Godly sorrow and repentance

[cedward1]

I'm trying to step back a bit and look at things from the standpoint of an unbeliever. It's just that the things I know seem to keep getting in the way. I read and study the Bible, but it is so familiar it is hard to feel it. I can't deny Him intellectually, because I have seen too much evidence. Too many testimonies of drastically changed lives (from former atheists to converted Muslims). Millions of people know Jesus in their hearts, but I don't seem to know Him myself. It's hard to explain. I believe, it is illogical not to believe, but I don't know if I have faith.

You don't suppose that I did drive away the Holy Spirit's convictions in my past, do you? I mean, I would have known if there was some supernatural conviction at work, wouldn't I?

 

[briareos]

cedward

You realize the need for a savior and you want to be saved, you also believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and that he died on the cross for you.

So ask him to save you... from everything and he will. Cry out to him for help, all that you need he will give you. He will move heaven and earth to come to your aid and see that you are saved.

 

[briareos]

You cannot cry out to God in faith for help and not have him answer your call... it cannot happen. Ask him for help, he will make you whatever you need to be, show all that you need to know, help you do that you need to do. Just ask him to save you and it will not ever be that he does not answer.

 

[paul1149]

Cedward,

I think you're at a very valuable change point, if you deal with it the right way. Many get stuck at the mental level, and never go further. But that's not working for you, and that's a good thing.

There's a reason the Bible has become stale. God know exactly how to lead you, and He will not permit any other way that does not entail wholehearted devotion. You could force your way through, but I don’t think that will work.

Instead, Jesus gives us a gateway scripture for those who are on the threshold but who are having difficulty entering in:

If any desire to do his will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God, or I speak from myself. -John 7:17​

Focus on the heart. Forget whatever you think you may have done in the past. God doesn’t deal that way. The issue is how to move forward. Get yourself to a place where it is a question, not of knowledge or earthly wisdom, and not of strength of willpower either, but of simple willingness. Let the Lord deal with you on the atomic, mustard seed level – the least unit of faith and obedience. If you cannot make yourself willing, then get to where you are willing to be made willing. God can work with that.

You will find that as you exercise faith in the Lord, in the sense of a tangible trust in Him, He will respond by opening up the path before you.

The intellect cannot lead when you're at the place you are, because you only will end up playing more soulical mind games with yourself. You have to be reduced to a place of trust, and that translates into willingness. Then you can build on that.

If you will pass through that narrow gate, you will find the way open to you. His presence will enter in, and you will be led in and out to the higher pastures.

 

[cedward1]

I am perfectly willing to do whatever God wants. But even then it feels like selfishness, since I am willing because I want to be saved. It feels as though my entire search is selfish, really. But I have moved beyond simply wanting to be saved from God's wrath to actually desiring to be with God Himself. And now and then I feel a sense of wrongness with having been created by God and not doing His will. Some part of me has a need to be used by Him.

At least I am trying to reach the Gate now. For most of my life I was just kind of dozing in the front yard. Now I know I'm not there, which is at least a step up. I just hope I'm not one of the foolish virgins who woke up too late.

I appreciate all of your encouragement. I was getting a bit discouraged today. It is pretty stressful with eternity hanging in the balance like this. I haven't been able to rest easily for over a month. I just have to trust, I guess.

 

[Migdala]

So I come to God as a child, wanting Him to fill and transform me. I have done that. But I know that He won't do this unless my faith is in Jesus Christ. How do I make the breakthrough to faith in Jesus Christ? Faith in God has always been in my heart. But faith in Jesus is not as intuitive.

I mean, it's in my head but it isn't in my heart yet.

Have you ever seen the movie "The Cross" by Arthur Blessit? I highly encourage you to go to any Christian bookstore and buy it, or order it online. If that movie doesn't increase your faith, I don't know what will. lol It's the most amazing TRUE documentary I've ever watched-and I've seen it probably 5 times at least.

It's the true story of this man named Arthur Blessit. God spoke to him in 1968 and told him to build a 12 foot cross and carry it to every nation in the world and tell them about Jesus Christ. Satan attacked him right from the start-I won't tell you the whole story, but I cried and cried at how awesome God is and the complete miracles He did in this man's life as he went to every nation preaching the gospel and leading others to Christ. He walked right through the middle of war zones and was shot at, but never hit because Jesus was protecting him!

You have got to get this movie and it will totally help you, I know! And it's a true story! It took Arthur 40 years to walk across every nation, and he just finished it a few years ago and made the documentary about it. I've got the movie and the book and recommend it to anyone who is struggling in their faith in Jesus!

 

[paul1149]

When Peter was sinking beneath the waves, he didn’t worry about the motivations of his heart, and he didn’t come up with a detailed theological treatise. He wanted to be saved, and right away. The Lord is "meek and lowly" (Mt 11), and does not take offense at our self interest.

But at the same time, his immutable intent is to sanctify us and conform us to His own image. So the Lord works on our motivations. He must increase; we must decrease.

Indeed, you’ve already made movement in that direction. Desiring to be with God Himself? I don't think that can be improved on. That is exactly right, and what godly sorrow is all about. Now add faith – a positive confident expectancy - to the mix.

Now faith is being sure of what we hope for, being convinced of what we do not see. -Heb 11:1​

If you do all you can do to draw near (James 4), and then wait in faith, the rest falls to God's faithfulness. The Good Shepherd, who is called Faithful and True will come and find His sheep. Abiding, believing you receive, you will have your request (Mark 11.22-25; John 15.7).

 

[cedward1]

By the way, I assume some of you probably are but if you could pray for me I would appreciate it.

I have been reading a lot of testimonies lately. I guess my case is not entirely unique. Something about growing up in a Christian family can sometimes make people take their salvation for granted, I guess. I just read the testimony of a lady who "grew up as a Christian", realized in her 20's that she wasn't, and had to seek for three years before she got saved for real. But the fear I had is subsiding, and I am feeling as though I can trust Him through this time.

 

[Migdala]

By the way, I assume some of you probably are but if you could pray for me I would appreciate it.

I have been reading a lot of testimonies lately. I guess my case is not entirely unique. Something about growing up in a Christian family can sometimes make people take their salvation for granted, I guess. I just read the testimony of a lady who "grew up as a Christian", realized in her 20's that she wasn't, and had to seek for three years before she got saved for real. But the fear I had is subsiding, and I am feeling as though I can trust Him through this time.

There is a book that I would like to recommend. It's called "Come, and welcome to Jesus Christ" by John Bunyan. It's written in the 1500's, but it's one of the best books I've ever read on people who are struggling in coming to Christ and knowing they are saved. The author takes the verse John 6:37 and breaks every part of that verse down and writes an entire book on it, and then gives encouragement and advice for every single objection that people have of coming to Christ, such as fear of being rejected, or of not coming to Him "the right way", or worrying that they don't have enough faith, etc. The Lord led me to that book, and I've felt Him urging me to reread it whenever I start having doubts about my salvation. Totally awesome book!

 

[ToBeInChrist]

I struggled with this sort of thing a few years ago. It got to a point where I decided I would follow Jesus even if I were damned, even in Hell I would want to follow Him. Then it occurred to me that my attitude was not of the damned at all, but that Satan was attacking me with condemnation -- I started to realize that in the Bible God repeatedly called to sinners to simply start over and put the past behind them, to follow Him, and that's what He wanted and that's what I was doing, therefore God was calling me or I wouldn't be doing this, I wouldn't be caring about following Him, I wouldn't be wanting so much to be faithful, I wouldn't have decided so strongly to be obedient and to want to persevere -- would I believe that He saved sinners like me? Yes.

I am perfectly willing to do whatever God wants. But even then it feels like selfishness, since I am willing because I want to be saved. It feels as though my entire search is selfish, really. But I have moved beyond simply wanting to be saved from God's wrath to actually desiring to be with God Himself. And now and then I feel a sense of wrongness with having been created by God and not doing His will. Some part of me has a need to be used by Him.

You want to follow God, you recognize the general sense of having been a rebel, and you want to be used by Him, you want to follow Jesus.

Jesus died on the cross to save those who have such a desire to be faithful to Him. Jesus told the Apostles to preach in Jerusalem to those who crucified Him, first.

I just have to trust, I guess.

You want to follow Jesus, and you realize you've been a rebel. Believe that He saves the likes of people like you, with this sort of willingness, and enter into His rest. Are you the Jerusalem sinner, or the thief on the cross -- be saved!

 

[cedward1]

Are you the Jerusalem sinner, or the thief on the cross -- be saved!

I'm more like a Pharisee, thinking I had everything right when I really had everything wrong. But then so was Paul.

Last night I was reading in Deuteronomy. It was late, and I was starting to drift off. At one point I opened my eyes and found that I was looking directly at this verse: "But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul."

 

[cedward1]

There is a book that I would like to recommend. It's called "Come, and welcome to Jesus Christ" by John Bunyan. It's written in the 1500's, but it's one of the best books I've ever read on people who are struggling in coming to Christ and knowing they are saved. The author takes the verse John 6:37 and breaks every part of that verse down and writes an entire book on it, and then gives encouragement and advice for every single objection that people have of coming to Christ, such as fear of being rejected, or of not coming to Him "the right way", or worrying that they don't have enough faith, etc. The Lord led me to that book, and I've felt Him urging me to reread it whenever I start having doubts about my salvation. Totally awesome book!

Thanks for the recommendation. As soon as I find the charger to my Kindle I will download it (if I can find it on Amazon). Otherwise I'll try to find it the old fashioned way in the bookstore or library.

 

[briareos]

cedward

Just don't get caught up on what you've done, it simply doesn't matter and God doesn't care. He died so he wouldn't have to care about your past. His mindset is one of forgiveness and grace. When you ask the Lord to forgive you you become new and your past is not documented in heaven, it says your sins are washed away and God has no remembrance of your past so you should forget it too.

Do not hesitate to move forward in grace and accept the life God offers you because you want to hold on to the significance of your past or because you feel you need to remember your past lest you repeat it, accept your new life and leave your salvation in his hands. Salvation belongs to the Lord and it will never belong to anyone else.

 

[cedward1]

Well, I did something rather dumb today. I did something that I didn't think was a sin at the time (although I wasn't sure), but afterwards I realized that it ought to be a sin to do something that I think might be a sin. Anyway, I felt bad about it as soon as I did it and asked forgiveness, but throughout the day many of my doubts have come back because it doesn't feel as though I have the same connection with God that I felt yesterday. So I was a bit desperate to try to go back to my original connection with God, and I am finding that I can't seem to think about Him at all at the moment. I mean, I can think some general thoughts, but it is as though there is a mental block when I try to focus on the relationship between Him and myself.

Do you think you can reach a point in your search for God where you just have to take a break for a bit? It's like my mind just won't focus any longer. Am I trying too hard? Or is it possible that I took a chance with sin at a bad point in my search and I have lost my chance here? Or is Satan just messing with my mind?

 

[Migdala]

Well, I did something rather dumb today. I did something that I didn't think was a sin at the time (although I wasn't sure), but afterwards I realized that it ought to be a sin to do something that I think might be a sin. Anyway, I felt bad about it as soon as I did it and asked forgiveness, but throughout the day many of my doubts have come back because it doesn't feel as though I have the same connection with God that I felt yesterday. So I was a bit desperate to try to go back to my original connection with God, and I am finding that I can't seem to think about Him at all at the moment. I mean, I can think some general thoughts, but it is as though there is a mental block when I try to focus on the relationship between Him and myself.

Do you think you can reach a point in your search for God where you just have to take a break for a bit? It's like my mind just won't focus any longer. Am I trying too hard? Or is it possible that I took a chance with sin at a bad point in my search and I have lost my chance here? Or is Satan just messing with my mind?

You sound SO MUCH like me, it's not even funny. Satan does mess with the minds of Christians-remember, his one main goal is to get you to doubt God's love for you, so that you will stop following Christ. Know that every negative thought either comes from Satan, or your own flesh. God's words are positive and loving to you, and Satan's (or your flesh!) is condemning and makes you doubt your salvation and have a lot of fear.

 

[Johnnz]

With your natural family did you always 'feel' as an experience your relationship, or was it there anyway, and you lived day by day with various experiences of family out of the permanent basis?

So it is with the perfect Father into whose family we have been welcomed.

John
NZ

 

[briareos]

Jesus is not a Pagan God or spirit that needs to be drummed or summoned up with chanting and much effort, we do not need to go to great lengths to bring him into our world... he is as close as we want him to be. Let go of fear, doubt, worry and apprehension and simply ask him to help you and he will. When times get hard he is never far but sometimes you do have to wait for him. Spend time in prayer and the word. The ways of God are spiritual and not natural, you need to be close to him spiritually in order to know him and walk with him.

 

[cedward1]

Yeah, you're probably right. It is fortunate that we have a relationship that doesn't depend on how we "feel" at any given time!

This pseudo-sin I committed yesterday was something I did out of fear, more or less. As a result of doing it, I had a lot more peace of mind over something that has been worrying me a lot and I felt was a block in my relationship with God. But if I feel at ease in my mind, I feel as though I am not truly repentant of doing something that may have been an offense to God. But if I hadn't have done it this issue may have plagued my mind with doubts for a long time.

I just seem to have a hard time putting God's will above my own. I should have accepted the worry and trusted God.

 

[cedward1]

I was walking and praying this evening, and I was struck again with a great sorrow over my rebellion against God, which comes with a great desire to have Him in my life and to live for Him rather than myself. This happens now and then when I consider His love and my sin. It also comes when I realize the inescapable fact that He created me.

But it still feels like selfishness is at the root of it all, because I am sorry when I think of what He did for me. Or when I think of how I am His creation and how terribly wrong it therefore is for me to rebel at all.

How do I love Him with a selfless love? Or is a selfless love even possible?

 

[Johnnz]

Our love will always be imperfect. But, as our High Priest Jesus takes our puny love and presents it to His Father within His perfect love, as he does with our feeble prayers and service.

John
NZ