Yeshua HaDerekh

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You have again confused expounding verses with "changing" them.
Teaching is not "changing"....
Try to understand.

I am not confused at all. You QUOTED a scripture in which you changed/added a phrase that was not in the original text. Just admit it...
 
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Behold

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I am not confused at all. You QUOTED a scripture in which you changed/added a phrase that was not in the original text. Just admit it...

You never quoted it.

"just admit it".

Your only evidence is..."yeah, you said it"....

so, When you quote it, we can then find out where you became so confused.

Anytime you are ready...

If i can make it easier...
Just try to remember a part of the verse.
If you can do that, i will know the verse and we can then find out where and why you became so freaked out.
I can help.
But i need the verse, Haderekh
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You never quoted it.

"just admit it".

Your only evidence is..."yeah, you said it"....

so, When you quote it, we can then find out where you became so confused.

Anytime you are ready...

If i can make it easier...
Just try to remember a part of the verse.
If you can do that, i will know the verse and we can then find out where and why you became so freaked out.
I can help.
But i need the verse, Haderekh

I don't need to, ANYONE can go back and see it. Just admit you inserted a phrase that was not in the original scripture and we can move on. It is that easy. Stop being dishonest, you know exactly what verse...I will not play your games
 
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Behold

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I don't need to, ANYONE can go back and see it. Just admit you inserted a phrase that was not in the original scripture and we can move on. It is that easy. Stop being dishonest, you know exactly what verse...I will not play your games

You mean i expounded a verse and you dont understand what im doing, even tho i explained this to you a week ago when you started this obsessive rant?
So, as i told you yesterday, if you will just post the verse, i can help you to understand how a teacher teaches a verse, which is not the same as just posting the verses.
And, Yes, i agree that you became confused about this and have continued to be so, ... probably even for the next month.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You mean i expounded a verse and you dont understand what im doing, even tho i explained this to you a week ago when you started this obsessive rant?
So, as i told you yesterday, if you will just post the verse, i can help you to understand how a teacher teaches a verse, which is not the same as just posting the verses.
And, Yes, i agree that you became confused about this and have continued to be so, ... probably even for the next month.

I know exactly what you were doing! You QUOTED a verse from scripture and changed it to suite your theology. All of your excuses will not change that.
 
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Behold

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I know exactly what you were doing! You QUOTED a verse from scripture and changed it to suite your theology. All of your excuses will not change that.

You can't quote the verse.
So, run along, as your false pretense, has made you seem small.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You can't quote the verse.
So, run along, as your false pretense, has made you seem small.

I have listed the scripture and the post in previous responses, anyone who is interested can go find it. What I won't do is provide you any reason for any further "teaching" and excuses for you to post here.
 
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fhansen

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The wonder of God's Grace, that many will never understand, is..... To be accepted by God, we have to be as Sinless as Christ. Otherwise, GOD can't have us, or take us.

Listen..
We have to be of EQUAL RIGHTEOUSNESS To God, before we can go to heaven.
This has to happen BEFORE WE DIE.
Enter...........THE CROSS.
The Cross, is the Finished work of Jesus, that is proven to be true by the Resurrection of The Christ from the Dead.
And what else does it prove? It proves that if you are born again, you are just as Righteous as God, .. being MADE Righteous by the Blood Atonement. "The GIFT of Righteousness".
When does that end? It ends when God dies.
You'll be just as Righteous as God, "The righteousness of God, In Christ" for as long as God LIVES.
This is how long the effect of being made righteous by the BLOOD ATONEMENT, will last.
Thats why its called "Eternal Life".

"but what if i sin"....
You already have, hundreds of times.
"well what if i forgot to repent hundreds of times' ??
What if you did?
Are you born again? Then THAT is why go to heaven, not because you carefully remember all your sin and repent of them one by one.

Consider this..
You are the Righteousness of God in Christ, ALWAYS...
Saint....Think about that the next time you are repenting and confessing, and you just might begin to come into your first actual understanding of the GRACE OF GOD.
The problem with this is that God never made man to be a sinner to begin with; everything He creates is good-and the purpose of Jesus, by reconciling man with God, is actually to restore authentic righteousness, the "righteousness of God" that man was created for, rather than to simply and suddenly ignore the matter of unrighteousness or injustice in man. This restoration takes place as man enters communion with God via faith, a relationship which is the right and just order of things for man, a relationship which Adam essentially spurned for all practical purposes. God can then do His work in us, 'placing his law in our minds and writing it on our hearts' as per Jer 31. Otherwise we're back to Isaiah 5:20:
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."

That confusion, between good and evil, is the inevitable result of thinking that righteousness is only imputed due to Christ's work rather than actually accomplished in us. But with the new birth we're not only forgiven of sin but also washed, cleansed, made new creations. Then we're expected to walk in that justified state, now with the help of God as we remain in partnership with Him, living by the Spirit and not by the flesh, under grace. "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

Faith in no way relieves man of the obligation to be righteous; rather it finally gives us the only true means to achieve it, the right way, now with God rather than apart from Him:
"No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord."
Jer 31:34

"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." Jer 3:34

That knowledge is meant to change us.
 
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Soyeong

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The wonder of God's Grace, that many will never understand, is..... To be accepted by God, we have to be as Sinless as Christ. Otherwise, GOD can't have us, or take us.

Listen..
We have to be of EQUAL RIGHTEOUSNESS To God, before we can go to heaven.
This has to happen BEFORE WE DIE.
Enter...........THE CROSS.
The Cross, is the Finished work of Jesus, that is proven to be true by the Resurrection of The Christ from the Dead.
And what else does it prove? It proves that if you are born again, you are just as Righteous as God, .. being MADE Righteous by the Blood Atonement. "The GIFT of Righteousness".
When does that end? It ends when God dies.
You'll be just as Righteous as God, "The righteousness of God, In Christ" for as long as God LIVES.
This is how long the effect of being made righteous by the BLOOD ATONEMENT, will last.
Thats why its called "Eternal Life".

"but what if i sin"....
You already have, hundreds of times.
"well what if i forgot to repent hundreds of times' ??
What if you did?
Are you born again? Then THAT is why go to heaven, not because you carefully remember all your sin and repent of them one by one.

Consider this..
You are the Righteousness of God in Christ, ALWAYS...
Saint....Think about that the next time you are repenting and confessing, and you just might begin to come into your first actual understanding of the GRACE OF GOD.


In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God’s law was given to instruct how to do. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. Strong's defines “grace” as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His law (Psalms 40:8). So grace is the power of God to overcome lawlessness in our lives and God teaching us to obey His law is itself part of the content of His free gift of salvation.

When we have a character trait, then we will express it through our actions, so to say that God is righteous is to say that He does what is righteous. Christ expressed His righteousness through his actions and what that looked like was obedience to the Mosaic Law, so that is also what it looks like when we are expressing the gift of righteousness.
 
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fhansen

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In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, which is what God’s law was given to instruct how to do. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. Strong's defines “grace” as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His law (Psalms 40:8). So grace is the power of God to overcome lawlessness in our lives and God teaching us to obey His law is itself part of the content of His free gift of salvation.

When we have a character trait, then we will express it through our actions, so to say that God is righteous is to say that He does what is righteous. Christ expressed His righteousness through his actions and what that looked like was obedience to the Mosaic Law, so that is also what it looks like when we are expressing the gift of righteousness.
The ultimate purpose of grace is to produce the love of God in us, as it transforms us into His image. As this love is realized, the greatest commandments are fulfilled, and the Law is thereby automatically fulfilled, the right way. I’ve always appreciated the input of Basil of Caesarea here, a 4th century bishop.

If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.”
 
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Behold

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But with the new birth we're not only forgiven of sin but also washed, cleansed, made new creations. Then we're expected to walk in that justified state,.

Walking in the "Justified state" is automatic, as we are always Justified.
Salvation is "Justification by faith"..
So, the "walking" is discipleship and this is perfected by right believing.

A Christian can believe wrong and their discipleship will reflect this as "confessing, sinning again, and repenting again". This is a believer who is walking in the Flesh.

When a believer is walking in the Spirit, "you shall not sin"....>"shall not commit deeds of the Flesh"....
Walking in the Spirit is to have the right "mind", and that mind is the mind that is created by right believing concerning Colossians 2:13 and Hebrews 10 and Romans 5.

Christians fail to live holy, not because they are "sinners" who are supposed to sin and repent, but because they do not understand God's Grace, and they do not understand how to see themselves ONLY as God sees them.
 
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fhansen

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Walking in the "Justified state" is automatic, as we are always Justified.
Salvation is "Justification by faith"..
So, the "walking" is discipleship and this is perfected by right believing.
No, this walk is not at all guaranteed. And this is why believers are constantly encouraged, exhorted, and warned to walk the walk, only possible to the extent that they remain in Christ, living by the Spirit, "investing" the grace given (Matt 25:14-30). Don't be deceived, we reap what we sow (Gal 6:7). Faith is never an escape form man's obligation to be righteous. God did not create us to be sinners, and His purpose is not to leave us in that state.

With the New Covenant He provides the means for us to be truly justified, to be who He created us to be, the
only authentic means which consists of entering relation or communion with Him via faith, in response to grace, to His overtures. "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5
 
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Behold

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No, this walk is not at all guaranteed.

A few things are guaranteed when you are born again.
I'll list just 2.
One is that you are BORN, into God's Spirit.
This is to be born again. This is to become a "new creation in Christ".
So, can you stop being born?

And the reason you "abide" is...how can you not, if you are BORN?
Being born again, is to be in "spiritual Union" with God, and "ONE" with God and Christ.
This place "In Christ", is created by being Born into it, spiritually.
God does this for us, as "the Gift of Salvation".

Another thing that is guaranteed.... is WHY you are accepted by God.
This has only to do with the "Eternal Redemption" that Christ gained, as a "one time" Sacrifice.
God applies Christ's blood shed redemption that CHRIST GAINED, as "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross" as "the righteousness of God, in Christ" = that is OURS as proven by the fact of being born again.
This belongs to every born again believer..... as its BY THIS Imputed Righteousness that we become a Child of God.
Not by works, but by God's GRACE.

Salvation is Christ earned and God given as a GIFT. "The Gift of Salvation". "The Gift of Righteousness".
Our part is to RECEIVE IT, as our "justification by faith", "without works".
 
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com7fy8

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God does not see your sin.
But Hebrews 12:4-14 says our Father corrects His children.

"For if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (Hebrews 12:8)

If He sees no sin, I would say from this scripture, then He won't see anything needing to be corrected.

Plus, Hebrews 12:9-10 says we need to actively submit to how our Father corrects us. So, I would say, God's word means we need to actively seek God and how He is able to correct us. And it says to do this, "that we may be partakers of His holiness." Plus, His real correction "yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it."

To me, then, it seems this is clear, how we need to actively seek God's correction so we can share with Him in His own holiness in His love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness". If correction is needed in order to get this, I would think this means there still is sin needing correction. And God sees this or why would He think we His children need correction . . . if there is nothing of sin to correct??
 
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Behold

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But Hebrews 12:4-14 says our Father corrects His children.

If you notice your verse, it says that the reason for the "correction", is to achieve a peaceable fruit of righteousness, in other words, to share in God's righteousness.

Yet, we are already a "new Creation" in Christ, born again into God's Spirit, and that is already become "the Righteousness of God, In Christ".

So, Heb 12:6 this is not related to being punished for sin. As How can God punish you for sin when Christ has already been punished for all your sin? Colossians 2:13.
And if you read Romans 4:8, you'll discover that God does not hold you accountable for your sin, in eternity..
And how can He, as He has already died on The Cross for all your sin.
So, when God deals with us, its not about "sin" as He has already dealt with that on the CROSS.

God dealing with us, Heb.12:6 is all about conforming us into less of ourselves and more of Himself.

Paul said...>"its it not I who lives, but Christ who lives IN me".
So, that was not the day after Saul became Paul., but that was after a long conforming process that removed the self righteousness and the "self" that was Paul, and He became more and more like Jesus.
 
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com7fy8

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If you notice your verse, it says that the reason for the "correction", is to achieve a peaceable fruit of righteousness, in other words, to share in God's righteousness.
This is clear; thank you :)

So, Heb 12:6 this is not related to being punished for sin.
I have understood that this correction means changing our character so we are and love like Jesus. But there can be grief and pain in the process, because of our selfish reacting to correction which terminates our selfish stuff. But then we are in God's own love, instead, having Heaven's own pleasant rest and refreshing and we are pleasing to God >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

He cures our character. And I personally now see how the Beatitudes show the target of this correction > I mean how, in His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus starts off with how to be > how our character needs to become "blessed" >

poor in spirit

meek

merciful

pure in heart

All this, I would say, is how righteousness is . . . how God's love is right . . . how Jesus is.
 
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Behold

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He cures our character. And I personally now see how the Beatitudes show the target of this correction > I mean how, in His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus starts off with how to be > how our character needs to become "blessed" >


Christianity is God's eternal provision.
Discipleship is us working out the provision with God's help along the way.
 
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fhansen

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A few things are guaranteed when you are born again.
I'll list just 2.
One is that you are BORN, into God's Spirit.
This is to be born again. This is to become a "new creation in Christ".
So, can you stop being born?
By sinning, i.e. turning back away from God to a life in the flesh. That turning away by an act of disobedience is how Adam died to begin with.
And the reason you "abide" is...how can you not, if you are BORN?
Being born again, is to be in "spiritual Union" with God, and "ONE" with God and Christ.
This place "In Christ", is created by being Born into it, spiritually.
God does this for us, as "the Gift of Salvation".
For some, who turn to Him. That's really as much as we can know. And this is not an either/or proposition, but both/and, with us working out our salvation together with He who works in us. It should be understood that, since Eden, God's been working on a plan, to produce something, something great, something better than He began with even though everything He creates is good to begin with, rather than to just, almost reluctantly as some would seem to have it, save a portion of His otherwise worthless wretched creation.

Man was made for something big, and man gives glory to God by reflecting that very glory in himself. And that necessarily involves the will, to choose the Good to the extent we're able and as we're able even as grace is continuously necessary to draw and aid and coax us along. and that's why we must remain in Him, that union, itself, involving a daily choice. The fact that we can turn away at any step is the very reason why our own justice or righteousness or perfection is increased and achieved as we continue to walk with Him, amidst the struggles and tests and temptations of this life, and even if we slide back on occasion.

But the trend and the goal must be upward, as it was for Paul in Phil 3. And to the extent that man loves God with his whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and his neighbor as himself, his righteousness would be complete, that's how important love is-and how reflective love is of God's glory- in this whole plan. We're here, in a sense, to begin to fully come to learn the value of love which is the essence of all goodness and righteousness and justice, the value of God to put it another way. Adam, as a good part of God's creation but still "raw" so to speak, missed that. He's presumably learned it by now, the hard way as we all must.
 
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Behold

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By sinning, i.e. turning back away from God to a life in the flesh. That turning away by an act of disobedience is how Adam died to begin with.
Adam, as a good part of God's creation but still "raw" so to speak, missed that. He's presumably learned it by now, the hard way as we all must.

We have an advantage over Adam.
Adam was not born again, so, this reality that is our "justification by faith", keeps us "in Christ".
Adam had no Redeemer. Adam had no restoration of Righteousness that is attained by the 2nd Adam.
We do.
Adam was not accepted by God based ONLY on the Blood of Jesus.
We are.
 
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