God's Decree

Hammster

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None of those say God destined everything that happens. Does God turn peoples hearts to lie and cheat when he said he hates lying? Anyone can pick out individual verses where God does something and pretend they are universal. Again, God put himself in the right place to be a sacrifice for us. That was his plan because of man's sin, it doesn't make God the one who decrees the sin. Just as in the garden, God didn't have to decree the fall for it to occur.
Where are you getting the idea that I’ve said God turns hearts to lie and cheat? I’ve neither said such a thing, nor implied it. False accusations are a poor way to argue.
 
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renniks

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Where are you getting the idea that I’ve said God turns hearts to lie and cheat? I’ve neither said such a thing, nor implied it. False accusations are a poor way to argue.
Lol, you don't understand that everything means everything yet? Your theology says God decrees everything and by choosing the verse about the king's heart being moved by God, did you not mean, everything the king does is what God turns his heart to? At least try to be consistent.
 
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Hammster

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Lol, you don't understand that everything means everything yet? Your theology says God decrees everything and by choosing the verse about the king's heart being moved by God, did you not mean, everything the king does is what God turns his heart to? At least try to be consistent.
I’m saying that God decrees everything that happens. I’m not saying how He does it. In most cases, we don’t know. But He doesn’t cause us to sin, though. That is also evident from Scripture.
 
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renniks

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I’m saying that God decrees everything that happens. I’m not saying how He does it. In most cases, we don’t know. But He doesn’t cause us to sin, though. That is also evident from Scripture.
Is there something higher than God's decree that is the ultimate cause of everything then? What would that be?
 
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Hammster

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Is there something higher than God's decree that is the ultimate cause of everything then? What would that be?
This is pretty basic theology. But to answer your question, no, there’s nothing or no one higher than God.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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I'm flattered that you can't get enough of me, but have to reply to my posts on this forum too!

I am trying to limit the spread of your posts, which reminds me of the spread of the Coronavirus. You seek to blame God for man's sin, and that is not wise.
When I see error I seek to provide a mask of truth to limit it's spread.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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I’m saying that God decrees everything that happens. I’m not saying how He does it. In most cases, we don’t know. But He doesn’t cause us to sin, though. That is also evident from Scripture.
This poster cannot see this. He blames God.
 
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bcbsr

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Every command may imply free choice. They do not imply free will.
Yes it does. You're talking about the absurd Calvinist theory that God manipulates the will in puppetlike fashion for the person to desire to sin, that again makes God culpable for the person sinning. And if people are incapable of willing otherwise, they are not culpable for their crimes. They are mere puppets of God. Nor is it "free choice" if in fact one choice is impossible, as Calvinists have it. If a person is chained up and told they have the "Free choice" of either unchaining themselves or remaining in their chains, that's not "free choice".
 
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Hammster

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Yes it does. You're talking about the absurd Calvinist theory that God manipulates the will in puppetlike fashion for the person to desire to sin, that again makes God culpable for the person sinning. And if people are incapable of willing otherwise, they are not culpable for their crimes. They are mere puppets of God. Nor is it "free choice" if in fact one choice is impossible, as Calvinists have it. If a person is chained up and told they have the "Free choice" of either unchaining themselves or remaining in their chains, that's not "free choice".
I’m sure you’ll be able to back your straw man that Calvinists teach that God makes people sin.

If you cannot, then the proper thing to do would be to retract this statement.
 
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bcbsr

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I’m sure you’ll be able to back your straw man that Calvinists teach that God makes people sin.

If you cannot, then the proper thing to do would be to retract this statement.
Well let's see. Calvin says that people "can will nothing but evil." Institutes page 196, that is "he is under a necessity of sinning?" Institutes page 183 God created people. So as a Calvinist would you not agree that when God created you, from the instance you were born you have been incapable of willing or doing anything but evil? Even prior to you committing sin? If so what you're saying, and what Calvinists are clearly implying, is that when God creates people he programs them with the inability to will or do anything but evil. That about right?

I would think that people who exercise rational thought should be able to clearly see through the contradictions of the implications of Calvinism. Let's see, God holds people accountable for things which He knows they don't have the ability to do seeing as from their very creation at birth he decreed that be the case. And yet Calvinists claim that God is just, holding people accountable for things over which they have no control. How can such people be reasoned with?

Calvinism is nothing but a strawman's argument powered by threats.
 
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renniks

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I am trying to limit the spread of your posts, which reminds me of the spread of the Coronavirus. You seek to blame God for man's sin, and that is not wise.
When I see error I seek to provide a mask of truth to limit it's spread.
Good luck with trying to mask Truth with your errors.
 
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renniks

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Blaming God for man's sin is profane.
You do not understand the terms you use, so you blame God?
Did you miss the "if"? I'll try to explain it slowly for you. "If" means this isn't what is real. God isn't decreeing sin, so he's not to blame
 
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renniks

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would think that people who exercise rational thought should be able to clearly see through the contradictions of the implications of Calvinism. Let's see, God holds people accountable for things which He knows they don't have the ability to do seeing as from their very creation at birth he decreed that be the case. And yet Calvinists claim that God is just, holding people accountable for things over which they have no control. How can such people be reasoned with?
Bingo! We have a winner!
 
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BBAS 64

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Well let's see. Calvin says that people "can will nothing but evil." Institutes page 196, that is "he is under a necessity of sinning?" Institutes page 183 God created people. So as a Calvinist would you not agree that when God created you, from the instance you were born you have been incapable of willing or doing anything but evil? Even prior to you committing sin? If so what you're saying, and what Calvinists are clearly implying, is that when God creates people he programs them with the inability to will or do anything but evil. That about right?

I would think that people who exercise rational thought should be able to clearly see through the contradictions of the implications of Calvinism. Let's see, God holds people accountable for things which He knows they don't have the ability to do seeing as from their very creation at birth he decreed that be the case. And yet Calvinists claim that God is just, holding people accountable for things over which they have no control. How can such people be reasoned with?

Calvinism is nothing but a strawman's argument powered by threats.

Good Day,

Surely in need of context the assertion about it being due to creation is refuted categorically by Calvin.

So to source pg 183 is irresponsible and fails or shows a lack of ability to understand the point being made on Pg 196:

1. Enough would seem to have been said on the subject of man’s will, were there not some who endeavour to urge him to his ruin by a false opinion of liberty, and at the same time, in order to support their own opinion, assail ours. First, they gather together some absurd inferences, by which they endeavour to bring odium upon our doctrine, as if it were abhorrent to common sense, and then they oppose it with certain passages of Scripture (infra, sec. 6). Both devices we shall dispose of in their order. If sin, say they, is necessary, it ceases to be sin; if it is voluntary, it may be avoided. Such, too, were the weapons with which Pelagius assailed Augustine. But we are unwilling to crush them by the weight of his name, until we have satisfactorily disposed of the objections themselves. I deny, therefore, that sin ought to be the less imputed because it is necessary; and, on the other hand, I deny the inference, that sin may be avoided because it is voluntary. If any one will dispute with God, and endeavour to evade his judgment, by pretending that he could not have done otherwise, the answer already given is sufficient, that it is owing not to creation, but the corruption of nature, that man has become the slave of sin, and can will nothing but evil that man has become the slave of sin, and can will nothing but evil

In Him,

Bill
 
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Hammster

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Well let's see. Calvin says that people "can will nothing but evil." Institutes page 196, that is "he is under a necessity of sinning?" Institutes page 183 God created people. So as a Calvinist would you not agree that when God created you, from the instance you were born you have been incapable of willing or doing anything but evil? Even prior to you committing sin? If so what you're saying, and what Calvinists are clearly implying, is that when God creates people he programs them with the inability to will or do anything but evil. That about right?

I would think that people who exercise rational thought should be able to clearly see through the contradictions of the implications of Calvinism. Let's see, God holds people accountable for things which He knows they don't have the ability to do seeing as from their very creation at birth he decreed that be the case. And yet Calvinists claim that God is just, holding people accountable for things over which they have no control. How can such people be reasoned with?

Calvinism is nothing but a strawman's argument powered by threats.
Is this admitting that you can’t find anything that states God makes people do evil? Because nothing you posted states that.
 
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