goes!

Waves in a bath.
Tap on.
Go figure.
 
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rwb

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In His Olivet Discourse Christ says that during this time when the Kingdom is being built as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth there will be various signs, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes, but the end is not yet. IOW our planet should expect to experience these things, and sometimes, as history shows these can be extreme or mild wherever they occur on the planet.

Matthew 24:6-7 (KJV) And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Christ also gives us information about what we might expect as the end and His second coming approaches. Christ says not only will people be eating and drinking right up to the end, as they were in the time of the flood, but that there will also be people plowing in the field and grinding at the mill.

Matthew 24:38-41 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

As in the days of Lot, they eat, drank, bought, sold, PLANTED, and built, so it will be when the Son of man is revealed from heaven. Again, this appears to assure us that man will not so destroy the planet that life does not continue to go on right up to the last day when the Son of man is revealed.

Luke 17:28-30 (KJV) Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

If planet earth is as doomed by manmade causes as you insist it is, why does Christ speak as though this earth, as during the time of the flood, and the destruction of Sodom appears to go on with everyday life as normal right up to the last day? If mankind has not so destroyed the earth through pollution by the last day when Christ comes again, why do you insist we must make such radical changes in our lifestyle? Changes so drastic that if fully implemented in America would bankrupt our country?

Like I've already said, I too believe God having given dominion of the earth to mankind instructs us to care for His creation. I'm so on board with this that we have recently installed very expensive solar panels for our home. Along with doing other things personally to try to cut down on pollution. But the green agenda, whether you believe it or not is designed to bankrupt societies and reduce the population of the earth. This agenda is politically motivated by globalists whose true desire is to rule over the world and implement policies that will cause the deaths of millions through starvation.

You really need to become informed about the globalist's agenda, WEF, Davos, Klaus Swab, the new world order, and how WHO, CDC, Bill Gates and other billionaires, in bed with CCC are enemies of mankind, and plotting to control the world through enacting these green policies.
 
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eclipsenow

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In His Olivet Discourse Christ says that during this time when the Kingdom is being built as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth there will be various signs, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes, but the end is not yet. IOW our planet should expect to experience these things, and sometimes, as history shows these can be extreme or mild wherever they occur on the planet.

Agreed - and being Amil - I see Revelation as describing chaos in nature by quoting 5 of the 10 plagues of Moses being hurled down to earth in judgement. In other words, storms and famines etc are all within the natural parameters of these "Last Days". (Acts 2, Hebrews 1). The thing is climate change makes it worse.

Matthew 24:6-7 (KJV) And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Yes and no.
I see the first half of 24 talking about the Romans conquering Jerusalem and the temple in AD70 - with a few references to the last day thrown in for good measure - and then from THAT DAY being about the last day. There WERE earthquakes and famines around Jerusalem around the Roman conquest.

But it also describes life now. Generally.
Climate change shows that we have the power to make it worse - specifically. In that it 'loads the dice' of weather.


Matthew 24:38-41 (KJV) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Yes. There are so many of us that even if BILLIONS of us die in climate chaos, there will still be people living and marrying and planning for the future.

If planet earth is as doomed by manmade causes as you insist it is, why does Christ speak as though this earth, as during the time of the flood, and the destruction of Sodom appears to go on with everyday life as normal right up to the last day?
There will be some living 'everyday life' - because what other life is there? Life depends on food and economics etc. Even if 'planting' looks quite different today than it did back then! I mean, what modern mills look like 2 women at the mill? They're giant industrial machines now, not little hand mills.

If mankind has not so destroyed the earth through pollution by the last day when Christ comes again, why do you insist we must make such radical changes in our lifestyle?
On this rationale why isn't it wrong to poison a country's farmlands with our industrial pollutants? This passage says SOMEONE will survive it! Why not just dump all our radioactive waste over the peasant's fields? Some will survive it - this passage says so! One could justify all manner of corporate greed or 'cost externalising' on this 'rationale'.

Changes so drastic that if fully implemented in America would bankrupt our country?
So you say.
Solar is now cheaper per kwh than coal to the grid. Couple that with EV's and you're half way there.

But the green agenda, whether you believe it or not is designed to bankrupt societies and reduce the population of the earth.
Rubbish. Who's 'green agenda' is this?
Again, this is like referencing Jonestown to discredit Christianity.

This agenda is politically motivated by globalists whose true desire is to rule over the world and implement policies that will cause the deaths of millions through starvation.
(Sighs)

You really need to become informed
Yeah - if I limit my reading to Alt-Right conspiracy websites, I still wouldn't believe it. People are potential CUSTOMERS. The profit motive says they'd rather trade with or sell to these people. It's time to stop reading all these fake news websites who run on click-bait, and go out and MEET some environmental Christians. You simply don't have a clue about the real world of real scientists, real science, and real mum and pops Christians concerned about climate change. Your reading material is pure fantasy.
 
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