God's Decree

[Neogaia777]

I’m asking if you believe He’s all knowing. Your wording isn’t clear.

I believe God the Father has always been all-knowing.

But I was asking you what you thought?

 

[FredVB]

Nope, still dumb. In your view, God had to see how things would pan out. He had no control. He even got lucky with Mary, and how Jesus’ life would fulfill prophecy. In fact, the entire Bible is fortuitous since God couldn’t even direct that it would be actually written and preserved.

We may as well throw out the verses where God actually directed things to happen, or informed us that He did. At least disregard them as times when God didn’t value man and made them do things. He must have slipped.

You really have to use strawman arguments, I see. You can argue that you are right and the other position can be dismissed ("still dumb") interpreting it with things never said. Don't you ever get called on that? It does not look like it would be so productive a way to communicate.

God had to see? Did you think I argue against God's omniscience? God had no control, and got lucky? That's not remotely what I communicate. God already knowing is how prophecy given will always be fulfilled. It is certain, even while some things are conditional on us. The faulty logic is that God knowing all that we will do is contrary to choices we really have. That does not follow, and we are told to choose things, we are even told we must repent, but clearly there are those who don't, with their own choice. And all along God has all the power needed and can be in control of anything, but God does leave us to choose in things and to live with the consequences, it is how things go wrong in our world with all the curse in it. God works always for the redemption that is made available, where we who are redeemed with our repentance can be included with the restored creation.

 

[Hammster]

You really have to use strawman arguments, I see. You can argue that you are right and the other position can be dismissed ("still dumb") interpreting it with things never said. Don't you ever get called on that? It does not look like it would be so productive a way to communicate.

God had to see? Did you think I argue against God's omniscience? God had no control, and got lucky? That's not remotely what I communicate. God already knowing is how prophecy given will always be fulfilled. It is certain, even while some things are conditional on us. The faulty logic is that God knowing all that we will do is contrary to choices we really have. That does not follow, and we are told to choose things, we are even told we must repent, but clearly there are those who don't, with their own choice. And all along God has all the power needed and can be in control of anything, but God does leave us to choose in things and to live with the consequences, it is how things go wrong in our world with all the curse in it. God works always for the redemption that is made available, where we who are redeemed with our repentance can be included with the restored creation.

Okay, name one thing God actually did in regards to securing our salvation.

 

[FredVB]

Okay, name one thing God actually did in regards to securing our salvation.

Are you kidding? The Bible is all about things God was doing to provide salvation that it would be secured. Jesus Christ came for that, this was God's provision. He gathered a following with his signs, and showed them the way, with all they needed modeled for them. His death at officials hands and his resurrection provided atonement that was shown to be what we all really needed. God's Spirit is sent to dwell in believers and secure them. This is a small list which is most basic of many things God does. We all, every one, are still commanded to repent. We must willingly turn from life that was with sin alienating us from God, and come to God through the way that is provided, which is through Christ.

 

[Hammster]

Are you kidding? The Bible is all about things God was doing to provide salvation that it would be secured. Jesus Christ came for that, this was God's provision. He gathered a following with his signs, and showed them the way, with all they needed modeled for them. His death at officials hands and his resurrection provided atonement that was shown to be what we all really needed. God's Spirit is sent to dwell in believers and secure them. This is a small list which is most basic of many things God does. We all, every one, are still commanded to repent. We must willingly turn from life that was with sin alienating us from God, and come to God through the way that is provided, which is through Christ.

His death at official’s hands? How did He do that?

 

[FredVB]

His death at official’s hands? How did He do that?

It did not have to be Roman officials or Jewish leaders, there could have been, in different circumstances, other ways for the needed atonement that was one of the very important things Christ came here for. God is omniscient, God knew the times and when it was right to send the incarnation of the Logos of God, and knew things being fulfilled with it to have sent prophecies before.

 

[Hammster]

It did not have to be Roman officials or Jewish leaders, there could have been, in different circumstances, other ways for the needed atonement that was one of the very important things Christ came here for. God is omniscient, God knew the times and when it was right to send the incarnation of the Logos of God, and knew things being fulfilled with it to have sent prophecies before.

It had to be the cross, though. OT prophesy and Christ’s own words show that. And Peter affirms that it was God’s actual plan. This wasn’t left to chance, and omniscience doesn’t cut it. It needed to be orchestrated.