God's Grace

[Behold]

-
The wonder of God's Grace, that many will never understand, is..... To be accepted by God, we have to be as Sinless as Christ. Otherwise, GOD can't have us, or take us.

Listen..
We have to be of EQUAL RIGHTEOUSNESS To God, before we can go to heaven.
This has to happen BEFORE WE DIE.
Enter...........THE CROSS.
The Cross, is the Finished work of Jesus, that is proven to be true by the Resurrection of The Christ from the Dead.
And what else does it prove? It proves that if you are born again, you are just as Righteous as God, .. being MADE Righteous by the Blood Atonement. "The GIFT of Righteousness".
When does that end? It ends when God dies.
You'll be just as Righteous as God, "The righteousness of God, In Christ" for as long as God LIVES.
This is how long the effect of being made righteous by the BLOOD ATONEMENT, will last.
Thats why its called "Eternal Life".

"but what if i sin"....
You already have, hundreds of times.
"well what if i forgot to repent hundreds of times' ??
What if you did?
Are you born again? Then THAT is why go to heaven, not because you carefully remember all your sin and repent of them one by one.

Consider this..
You are the Righteousness of God in Christ, ALWAYS...
Saint....Think about that the next time you are repenting and confessing, and you just might begin to come into your first actual understanding of the GRACE OF GOD.

 

[Tolworth John]

We have to be of EQUAL RIGHTEOUSNESS To God

In Jesus we have Christ's rightousness.we are his fingers, adopted into his family, not going to be but already are.

Yes the riches our his grace and mercy that have been lavished on us are beyond imaginings.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

-
The wonder of God's Grace, that many will never understand, is..... To be accepted by God, we have to be as Sinless as Christ. Otherwise, GOD can't have us, or take us.

Listen..
We have to be of EQUAL RIGHTEOUSNESS To God, before we can go to heaven.
This has to happen BEFORE WE DIE.
Enter...........THE CROSS.
The Cross, is the Finished work of Jesus, that is proven to be true by the Resurrection of The Christ from the Dead.
And what else does it prove? It proves that if you are born again, you are just as Righteous as God, .. being MADE Righteous by the Blood Atonement. "The GIFT of Righteousness".
When does that end? It ends when God dies.
You'll be just as Righteous as God, "The righteousness of God, In Christ" for as long as God LIVES.
This is how long the effect of being made righteous by the BLOOD ATONEMENT, will last.
Thats why its called "Eternal Life".

"but what if i sin"....
You already have, hundreds of times.
"well what if i forgot to repent hundreds of times' ??
What if you did?
Are you born again? Then THAT is why go to heaven, not because you carefully remember all your sin and repent of them one by one.

Consider this..
You are the Righteousness of God in Christ, ALWAYS...
Saint....Think about that the next time you are repenting and confessing, and you just might begin to come into your first actual understanding of the GRACE OF GOD.

1 John 1:8-10

 

[com7fy8]

if you are born again, you are just as Righteous as God, .. being MADE Righteous by the Blood Atonement. "The GIFT of Righteousness".

This is how we start, at the cross.

But next comes the process of how God actually changes us to become and to love like Jesus >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

And this includes our Father's actual correction in us >

Hebrews 12:4-14.

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

So, I see from this, we who have trusted in Jesus on the cross now submit to Him in order to learn from Him and obey Him; and while we do what Jesus has us doing, we have rest for our souls; "and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." > please see and feed on Philippians 4:4-8.

So, first there is the imputed righteousness which Jesus on the cross gives us, so we become children of God (and yes this lasts forever). But then comes character correction which produces how God's love makes our character right the way His love is righteous.

And as we discover how God has us become and love, we are loving instead of sinning. And we are not only aware of moral no-no's, but we become more aware of what keeps us from loving >

unforgiveness >

arguing >

complaining >

workaholic ministerial stress and frustration >

things that were not so obviously wrong while we did not know how to submit to Christ and love in His peace and soul rest.

And we learn what can misguide our attention so then we get into mental and emotional chaos, instead of staying with God in His peace which "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:4-8)

So, yes we might know all the moral no-no's, but then we get more and more wise to what is anti-love and anti-peace in us, and we refuse to submit to them, in order that we may love, instead >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-21)

So . . . by the way @Behold > then, God's grace does not only make us equal to Jesus in an imputed way, but God's grace changes us so we are forgiving in an equal way > "even as God".

 

[GodsGrace101]

-
The wonder of God's Grace, that many will never understand, is..... To be accepted by God, we have to be as Sinless as Christ. Otherwise, GOD can't have us, or take us.

Listen..
We have to be of EQUAL RIGHTEOUSNESS To God, before we can go to heaven.
This has to happen BEFORE WE DIE.
Enter...........THE CROSS.
The Cross, is the Finished work of Jesus, that is proven to be true by the Resurrection of The Christ from the Dead.
And what else does it prove? It proves that if you are born again, you are just as Righteous as God, .. being MADE Righteous by the Blood Atonement. "The GIFT of Righteousness".
When does that end? It ends when God dies.
You'll be just as Righteous as God, "The righteousness of God, In Christ" for as long as God LIVES.
This is how long the effect of being made righteous by the BLOOD ATONEMENT, will last.
Thats why its called "Eternal Life".

"but what if i sin"....
You already have, hundreds of times.
"well what if i forgot to repent hundreds of times' ??
What if you did?
Are you born again? Then THAT is why go to heaven, not because you carefully remember all your sin and repent of them one by one.

Consider this..
You are the Righteousness of God in Christ, ALWAYS...
Saint....Think about that the next time you are repenting and confessing, and you just might begin to come into your first actual understanding of the GRACE OF GOD.

Some of us are always trying to comfort the others.
Is this doing God's work?
Shouldn't God's comfort be enough for us?

I just want to make one comment....
we could not be as righteous as God...

Consider what righteous means....
It simply means to be right with God.
When we die we must be right with God if we're to go to be with Him.

By reading the above it sounds as if you believe we could be fully sanctified and made perfect in this life.

I doubt this is what you mean,,,but it IS impossible.

So we are right with God when we walk with His Son.
Even is we will never be perfect in this life.

 

[com7fy8]

I just want to make one comment....
we could not be as righteous as God...

By reading the above it sounds as if you believe we could be fully sanctified and made perfect in this life.

My opinion > And Behold can speak for himself > there are people who seem to mean that when a person first gets saved, the person is given the righteousness of Jesus so God only sees Jesus and not the person. And ones claim the person can keep right on sinning or commit murder right before the person dies, but will go to Heaven, because God gave the person Christ's righteousness. And such might not say a word about how a child of God is guaranteed our Father's correction > Hebrews 12:4-14.

So, they're saying if you get saved, you are guaranteed Heaven even if later you fall away. They do not say we are guaranteed correction which changes us to be in the image of Jesus, which would change us so we do not keep on in the same sins.

So, if I get Behold correctly, he is not talking about if we become perfect "in this life" (that would require a process after being imputed righteousness at salvation). But Behold is saying that people are given Christ's righteousness when people first get saved; but possibly he means ones can be saved and go on sinning and never change but still go to Heaven > but he can speak for himself about if he means this.

But in case Behold means that at salvation you get a permanent security blanket, no matter how you might fail and sin after that, that would be a blanket with nothing to make sure you are warm within it.

 

[crossnote]

By reading the above it sounds as if you believe we could be fully sanctified and made perfect in this life.

I think Behold is referring to the imputed righteousness of Christ, where God declares us 'righteous' on account of faith in His Son. It is commonly referred to as an 'alien righteousness' (nothing in my hands I bring etc.) and is our safety net so-to-speak as God continues to sanctify us in this life. Romans 3-4 gives a good explanation of this.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I think Behold is referring to the imputed righteousness of Christ, where God declares us 'righteous' on account of faith in His Son. It is commonly referred to as an 'alien righteousness' (nothing in my hands I bring etc.) and is our safety net so-to-speak as God continues to sanctify us in this life. Romans 3-4 gives a good explanation of this.

I agree that we have the imputed righteousness of Christ.

I'm not sure what the O.P. meant by this:
We have to be of EQUAL RIGHTEOUSNESS To God, before we can go to heaven.
This has to happen BEFORE WE DIE.

It sounds like he's saying we have to be as holy as God is. This is a different idea than the one I believe we can all agree on: That we are covered by Jesus...
and God sees the Son's righeousness and not our sins.

We cannot be as holy as God is.

 

[crossnote]

I agree that we have the imputed righteousness of Christ.

I'm not sure what the O.P. meant by this:
We have to be of EQUAL RIGHTEOUSNESS To God, before we can go to heaven.
This has to happen BEFORE WE DIE.

It sounds like he's saying we have to be as holy as God is. This is a different idea than the one I believe we can all agree on: That we are covered by Jesus...
and God sees the Son's righeousness and not our sins.

We cannot be as holy as God is.

I think that is the point. The righteousness by which God reckons us as righteous must be a perfect one, since it is the righteousness of Christ.
I really don't think he is espousing sinless perfection in order to enter heaven.

 

[Behold]

In Jesus we have Christ's rightousness.we are his fingers, adopted into his family, not going to be but already are.

Yes the riches our his grace and mercy that have been lavished on us are beyond imaginings.

God dying as Jesus on the Cross.
Amazing Grace.

 

[Behold]

1 John 1:8-10

Yes i already know you have issues with the Grace of God.

And as i told you before, there is no Sin in Christ.. and the born again are "IN CHRIST". "ONE" with God and Christ.

So, the reality is.."if we say we have sin, and we are born again, then we are deceived by the devil".

Its like this y haderekh, Ether Christ has all your sin, died for them, and they are Gone, or YOU have them, and you are not born again.
You are either "in Christ", as a New Creation, Born again, as "the righteousness of God", or you are still in your sin, and are damned. John 3:36
There is no.... "well, one day i sin, and one day i repent myself back in to the Blood Atonement".

Try to understand that the Cross is the Eternal Redemption that Christ gained, and its not something you can undo or redo, personally.
God has you, or He doesn't.
There is no..."well, God had me until i sinned again, and later today im going to confess and repent my way back in to the family of God".

 

[Behold]

This is how we start, at the cross.

But next comes the process of how God actually changes us to become and to love like Jesus >
"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)
And this includes our Father's actual correction in us >Hebrews 12:4-14."'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)So, I see from this, we who have trusted in Jesus on the cross now submit to Him in order to learn from Him and obey Him; and while we do what Jesus has us doing, we have rest for our souls; "and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." > please see and feed on Philippians 4:4-8.So, first there is the imputed righteousness which Jesus on the cross gives us, so we become children of God (and yes this lasts forever). But then comes character correction which produces how God's love makes our character right the way His love is righteous.
And as we discover how God has us become and love, we are loving instead of sinning. And we are not only aware of moral no-no's, but we become more aware of what keeps us from loving >
things that were not so obviously wrong while we did not know how to submit to Christ and love in His peace and soul rest.And we learn what can misguide our attention so then we get into mental and emotional chaos, instead of staying with God in His peace which "will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (in Philippians 4:4-8)So, yes we might know all the moral no-no's, but then we get more and more wise to what is anti-love and anti-peace in us, and we refuse to submit to them, in order that we may love, instead >
"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-21)
So . . . by the way @Behold > then, God's grace does not only make us equal to Jesus in an imputed way, but God's grace changes us so we are forgiving in an equal way > "even as God".

The born again person, receives the Righteousness of God the instant that God accepts your faith.
"Faith is accepted (counted) as righteousness". = Born again.
So, from that second, and until you are in Heaven, you always remain the same "righteousness of God in Christ".

"but what if i dont remember to repent and confess my last 3456 sins"?
= "where sin abounds, GRACE more abounds".
Romans 4:8

Following SALVATiON, as you are discussing com7fy8, comes DISCIPLESHIP.
And we are certainly to live a life that reflects our SALVATION that is always in place.
The issue most believers have, is that they believe that both are the same, and in fact, they are not.
Discipleship is NOT Salvation. Discipleship follows Salvation.
See, you can be a follower of Jesus, and not go to Heaven.
This is why Jesus says, "you must be born again".
Being born again is why you will end up in Heaven and with God and Christ, after you die, or after you are Raptured.
There is no other reason... So, once a person stops trusting in discipleship to "stay saved", they have finally understood the Blood Atonement's finished Work, or "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross", which is the same thing.
And Reader, once you are there MENTALLY, then you will finally be able to escape the Christian Failure lifestyle of sinning and repenting of "dead works".

 

[Behold]

I just want to make one comment....
we could not be as righteous as God...

.

If the blood of Jesus does not create the Blood Atonement that is given to you, as "the righteousness GOD in Christ", then GOD is a liar, Jesus is also...
= That can't happen.

Salvation IS GOD making the born again, "the righteousness of GOD.......In Christ".

That's the reason God came here.
Strange that you and so many on this Forum, have no idea about this, yet.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yes i already know you have issues with the Grace of God.

And as i told you before, there is no Sin in Christ.. and the born again are "IN CHRIST". "ONE" with God and Christ.

So, the reality is.."if we say we have sin, and we are born again, then we are deceived by the devil".

Its like this y haderekh, Ether Christ has all your sin, died for them, and they are Gone, or YOU have them, and you are not born again.
You are either "in Christ", as a New Creation, Born again, as "the righteousness of God", or you are still in your sin, and are damned. John 3:36
There is no.... "well, one day i sin, and one day i repent myself back in to the Blood Atonement".

Try to understand that the Cross is the Eternal Redemption that Christ gained, and its not something you can undo or redo, personally.
God has you, or He doesn't.
There is no..."well, God had me until i sinned again, and later today im going to confess and repent my way back in to the family of God".

If you think I have a problem with grace, you are wrong. What I have a problem with is your interpretation of scripture, injecting your theology into it. Yeshua said, your sins are forgiven you but go and sin no more. 1 John 1:8-10

 

[Behold]

My opinion
But in case Behold means that at salvation you get a permanent security blanket, no matter how you might fail and sin after that, that would be a blanket with nothing to make sure you are warm within it.

See Thread...

Let Grace be your home

 

[com7fy8]

The born again person, receives the Righteousness of God the instant that God accepts your faith.

But Hebrews 12:4-14 says God's correction of His children "produces the peaceable fruit of righteousness".

Discipleship is NOT Salvation. Discipleship follows Salvation.

I would say discipling is not the salvation experience which gets people started in Jesus - - - born again. But Paul says to Timothy >

"Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you." (1 Timothy 4:16)

I would say Timothy already had been born again, when Paul said to do this in order to save himself and those that hear him. And what he means by taking heed to himself is important, since in doing this he can save himself, it appears Paul is saying. Now . . . then . . . by the way . . . he doesn't say to do works, but he does say to take heed to himself.

And Hebrews 12:4-14 says we need to actively seek our Father for His correction which has us become "partakers of His holiness."

He corrects us who are His children; so I do not think this means correction brings us to become born again. And without holiness "no one will see the Lord", this scripture also does say.

Now, of course, ones can argue about if this correction is a condition of getting to Heaven, or if it is an inclusion guaranteed of how our Father will succeed in each truly born again person. And others will argue that someone can be born again and be God's child and keep sinning without getting this correction but still get to Heaven; but I consider Hebrews 12:8. And I understand, then, how such character correction is guaranteed included, not only a condition.

See, you can be a follower of Jesus, and not go to Heaven.
This is why Jesus says, "you must be born again".

Well, if I am following Jesus who says to be born again, I am born again, am I not?

Being born again is why you will end up in Heaven and with God and Christ, after you die, or after you are Raptured.

And Hebrews 12:4-14 guarantees how our Father corrects His children so we share in His holiness in His love's "peaceable fruit of righteousness".

 

[Behold]

But Hebrews 12:4-14 says God's correction of His children "produces the peaceable fruit of righteousness".

.

A born again Christian has been made righteous by "the gift of Righteousness".

However, they have "sin patterns".....they have mental strongholds, and they have habitual carnality issues that, all combined, will keep them from walking the walk more perfectly.
So, all that, plus a total misunderstanding about what frees the mind from the Flesh MIND, is why a person keeps committing deeds of the flesh and involved in the cycle of repenting and confession, that is the proof that you are walking in your carnal mind.

So, regarding habitual carnality, that is like data on an old Hard Drive, with your mind being the hard drive, God has to wipe it clean or its going to keep trying to program you to think wrong, behave wrong, due to wrong believing.
So, God involves you with Hebrews 12:6, where God does an inner work IN you, that deals with what has to be dealt with...... that you can't remove from yourself.
Once that is dealt with, then you are elevated and relieved from this inner issue which produces the fruit regarding a higher level of holy behavior in your discipleship.

 

[Behold]

If you think I have a problem with grace, you are wrong. What I have a problem with is your interpretation of scripture, injecting your theology into it. Yeshua said, your sins are forgiven you but go and sin no more. 1 John 1:8-10

I dont inject my Theology into anything.
I simple teach Pauline Theology, that you find personally offensive.

And if you are to go and sin no more, then why are you repenting and confessing your sin, ?
Why are you doing that?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I dont inject my Theology into anything.
I simple teach Pauline Theology, that you find personally offensive.

Of course you do and you add it to scripture where it was not there (this has already been proven). I don't find Paul offensive at all. What I find offensive is your misunderstanding of Paul and your misinterpretation of his teachings.

 

[Behold]

Of course you do and you add it to scripture where it was not there (this has already been proven). I don't find Paul offensive at all. What I find offensive is your misunderstanding of Paul and your misinterpretation of his teachings.

You have again confused expounding verses with "changing" them.
Teaching is not "changing"....
Try to understand.