• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

GOD'S LAW AND JUDGEMENT TIME - ARE YOU READY?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, May 10, 2018.

  1. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    The Feasts, Type & Anti-Type; Leviticus 23:4-44

    Type


    Anti-Type

    Passover

    1st Month
    Aviv / Nisan 14th

    Lev. 23:4,5

    “These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.”, “In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.”​

    The Lamb Gotten, 3 1/2 day / years before, & Christ Crucified

    John 1:29,36; 1 Cor. 5:7

    “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.”, “And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!”, “Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:”​

    Unleavened Bread

    1st Month
    Aviv / Nisan 15th to 21st

    Lev. 23:6,7,8

    “And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.”, “In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.”, “But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.”​

    Christ Buried

    1 Cor. 5:8

    “Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.”​

    Firstfruits / Wavesheaf

    1st Month
    Aviv / Nisan 16th

    Lev. 23:10,11,12,13,14

    “Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:”, “And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.”, “And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD.”, “And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.”, “And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.”​

    Christ Resurrected

    1 Cor. 15:20,23

    “But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”, “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”​

    Pentecost, Of Weeks

    7 Sabbaths, plus 1 day, 50 days

    3rd Month
    Sivan [about 4-6th]

    Lev. 23:15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22

    “And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:”, “Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.”, “Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.”, “And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD.”, “Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.”, “And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest.”, “And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.”, “And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.”​

    Christ Anointed in Heaven as High Priest of the Heavenly Sanctuary, in the Holy Place

    Psa. 133:1,2,3; Acts 2:1,33; Heb. 7:26; Rev. 5:6

    A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!”, “It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard: that went down to the skirts of his garments;”, “As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion: for there the LORD commanded the blessing, even life for evermore.”, “And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.”, “Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”, “For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;”, “And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”​
     
  2. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Trumpets

    5 months inclusive [3rd to 7th]

    7th Month
    Ethanim [aka modern Tishri] the 1st

    Lev. 23:24,25

    “Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.”, “Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.”​

    Christ about to move from Holy to Most Holy in heavenly, announcing of coming Judgment, the Advent Movement beginning with William Miller AD 1833/4, this “five months” [from the 3rd month [Sivan / Pentecost] unto the 7th [Ethanim / Tishri]] from AD 31, anti-tyipcally.

    Rev. 9:5,6,10; Luke 1:24; Gen. 7:24, 8:3; 1 Kings 8:2; Joel 1:4, 2:25, etc.

    “And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.”, “And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.”, “And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.”, “And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.”, “And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.”, “And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.”, “And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,”, “And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.”, “And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.”, “And all the men of Israel assembled themselves unto king Solomon at the feast in the month Ethanim, which is the seventh month.”, “That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.”, “And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.”​
     
  3. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Atonement

    7th Month
    Ethanim [aka modern Tishri] the 10th

    Lev. 23:27,28,29,30,31,32

    “Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.”, “And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God.”, “For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people.”, “And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people.”, “Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.”, “It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.”​

    Judgment Begins in Heaven with the Dead, searching the books of records, eventually to come to the Living at the National Sunday Law, and Inter-National Sunday Law, beginning in AD October 22, 1844

    Dan. 7:9,10,22,26; Zec. 3:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10; Mal. 3:3; Matt. 18:21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35, 22:11; Heb. 9:27; Rev. 3:7,8,10, 9:13,14,15, 10:6, 14:6,7,8,9,10,11,12

    “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.”, “A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.”, “Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.”, “But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.”, “And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.”, “And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?”, “Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.”, “And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.”, “And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.”, “And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,”, “Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.”, “Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.”, “For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.”, “In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.”, “And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.”, “Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?”, “Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”, “Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.”, “And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.”, “But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.”, “The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.”, “Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.”, “But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.”, “And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.”, “And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.”, “So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.”, “Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:”, “Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?”, “And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.”, “So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.”, “And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:”, “And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”, “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;”, “I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.”, “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.”, “And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,”, “Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.”, “And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.”, “And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:”, “ And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,”, “Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.”, “And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”, “And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,”, “The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:”, “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”, “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.”​
     
  4. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Tabernacles, Booths, Ingathering

    7th Month
    Ethanim [aka modern Tishri] from the 15th to 22nd


    [7 days and one more, an 8th]
    Lev. 23:34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44

    “Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.”, “On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.”, “Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.”, “These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day:”, “Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD.”, “Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.”, “And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days.”, “And ye shall keep it a feast unto the LORD seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month.”, “Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths:”, “That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.”, “And Moses declared unto the children of Israel the feasts of the LORD.”​

    The 3 Angels & 4th are the Reapers to gather ...

    Christ comes for the final in-gathering of the Saints from Earth, unto Heaven [7 day trip, etc], soon and very soon ...

    Rev. 14:14,15,16,17,18,19,20

    “And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.”, “And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”, “And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.”, “And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.”, “And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.”, “And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.”, “And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.”​
     
  5. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    The "five months" of Revelation 9:5,6,10; Genesis 7:24, 8:3; Luke 1:24 deal with anti-typical feast time, from the days of Pentecost unto Trumpets, notice:

    Just as Daniel and Revelation are built in the Structure of the 7 Branch Candlestick [Psalms 77:13 KJB], so too are the Feasts themselves:

    [​IMG]

    The First Book Of Daniel

    Daniel 4:1-37; Daniel 3:1-30; Daniel 2:1-49; Daniel 1:1-21; Daniel 7:1-28; Daniel 6:1-28; Daniel 5:1-31

    In order:

    Daniel 4:1-37 -- King, Everlasting Gospel, Saved

    Daniel 3:1-30 -- Law, Test, Worship, 1st Amendment

    Daniel 2:1-49 -- Vision, Kingdoms Of Earth To Heaven

    Daniel 1:1-21 -- Captivity To Release

    Daniel 7:1-28 -- Vision, Kingdoms Of Earth To Heaven

    Daniel 6:1-28 -- Law, Test, Worship, 1st Amendment

    Daniel 5:1-31-- King, Everlasting Gospel, Lost

    The Revelation Of Jesus Christ

    Rev. 1:1-5:14; Rev. 6:1-8:1; Rev. 8:2-11:19; Rev. 12:1-14:20; Rev. 15:1-19:21; Rev. 20:1-15; Rev. 21:1-22:21

    Revelation 1:1-5:14 -- The 7 Churches


    Revelation 6:1-8:1 -- The 7 Seals

    Revelation 8:2-11:19 -- The 7 Trumpets

    Revelation 12:1-14:20 -- The Great Controversy

    Revelation 15:1 - 19:21 -- The 7 Last Plagues

    Revelation 20:1-15 -- The 1,000 Years

    Revelation 21:1-22:21 -- The New Jerusalem


    The Feasts of the LORD

    1 - 1 - 1 - 3 - 7 - 7 - 7

    The Passover (1st Month (Abib), 14th day, at even) - Leviticus 23:4-5 KJB

    Unleavened Bread (1st Month (Abib), 15th day unto 21st day (7 days), a yearly feastal sabbath) - Leviticus 23:6-8 KJB​

    Firstfruits/Wavesheaf (1st Month (Abib), 16th day, on the morrow after the sabbath) - Leviticus 23:9-14 KJB​

    Pentecost/Feast of Weeks (3rd Month (Sivan), 50 days (7 complete Sabbath's (7*7=49) and unto the morrow after the 7th Sabbath (49+1=50)) - Leviticus 23:15-22 KJB​

    Trumpets (7th Month (Ethanim), 1st day) - Leviticus 23:23-25 KJB​

    Atonement (7th Month (Ethanim), 10th day, yearly festal sabbath, in the 9th day, even unto even) - Leviticus 23:26-32 KJB​

    Booths/Tabernacles/Ingathering (7th Month (Ethanim), 15th day unto 21st day (7 days), and an 8th day (the 1st and 8th being a yearly festal sabbath)) - Leviticus 23:33-44 KJB

    Spring:

    Passover - [1st month, day 14]
    Unleavened Bread [1 month, day 15-21]
    Firstfruits/Wavesheaf [1 month, day 16]

    Pentecost [3 month, day 5ish]

    [Now, catch this, the "five months" are antitypical Feast time ...]

    Pentecost began in the Month 3, now let's count:

    Month 3 [Pentecost] = 1
    Month 4 [no feasts] = 2
    Month 5 [no feasts] = 3
    Month 6 [no feasts] = 4
    Month 7 [Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Tabernacles] = 5 [months, inclusive]

    Fall:

    Trumpets [7 month, day 1]
    Day of Atonement [7 month, day 10] [YOU ARE HERE in ANTI-TYPOLOGICAL FEAST TIME]
    Tabernacles/Booths/Ingathering [7 month, day 15-21,22]​
     
  6. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +2,685
    Christian
    Married
    So in responding to the charge that the Adventist interpretation of Daniel 8 skips the context which shows that what is cleansed is due to the activity of the little horn, you post some 21 lengthy posts. And you insist that Daniel 8 must be the Day of Atonement.

    But you don't explain why the cleansing is from the activity of the little horn. You don't explain that the daily was taken away by the little horn, which is why the questions asks until when.

    No amount of obfuscation will settle that question.

    You posted chiastic structures, descriptions of the fulfillment of the Spring feasts, etc. But you didn't explain the context speaking of something totally different than the DOA.

    And I already addressed the clean sanctuary animals. They are the animals offered at the inauguration, and offered at the re-consecration after defilement.

    The cleansing in chapter 8 is not a Day of Atonement. It is from the activities of the little horn, not the sins of all God's people.

    The cleansing, and the images of a ram and a goat are in line with other passages that speak of cleansing of the sanctuary when it needs cleansing from foreign pollution or encroachment.


    In the time of Hezekiah it had to be cleansed:


    2Ch 29:3 He in the first year of his reign, in the first month, opened the doors of the house of the LORD, and repaired them.
    2Ch 29:4 And he brought in the priests and the Levites, and gathered them together into the east street,
    2Ch 29:5 And said unto them, Hear me, ye Levites, sanctify now yourselves, and sanctify the house of the LORD God of your fathers, and carry forth the filthiness out of the holy place.
    2Ch 29:6 For our fathers have trespassed, and done that which was evil in the eyes of the LORD our God, and have forsaken him, and have turned away their faces from the habitation of the LORD, and turned their backs.
    2Ch 29:7 Also they have shut up the doors of the porch, and put out the lamps, and have not burned incense nor offered burnt offerings in the holy place unto the God of Israel.

    2Ch 29:16 And the priests went into the inner part of the house of the LORD, to cleanse it, and brought out all the uncleanness that they found in the temple of the LORD into the court of the house of the LORD. And the Levites took it, to carry it out abroad into the brook Kidron.
    2Ch 29:17 Now they began on the first day of the first month to sanctify, and on the eighth day of the month came they to the porch of the LORD: so they sanctified the house of the LORD in eight days; and in the sixteenth day of the first month they made an end.
    2Ch 29:18 Then they went in to Hezekiah the king, and said, We have cleansed all the house of the LORD, and the altar of burnt offering, with all the vessels thereof, and the shewbread table, with all the vessels thereof.
    2Ch 29:19 Moreover all the vessels, which king Ahaz in his reign did cast away in his transgression, have we prepared and sanctified, and, behold, they are before the altar of the LORD.


    The sacrifice involved rams and he goats:

    2Ch 29:21 And they brought seven bullocks, and seven rams, and seven lambs, and seven he goats, for a sin offering for the kingdom, and for the sanctuary, and for Judah. And he commanded the priests the sons of Aaron to offer them on the altar of the LORD.


    This passage describes the restoration of the temple after a time where it had been abandoned and foreign items were put in it that polluted it, likely idols, since they had turned away from God.

    It is speaking of restoration of the temple following that. It includes the ram and goat as sacrifices.

    Also, John makes reference to the feast of dedication, remembering the re-dedication after the defilement of Antiochus:

    Joh 10:22 At that time the Feast of Dedication took place at Jerusalem. It was winter


    You can read about the beginning of this service in the historical record in 1 Mac.

    1Ma 4:36 Then said Judas and his brethren, Behold, our enemies are discomfited: let us go up to cleanse and dedicate the sanctuary.
    1Ma 4:37 Upon this all the host assembled themselves together, and went up into mount Sion.
    1Ma 4:38 And when they saw the sanctuary desolate, and the altar profaned, and the gates burned up, and shrubs growing in the courts as in a forest, or in one of the mountains, yea, and the priests' chambers pulled down;
    1Ma 4:39 They rent their clothes, and made great lamentation, and cast ashes upon their heads,
    1Ma 4:40 And fell down flat to the ground upon their faces, and blew an alarm with the trumpets, and cried toward heaven.
    1Ma 4:41 Then Judas appointed certain men to fight against those that were in the fortress, until he had cleansed the sanctuary.
    1Ma 4:42 So he chose priests of blameless conversation, such as had pleasure in the law:
    1Ma 4:43 Who cleansed the sanctuary, and bare out the defiled stones into an unclean place.
    1Ma 4:44 And when as they consulted what to do with the altar of burnt offerings, which was profaned;
    1Ma 4:45 They thought it best to pull it down, lest it should be a reproach to them, because the heathen had defiled it: wherefore they pulled it down,
    1Ma 4:46 And laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, until there should come a prophet to shew what should be done with them.
    1Ma 4:47 Then they took whole stones according to the law, and built a new altar according to the former;
    1Ma 4:48 And made up the sanctuary, and the things that were within the temple, and hallowed the courts.
    1Ma 4:49 They made also new holy vessels, and into the temple they brought the candlestick, and the altar of burnt offerings, and of incense, and the table.
    1Ma 4:50 And upon the altar they burned incense, and the lamps that were upon the candlestick they lighted, that they might give light in the temple.
    1Ma 4:51 Furthermore they set the loaves upon the table, and spread out the veils, and finished all the works which they had begun to make.
    1Ma 4:52 Now on the five and twentieth day of the ninth month, which is called the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and eighth year, they rose up betimes in the morning,
    1Ma 4:53 And offered sacrifice according to the law upon the new altar of burnt offerings, which they had made.
    1Ma 4:54 Look, at what time and what day the heathen had profaned it, even in that was it dedicated with songs, and citherns, and harps, and cymbals.
    1Ma 4:55 Then all the people fell upon their faces, worshipping and praising the God of heaven, who had given them good success.
    1Ma 4:56 And so they kept the dedication of the altar eight days and offered burnt offerings with gladness, and sacrificed the sacrifice of deliverance and praise.
    1Ma 4:57 They decked also the forefront of the temple with crowns of gold, and with shields; and the gates and the chambers they renewed, and hanged doors upon them.
    1Ma 4:58 Thus was there very great gladness among the people, for that the reproach of the heathen was put away.
    1Ma 4:59 Moreover Judas and his brethren with the whole congregation of Israel ordained, that the days of the dedication of the altar should be kept in their season from year to year by the space of eight days, from the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, with mirth and gladness.


    Both in Hezekiah's cleansing and in the re-dedication during the time of Judas Maccabaeus the issue was foreign pollution of or encroachment upon the sanctuary. It was not the same as the ritual purification of the sanctuary on the day of atonement from the sins of the camp.

    In the same way the description in Daniel 8 is speaking about restoration from the activities of the little horn.

    The whole chapter has been about national powers, culminating in the little horn who has trampled on the sanctuary, resulting in a need for its restoration.

    So whatever one's view may be on the little horn power and its activities, the context is still about this activity and its impact on the sanctuary. It is not about the cultic cleansing of all the sins of the professed people of God.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  7. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +2,685
    Christian
    Married

    It is fitting that you start your defense by jumping right to the question, without the lead-up describing the activity of the little horn that the question refers to.

    That is what the entire Adventist doctrine does.




    The Seminary brethren had me read a 600 page dissertation completely on this one word. And why? Because they want to find a link to the Day of Atonement. But of course, it doesn't matter if you translate it restore, cleanse, justify, etc. Because it is talking about correcting the activity of the little horn, not the sins of all the saints.

    The context was ignored by Ellen White, and ever since Adventists have run with it.
     
  8. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +2,685
    Christian
    Married
    We agree that the Spring feasts were fulfilled.

    And we agree that the fall feasts must occur later in their proper time.

    However, would you not also agree that Jesus' sacrifice was once for all, and fulfilled all the sacrifices of all the appointed times?

    If so then parts of all these feasts were fulfilled at the cross, because that was the only time they could be. Jesus offered one sacrifice that fulfilled all the various sacrifices in the type.

    So the sacrifices offered during the Passover, the Day of Atonement, the feast of tabernacles were all fulfilled by the one sacrifice of Christ.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • List
  9. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    The Investigative Judgment:

    Revelation 14:6 KJB - And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

    Revelation 14:7 KJB - Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.​

    Revelation 14:6, reveals that a great message goes forth “unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people”, and this great message is the “Everlasting Gospel” itself.

    Please notice that while the “Everlasting Gospel” is going forth unto the whole world [which means that repentance and salvation is still being offered through the love and mercy of God] it contains a specific message, which involves the [his] “judgment” of God which begins at a specific time, “the hour of His judgment is come”. Notice, not “will” come, or “already had” taken place, but this is present tense [“is come”] at the time of the preaching, and is not after probation closes for men, therefore it is even as it was in the days of Noah.

    In the Book of Daniel we see this same Judgment going forward at a very specific time.

    Daniel 7:9 KJB - I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

    Daniel 7:10 KJB - A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. Daniel 7:10

    Daniel 7:22 KJB - “Until the Ancient of days came ...”

    Daniel 7:26 KJB - “But the judgment shall sit ...”​

    We can know that a particular Judgment, which takes place in Heaven, begins after a certain time, and before the 2nd Coming of Jesus.

    [1] The Lion with Eagles wings comes first, [Daniel 7:4 KJB], The Kingdom of Babylon, which was from 605 BC – 539/8 BC

    [2] The Bear raised up on one side with three ribs, [Daniel 7:5 KJB], The Kingdom of Medo-Persia, which was from 539/8 BC – 331 BC.

    [3] The Leopard with 4 Heads and 4 Wings, [Daniel 7:6 KJB], The Kingdom of Greece and its division, which was from 331 BC – 168 BC.

    [4] The Dreadful Terrible Beast with Iron Teeth, Brass Claws, [Daniel 7:7 KJB], The Kingdom of Pagan Rome, before its division, which was from 168 BC – AD 476

    [5] The Dreadful Terrible Beast with Iron Teeth, Brass Claws, then goes into division, with the Ten Horns, [Daniel 7:7 KJB], during the division of the Pagan Roman Empire, which was from AD 476 – AD 508/538.

    [6] The Dreadful Terrible Beast with Iron Teeth, Brass Claws, in its division, then another different power arises from the division, an eleventh horn, the Papal Rome, uproots three of the ten, and becomes the 8th. This power was seen in the days of the Apostles, but was withheld by the Caesars in power, until finally it gained the power of the state, taking the place of the Caesars in Rome, 508/538 AD and rules for 1,260 & 1,290 years [Daniel 7:21,25, 12:7; Revelation 11:2,3, 12:6,13, 13:5; Luke 21:22-24 KJB] until AD 1798, where it received a deadly wound from the atheistic France [Revelation 11:7-13 KJB], under Napoleon and his general Alexander Berthier. Thus the 1,260 [from AD 538] and 1,290 [from AD 508] ended in AD 1798 [Daniel 11:40[a] KJB], and the 1,335 [from AD 508], ended in AD 1843. The 2,300 [Daniel 8:14 KJB, from 457 BC] was coming to its end... AD 1844 approached [Daniel 7:26 KJB].

    [7] “I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit … the judgment was set, and the books were opened.” [Daniel 7:9-10 KJB], the Judgment was set in Heaven in AD 1844, as was foretold/typified by the Feasts of Leviticus 23 and 16, the Day of Atonement. These books are searched by the angelic hosts, and whosoever name was not "found" [Daniel 12:1 KJB] therein, would not be delievered.

    [8] We can see that the Judgment is going on in Heaven, while the 4th Beast and its last [revived, Revelation 13 & 17 KJB] form is still on earth, and still blaspheming God, [Daniel 7:11 KJB].​
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  10. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    This same may be witnessed again in Daniel 8, further in 9 and 10-12.

    Further texts that reveal the Investigative Judgment is found in the Gospels, wherein Jesus speaks a Parable about the Marriage, of Jesus to His City/Kingdom in Heaven [“far country” "the end of heaven" - Luke 19:12; Isaiah 13:5 KJB]:

    Matthew 22:1 KJB - And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

    Matthew 22:2 KJB - The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

    Matthew 22:3 KJB - And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

    [God sent forth Prophets/Messengers]
    Matthew 22:4 KJB - Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and [my] fatlings [are] killed, and all things [are] ready: come unto the marriage.

    Matthew 22:5 KJB - But they made light of [it], and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

    Matthew 22:6KJB - And the remnant took his servants, and entreated [them] spitefully, and slew [them].

    Matthew 22:7 KJB - But when the king heard [thereof], he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

    [Destruction of Jerusalem, AD 70]
    Matthew 22:8 KJB - Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

    Matthew 22:9 KJB - Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

    [The Gospel went to the Gentiles... through Paul and the Dispersion...]
    Matthew 22:10 KJB - So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

    Matthew 22:11 KJB - And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

    [The King of Heaven, sees, looks or investigates all those that were brought, both the “bad and good”, in other words those that claim to be Christians, the Tares and the Wheat; Matthew 13:25,29,30 KJB]
    Matthew 22:12 KJB - And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

    [Christ provided the wedding Garment to all, but some while claiming to be Christian are not wearing Christ's Righteousness, but their own works...]
    Matthew 22:13 KJB -Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Matthew 22:14 KJB - For many are called, but few [are] chosen.
    Notice, that while the Wedding of Jesus to His city/kingdom goes on in Heaven, wherein He will receive his Kingdom [Daniel 7:14 KJB, which comes after the Judgment had already began and was going forward, Daniel 7:9-10 KJB], there is an investigation of who is worthy of all that claim to be part of that inheritance.

    Isaiah 62:4 KJB - Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

    Isaiah 62:5 KJB - For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
    A King/Head, marries the Kingdom [King's Dominion, the Body].
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  11. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    This judgment is witnessed in Matthew 18 and elsewhere:

    Matthew 18:27 KJB - Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.​

    This debtor was loosed by the compassion of the Lord and all his past sins were forgiven him by the Lord.

    Yet, we see by the very texts in continuing, these sins, though forgiven, were not yet blotted out, but remained for the Lord to deal with, and could be re-instated if unfaithful of the grace bestowed, or uncaring of the responsibility given in newness.

    We see that "all" the "debt" was "forgiven", but because of the servants attitude and behaviour in probationary time, failed of the grace of received, and was to then pay all.

    Matthew 18:32 KJB - Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:​

    Notice, the previous debt is re-instated to his account, in addition to that which the servant committed since then.

    Matthew 18:34 KJB - And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.​
     
  12. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    [1] According to the following passage{s} {Daniel 12:1; see also Luke 13:25 in conjunction, and Ecclesiastes 12:14; Malachi 3:16; Isaiah 65:6-7; Revelation 22:11 KJB}, how shall it be known to all who is to be delivered?

    Daniel 12:1 KJB - And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    [In order to be "found written in the book [of the Life of the Lamb]", what needed to be done beforehand, and who needed to do the finding of those names in the book? See Daniel 7:9-10 KJB]

    Daniel 7:9 KJB - I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

    Daniel 7:10 KJB - A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
    Luke 13:25 KJB - When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

    Ecclesiastes 12:14 KJB - For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

    Malachi 3:16 KJB - Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

    Isaiah 65:6 KJB - Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

    Isaiah 65:7 KJB - Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

    Revelation 22:11 KJB - He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.​
     
  13. The7thColporteur

    The7thColporteur Well-Known Member

    +238
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    Perhaps it is the word "Investigative" that is the issue with so many, since they cannot seem to find it in the KJB, but perhaps if they might look in the many other English translations to which they themselves trust in:

    For instance, Daniel 9:10 - Daniel 7:10 - Bible Gateway -

    [MSG] - “As I was watching all this, “Thrones were set in place and The Old One sat down. His robes were white as snow, his hair was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, its wheels blazing. A river of fire poured out of the throne. Thousands upon thousands served him, tens of thousands attended him. The courtroom was called to order, and the books were opened.

    [NOG] - "A river of fire flowed. It came from him. Thousands and thousands served him. Ten thousand times ten thousand were stationed in front of him. The court convened, and the books were opened."

    [ISV] - "A river of fire flowed out from before him. Thousands upon thousands were serving him, with millions upon millions waiting before him. The court sat in judgment, and record books were unsealed."

    [GNT] - "and a stream of fire was pouring out from it. There were many thousands of people there to serve him, and millions of people stood before him. The court began its session, and the books were opened."​

    etc ...

    God gave us a type of how God operates in Heaven:

    Deuteronomy 13:14 KJB - Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

    Deuteronomy 13:14 - Deuteronomy 13:14 - Bible Gateway

    [AMP] - "then you shall investigate and search out [witnesses] and ask thorough questions. If it is true and the matter is established that this loathsome thing has been done among you,"

    [CSB] - "you are to inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. If the report turns out to be true that this detestable act has been done among you,"

    [HCSB] - "you are to inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. If the report turns out to be true that this detestable thing has happened among you,"

    etc., etc. ...
    Deuteronomy 19:18 KJB - And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;

    Deuteronomy 19:18 - Deuteronomy 19:18 - Bible Gateway

    [AMP] - "The judges shall investigate thoroughly, and if the witness is a false witness, and he has accused his brother falsely,"

    [CSB] - "The judges are to make a careful investigation, and if the witness turns out to be a liar who has falsely accused his brother,"

    [CJB] - "The judges are to investigate carefully. If they find that the witness is lying and has given false testimony against his brother,"

    [HCSB] - "The judges are to make a careful investigation, and if the witness turns out to be a liar who has falsely accused his brother,"

    etc, etc ...
    Even, at least one, use the exact word:

    [OJB] - "thought it expedient also, having done an iyun (investigative research), accurately and carefully being meayen (engaged in research) in every source and making a medakdeke (pain-stakingly thorough) investigation of every aspect from HaReshit (the Beginning), to write for you and to mesader (arrange, place in succession) an orderly account, most noble Theophilus,"
    What will these people say, when God asks them why they did not believe, and why they taught contrary to His word?

    Psalms 9:12 KJB - When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble.​

    God is already making inquisition, an investigation, for blood, upon all those of the past who have professed His name, and will He find "blood" on their garments, on their hands, will He find the blood of others upon them? Soon, God will turn from those who have died in profession to those living ...
     
  14. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Goodness, I have only been away a few days and already so far behind here. Ok will post when I can nice to see you guys are active. May take some time to catch up as I have some other things I need to attend to at the same time. Will post when I can.

    Blessings
     
  15. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hello tall, thanks for your thoughts here.

    Please forgive me as I have not been active of late due to some other things happening at home.

    We are getting a little ahead of ourselves here as Daniel 8 (either Daniel 7 really) has not been covered yet in this thread. Anyhow, since you wish to move on from your posts in Daniel 7. We can discuss what you have posted here. I am still behind and need to catch up on the posting so have not read everything here as yet.

    Just an observation please correct me if I am not correct. From your posts (which I am trying to catch up on) you seem to be a Desmond Ford follower who was disfellowshipped from the SDA Church in the 80’s? Please correct me if I am wrong here and jumping to conclusions. As your teachings seem to be the same. Is this observation correct? Anyhow no worries this is only a side issue.

    I think I have a better indication of where you are coming from now and more in relation to your background and why you decided to leave the Church. For me I would rather deal with scriptures. So, let’s examine what you are sharing here.

    Yea not really, the problem was they went out from us because they were not of us and did not understand these scriptures.

    Ok but just to be clear it is not talking about a daily ministration is it? It is the daily sacrifice connected to the Sanctuary that was taken away and the place of his Sanctuary was cast down.

    Indeed so here it is saying a number of things firstly as you have correctly pointed out in v13 the question is asked

    How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?”

    So let’s keep with the context here so we are highlighting what is being described;

    * It is the little horn power that is described as coming up out of one of the four kings of the broken horns of Greece v8-9.

    * It is the little horn power that is described as waxing exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. v9

    * It is the little horn power that waxed great, even to the host of Heaven and the stars casting them to the ground and stamping or trampling them underfoot. v10

    * It is the little horn power that has taken away the daily sacrifice and cast down the place of the Sanctuary v11

    * It is the little horn power that was given a host against the daily sacrifice of the Sanctuary by reason of transgression and cast the truth to the ground and prospered doing so.

    Now note the question that is being asked here.

    DANIEL 8:13-14 [13], Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said to that certain saint which spoke, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [14], And he said to me, To two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

    So as you have correctly pointed out here we are talking about the restoration of the daily sacrifice and the restoration of the Heavenly Sanctuary from the little horn. The scriptures are talking about the restoration of the Heavenly Sanctuary services and the daily sacrifice for forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ. How long will God’s truth be cast down? 2300 days was the answer.

    This prophecy is showing that the power of the Roman pagan/papal system to trample Christ’s sacrifice and the ministration of the Heavenly Sanctuary and God’s truth underfoot would be 2300 days (evenings and mornings).

    What might be good to establish are the following questions from Daniel 7 and Daniel 8;

    Who do you believe the little horn represents?
    How does the little horn speak great things against the Most high?
    How does the little horn cast down thrones and the host and stars of heaven?
    How does the little horn trample and take away the daily sacrifice and Sanctuary?
    How does the little horn magnify himself against the prince of the host?
    How are the saints persecuted?
    How did dose the little horn think to change times and laws?
    How does the little horn cast down God’s truth?

    Answering these question would help the conversation here.
     
  16. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Sorry tall, Daniel 8:14 is speaking about the restoration of the Sanctuary, the daily sacrifice and God’s truth that is being trodden underfoot by the little horn power. It is speaking about the sins of God’s people as the truth of the heavenly Sanctuary is brought back and restored to its rightful understanding at the end of the 2300 days/year prophecy.

    This includes the understanding to God’s people on Christ’s work on their behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary and the great anti-typical day of atonement of which the earthly was pointing to.

    Unto 2300 days then shall the Sanctuary be made right, restored or cleansed.

    The earthly Sanctuary is a copy of the Heavenly and this points to Christs work on our behalf and the cleansing of the Sanctuary from sin in the anti-typical day of atonement which is separate from the daily evening and morning sacrifices.

    Let's link the parallel scriptures from Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 which tell the story.

    Origin of the little horn which comes out of the 4th beast

    DANIEL 7:7-8 [7], After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. [8], I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

    links to

    DANIEL 8:9-12 [9], And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which grew exceedingly great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the glorious land. [10], And it grew great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground and stamped upon them. [11] Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. [12], And a host was given him to oppose the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it did this and prospered.

    The little horn is judged and God's saints are determined and the Kingdom given to the Saints of God

    DANIEL 7:24-27 [24], And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. [25], And he shall speak great words against the most High and shall wear out the saints of the most High and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. [26], But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it to the end. [27], And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

    Parallel event from Daniel 8

    DANIEL 8:13-14 [13], Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint who spoke, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [14], And he said unto me, For two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

    links to Daniel 7:9-13 Judgement of the little horn and the people of God.

    DANIEL 7:9-10 [9], I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. [10], A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered to him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

    God’s saints are determined at the Judgement and found in the opened book of life.

    DANIEL 12:1 [1], And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of your people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    REVELATION 3:5 He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

    REVELATION 13:8 And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    REVELATION 17:8 The beast that you saw was and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    REVELATION 21:27, And there shall in no wise enter into it anything that defiles, neither whatever works abomination, or makes a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

    …………..

    Back to Daniel

    DANIEL 8:13- 14 [13], Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint who spoke, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [14], And he said unto me, For two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

    So why the links between Daniel 7 and Daniel 8? Paying close attention to both sets of scriptures from Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 in relation to the little horn and God’s judgement you can see these are parallel scriptures and events described in a different way. The context in both events is the rising of the world empires leading to the successional rise of the little horn and what the little horn does followed by the judgement.

    It is only after the rise of the little horn who;

    * Speaks great things against the most high 7v8; 7v25
    * Casts down thrones, hosts and the stars of heaven 7v9; 8v10
    * Tramples on the daily sacrifice and the Sanctuary and God’s truth 8v11
    * Magnifies himself even to the prince of the host 8v11
    * Has power to persecutes the saints of the most high 7v21-25
    * Thinks to change times and laws 7v25

    that the question is asked, “How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot” 8v13 and the answer was given v14 “two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.”

    This was parallel to Daniel 7:9-10 … ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened once again after the establishment and actions of the little horn described in Daniel 7:8-8 and Daniel 7:21-27.

    This is not talking about a cleansing of the temple from the defilement of the little horn as it is a reference to the Heavenly Sanctuary not the earthly Sanctuary. It is talking about the restoration of God’s truth of the daily sacrifice for sin and the restoration of the Heavenly Sanctuary and understanding of Christs ministration as our great high priest and the anti-typical day of atonement outlined in Leviticus.

    Judgement is set 7v9-10 the Sanctuary restored, and sins cleansed from the Sanctuary in Heaven and every case decided for or against at the judgement for those written in the book of life. Those written in the book of life receive the everlasting kingdom which is given to the Saints v27.

    Hope this is helpful
     
  17. Drought of the Heart

    Drought of the Heart Active Member Supporter

    366
    +247
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Amen every knee will bow
     
  18. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    @The7thColporteur hey T7C nice to see you. It would be good to put some of your antitypical posts you have provided in the COL 2 thread if you have some time. I have not read everything yet but I can see there is some nice stuff there that is relevant in the Shadow law thread.

    God bless thanks for sharing :wave:
     
  19. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,235
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    The sacrifices were indeed fulfilled in Chirst but not the cleansing of the Sanctuary for the sins of God's people. The earlthty day of atonement took please once a year to remove the sins of God's people that accumlated throughout the year.

    This was to take place to remove all sin once and for all from the presence of God and why the sacrifice of Christ was required in the first place.

    Scripture shows this is only completed prior to the second coming at the antitypical day of atonement of which the earlthy represented and points to.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  20. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    +2,685
    Christian
    Married
    Welcome back
    No, he was not disfellowshipped in the 80's. However, his ministerial credentials were removed, and then later he resigned his membership I think a couple of decades later.

    And no, I am not a follower of Desmond Ford. I didn't read Ford until long after I had come to my conclusions. And Ford actually has a very odd teaching called the apotelesmatic principle if I recall correctly, where he has two meanings to the text. So he still rejects certain Adventist teachings on the sanctuary and prophetic scheme, then brings them back a bit a different way. And I think that part of his teaching was a large part of what led to people not making much headway with the Glacierview meeting. Some of the people who were advising him, I think from the GC, but it has been a while since I read up on it, told him to leave that part out and just highlight some of the questions about the doctrine. But instead he made such a massive book for everyone to read, that few read it.

    By the way, I did years later have a few exchanges with Ford. He is a sincere guy. And the first couple chapters of his book ask a lot of good questions.

    Incidentally, he agreed in principle to debate Davidson or some of the Seminary folks, and was willing to do it here on CF, but they declined.


    Totally wrong, but thanks. And about half of the pastors I talked to had issues on the subject as well. They just didn't leave. It doesn't take an ex-Adventist expert to find them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
Loading...