God's Free Will

I have been concerned lately about something that has been bugging me.  I am a Christian but sometimes I wonder...

God is All-knowing and knows everything and he knows our fate.  I have been asked this question but I dont know the correct way to answer it...."If God is All-Knowing, then why did he create the earth and people and every thing on earth if he knows what's to become of each of us.   He knew Adam and Eve would eat the apple even before he created them.  Therefore he knew that from then on, our world would be full of sin.  It just seems that if I had the ability to create something I wouldn't want any of it to turn out as this horrible world that it has become with sin.

Eric
 

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The things in the bible we see are glimpses of God in our context, ie time. Think about if you are in 2 dimentions. You see a sphere moving through and at first you see a dot..then it enlarges to be a circle and then to a dot again and disappears. You scream, "it changed!" but it wasn't the sphere that changed, it was your perception.

As far as knowing everything, God knew he would have to go and be in pain for us, and some would reject him and that would hurt him, but he loved us enough to still give us the choice. Listen to a song by Cademon's call named, "before there was time." great perspective on this question from a christian point of view.
 
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goodnewsinc

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Hi, Eric!

You seem to be sincere in wanting to understand God's work and His PLAN.  Your mind appears to be fertile.  Forget any human presumptions which will cloud your mind and prepare for an adventure that "eyes have not seen, neither have ears heard, nor has such wisdom entered the heart of men".  Gold is VERY RARE and men have to "dig" for it or "pan" for it in a river.  Perhaps you can recognize gold when you see it.  If so, then read these documents and learn to rejoice:

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v4gn/godswill.html

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v2gn/ltrtoben.html

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v2gn/ltrtoben.html

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v3gn/setmesel.html

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v3gn/negchess.html

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v3gn/fmlyreun.html

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v4gn/failsee.html

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v4gn/godhappy.html

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/v5gn/Children%20of%20Light,%20YOUR%20Heritage.html

John,

GOOD NEWS, Inc. :holy: :clap: :wave:
 
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goodnewsinc

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Just take a look at yourself!  YOU are made in His image and likeness.  How would you like to be in solitary confinement all by yourself, or on a deserted island with no one there to see or talk to ... not even animals and birds?!  Just imagine being in a dark void of nothingness with no up, down, east or west, no solid ground and YOU are all there is ... no matter, no universe ... just you!  Think about it!  How do you cope with this dilemma?  How do you quench the pangs of loneliness and the NEED for companionship?

I can tell you what God did.  His brilliant mind conceived of "the creation" and "family".  That is how and why the beginning began!

Secrets of Enoch 23 1 And he was telling me all the works of heaven, earth and sea, and all the elements, their passages and goings, and the thunderings of the thunders, the sun and moon, the goings and changes of the stars, the seasons, years, days, and hours, 2, 3 and the formation of their songs, and all human things, the tongue of every human song and life, the commandments, instructions, and sweet-voiced singings, and all things that it is fitting to learn. And Pravuil told me: 'All the things 4 that I have told thee, we have written. Sit and write all the souls of mankind, however many of them are born, and the places prepared for them 5 to eternity; for all souls are prepared to eternity, before the formation of the world.' And all 6 double thirty days and thirty nights, and I wrote out all things exactly, and wrote three hundred and sixty-six books.

Of the great secrets of God, which God revealed and told to Enoch, and spoke with him face to face.

24 1 And the Lord summoned me, and said to me: 'Enoch, sit down on my left with Gabriel.' And I bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord spoke 2 to me: Enoch, beloved, all thou seest, all things that are standing finished I tell to thee even before the very beginning, all that I created from non- being, and visible things from invisible. 3 Hear, Enoch, and take in these my words, for not to my angels have I told my secret, and I have not told them their rise, nor my endless realm, nor have they understood my creating, 4 which I tell thee today. For before all things were visible, I alone used to go about in the invisible things, like the sun from east to west, and 5 from west to east. But even the sun has peace in itself, while I found no peace, because I was creating all things, and I conceived the thought of placing foundations, and of creating visible creation.

God relates to Enoch, how out of the very lowest darkness comes down the visible and invisible.

25 1 I commanded in the very lowest parts, that visible things should come down from invisible, and Adoil came down very great, and I beheld 2 him, and lo! he had a belly of great light. And I said to him: 'Become undone, Adoil, and let 3 the visible come out of thee.' And he came undone, and a great light came out. And I was in the midst of the great light, and as there is born light from light, there came forth a great age, and showed all creation, which I had thought to 4 create. And I saw that it was good. And I placed for myself a throne, and took; my seat on it, and said to the light: 'Go thou up higher and fix thyself high above the throne, and be 5 a foundation to the highest things.' And above the light there is nothing else, and then I bent up and looked up from my throne.

God summons from the very lowest a second time that Archas, heavy and very red, should come forth.

26 1 And I summoned the very lowest a second time, and said: 'Let Archas come forth hard,' and he came forth hard from the invisible. And Archas came forth, hard, heavy, and very red. 2 And I said: 'Be opened, Archas, and let there be born from thee,' and he came undone, an age came forth, very great and very dark, bearing 3 the creation of all lower things, and I saw that it was good and said to him: 'Go thou down below, and make thyself firm, and be for a foundation for the lower things,' and it happened and he went down and fixed himself, and became the foundation for the lower things, and below the darkness there is nothing else.

30:8 On the sixth day I commanded my wisdom to create man from seven consistencies: one his flesh from the earth; two, his blood from the dew; three, his eyes from the sun; four, his bones from stone; five, his intelligence from the swiftness of the angels and from cloud; six, his veins and his hair from the grass of the earth; seven, his soul from my breath and from the wind. 9 And I gave him seven natures: to the flesh hearing, the eyes for sight, to the soul smell, the veins for touch, the blood for taste, the bones for endurance, to the intelligence sweetness (sc. enjoyment). 10 I conceived a cunning saying to say, I created man from invisible and from visible nature, of both are his death and life and image, the knows speech like some created thing, small in greatness 11 and again great in smallness, and I placed him on earth, a second angel, honourable, great 12 and glorious, and I appointed him as ruler to rule on earth and to have my wisdom, and there was none like him of earth of all my existing creatures. 13 And I appointed him a name, from the four component parts, from east, from west, from south, 14, 15 from north, and I appointed for him four special stars, and I called his name Adam, and showed him the two ways,. the light and the darkness, and I told him: 'This is good, and that bad,' that I should learn whether he has love towards me, or hatred, that it be clear which in his race love me. 16 For I have seen his nature, but he has not seen his own nature, therefore through not seeing he will sin worse, and I said: 'After sin what is there but death?' 17 And I put sleep into him and he fell asleep. And I took from him a rib and created him 18 a wife, that death should come to him by his wife, and I took his last word and called her name mother, that is to say, Eva.

God has other "secrets" you can discover if you have the power to READ them. Personally I am happy that He "imagined all this"!  He has the power to make His thoughts become reality!  Now I have brothers and sisters and a huge FAMILY to give me the joy of FAMILY REUNION forever! "Amen"!  I can say, "Thank you, Father"!

John,

GOOD NEWS, Inc. :clap: :clap: :wave:
 
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Nathan Poe

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Today at 09:35 PM goodnewsinc said this in Post #6

Just take a look at yourself!  YOU are made in His image and likeness.  How would you like to be in solitary confinement all by yourself, or on a deserted island with no one there to see or talk to ... not even animals and birds?!  Just imagine being in a dark void of nothingness with no up, down, east or west, no solid ground and YOU are all there is ... no matter, no universe ... just you!  Think about it!  How do you cope with this dilemma?  How do you quench the pangs of loneliness and the NEED for companionship?

So why create something so vastly inferior to Himself?
 
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goodnewsinc

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Notice the beauty and skill of the creator:

trees: willow trees, pines, giant red woods, palms, sequoias of the desert, and fruit trees .... all have different shapes, leaves and sizes showing the glory of the mind of God.

fruits: apples pears, bananas, grapes, strawberries, peaches, blueberries, etc. .... all are fruits with different colors, shapes, textures, aromas, and flavors expressing the skill of the creator to please eyes, noses, and mouths and to provide nutrition for the body.

construction extremes: the basic structure of matter is the atom. (I am aware of smaller particles of mass). The nucleus of protons is surrounded by orbiting electrons.  Our solar system the sun in the center and around it are orbiting planets.  The universe itself is myriads of galaxies of star systems all orbiting around a central point and spiralling outward.  The consruction pattern is clear and this is the work of the creator.

life: viruses (not considered to be living), bacteria, one celled forms like the amoeba, multi-cell forms of life from parasites to sea life forms, birds of the air, and land animals and reptiles are all a massive variety of life forms showing the beauty and splendor of the Creators mind.  I thank and praise Him for His work and scientists and biologists are still intrigued by the astonishing skill of the creations and the great variety of life at the bottom of the oceans at thermal vents and beneath the polar ice.  At the top of all these forms is man ... "made in the image and likeness of the Creator" with power to think.  This is God's son and everything was created for man's comfort and to make life interesting and to make it a grand adventure for him.

Think about this and see if you can find any sense and wisdom in it.  Thanks.

John,

GOOD NEWS, Inc. ;) :pink: :wave:
 
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jodrey

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First, very good question; I have wondered it myself and feel I now have the simple answer.

a question I have is, that if god Is All Knowing and All powerfull, why did he repent for making man and animal? Why did he make a mistake (giving man freewll) and have to fix it (using the flood) in the first place? Why did his fix not really work?

He never repented because He never made a mistake. Mistranslation at its finest. :)

Let me try to address this issue very simply.

God is All-knowing and knows everything and he knows our fate. I have been asked this question but I dont know the correct way to answer it...."If God is All-Knowing, then why did he create the earth and people and every thing on earth if he knows what's to become of each of us. He knew Adam and Eve would eat the apple even before he created them. Therefore he knew that from then on, our world would be full of sin. It just seems that if I had the ability to create something I wouldn't want any of it to turn out as this horrible world that it has become with sin.

This is actually an easier answer than the version I was asked, which is, "If God is all-knowing then how do men have free-will? He knows our fate so therefore we have no choice; God is not wrong so we must follow our fate; there is no choice." But before I confuse things, let me address your question specifically.

Yes, God did know that Adam would fall; He did know people would sin. He knew the flood would be necessary. He knew that giving us free agency would put us from His presence because we would sin, and therefore not be able to return. This is exactly why He gave His Only Begotten to suffer for our sins and bridge the gap between death and eternal life. It wasn't a mistake of His; He fully expected everything that came, and that's why Christ came and suffered for us, so that we could live. It's part of the plan of salvation.

1 Peter 1: 20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Christ was prepared before the world was, to show us the way. But why was any of this necessary in the first place? The only way to tell you why this was is to tell you the plan of salvation in full, the gospel of Jesus Christ, and your question is very specifically answered by the Book of Mormon. "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy." The simple answer is that God did it for us, not for Him. He loves us, so He developed a plan by which we can be happy. To know more, you should read 2 Nephi 2 (http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/2). Again, many Christians acknowledge that Christ's atonement is necessary to redeem us from our sins, but most don't realize why our sins are necessary that we would need a redemption.
 
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jodrey

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Life is the Journey, not the destination!

Therefore knowing what was to come, we are here to have the journey!

That's only part of it; some will become sons of perdition, and there will be no repntance for them. This is rather serious. Not everyone is going to heaven, so this is an important topic to talk about. While the experience we gain can be useful, the end is there, and it must be considered.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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6th March 2003 at 11:41 PM jepattes said this in Post #1

I have been concerned lately about something that has been bugging me.  I am a Christian but sometimes I wonder...

God is All-knowing and knows everything and he knows our fate.  I have been asked this question but I dont know the correct way to answer it...."If God is All-Knowing, then why did he create the earth and people and every thing on earth if he knows what's to become of each of us.   He knew Adam and Eve would eat the apple even before he created them.  Therefore he knew that from then on, our world would be full of sin.  It just seems that if I had the ability to create something I wouldn't want any of it to turn out as this horrible world that it has become with sin.

Eric

Think about it again friend...
He could only know what would happen if it in fact did happen. If He did not create them, then they would not have fallen, and He could not have know about it... because it would not have happened.
Someone might say "But wouldn't He know what would happen even if He did not create them?" Not necessarily. Because they did what they did by free will. He can only know what decisions we will make if we in fact make them... else they are unknowable. Decisions not made cannot be predicted or foreknown.

God does not know things that are not knowable... God does not know the score of the football game between the 12 Apostles and the 12 Prophets... because such a game never occurred. There is simply nothing to know. Something has to "be" before it can "be known."
 
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SavedByGrace3

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7th March 2003 at 12:41 AM Arikay said this in Post #2

a question I have is, that if god Is All Knowing and All powerfull, why did he .....

What we see in discussions like this are examples of hyper-omni-theism... where people are understanding God to be some sort of Olympia God with spooky powers and abilities. We see non-sense questions like:
"if God is all powerful, can He create a rock to heavy for Him to pick up?"

This discussion falls into that catagory of reasoning.
If you ascribe strange powers, abilities, and attributes to Him, then there is no telling what the devil with throw up in your face. Superstition is dangerous.
 
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rnmomof7

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6th March 2003 at 11:41 PM jepattes said this in Post #1

I have been concerned lately about something that has been bugging me.  I am a Christian but sometimes I wonder...

God is All-knowing and knows everything and he knows our fate.  I have been asked this question but I dont know the correct way to answer it...."If God is All-Knowing, then why did he create the earth and people and every thing on earth if he knows what's to become of each of us.   He knew Adam and Eve would eat the apple even before he created them.  Therefore he knew that from then on, our world would be full of sin.  It just seems that if I had the ability to create something I wouldn't want any of it to turn out as this horrible world that it has become with sin.

Eric
You are right..there is not a hair on your hair brush or a bird that falls from the sky .but by His hand.

Of course the bible tells us He foreknew the fall and the resulting sin...God was not surprised..
 
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rnmomof7

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8th March 2003 at 04:31 PM Just said this in Post #5

Why did God create this universe at all?

Is the purpose just to please him, but then why does a perfect being need to be pleased?


It was for His good pleasure ...What please Him is seeing the work He does in us:>)
 
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rnmomof7

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7th March 2003 at 12:41 AM Arikay said this in Post #2

a question I have is, that if god Is All Knowing and All powerfull, why did he repent for making man and animal? Why did he make a mistake (giving man freewll) and have to fix it (using the flood) in the first place? Why did his fix not really work?


The Bible uses anthropomorphisms when it speaks of God so that we can understand Him...

The flood has become a teaching in every culture even pagan ones..The flood like all things display the glory and sovereignty of God. The flood was for His Glory.
 
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Ragman

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Ephesians 1 holds the answer to your question. It says:

3¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The purpose for the creation was for our adoption in Christ. God desired us as His children before the world was made. This means that He wanted a son or daughter just like you.

As to why make a world and people who had the capacity to sin as we do, and why make a world and people who we assume He knew would sin as we did, the answer is inside His purpose. God desired us, to embrace us and share His life with us. Therefore, it is impossible for God to create another God who is incapable of sin, and it is unthinkable that God would create a "robot" who was incapable of sin as this would make them incapable of sharing His life. Therefore God makes mankind in His own image with the full intention of joining Himself to them in His Son through the incarnation.
 
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rnmomof7

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Yesterday at 06:45 PM Ragman said this in Post #17

Ephesians 1 holds the answer to your question. It says:

3¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The purpose for the creation was for our adoption in Christ. God desired us as His children before the world was made. This means that He wanted a son or daughter just like you.

As to why make a world and people who had the capacity to sin as we do, and why make a world and people who we assume He knew would sin as we did, the answer is inside His purpose. God desired us, to embrace us and share His life with us. Therefore, it is impossible for God to create another God who is incapable of sin, and it is unthinkable that God would create a "robot" who was incapable of sin as this would make them incapable of sharing His life. Therefore God makes mankind in His own image with the full intention of joining Himself to them in His Son through the incarnation.
Two questions for you

1) If God's purpose was that men be adopted into Christ..why does he allow so many to burn in hell?
2)Does God have free will?
 
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