"Goddidit"

[CoderHead]

Are you sure?

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me on Abraham's experience with resurrection of the dead prior to offering Isaac as a human sacrifice?

 

[AV1611VET]

Nobody prior to the New Testament had been brought back from the dead.

Are you sure?

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me on Abraham's experience with resurrection of the dead prior to offering Isaac as a human sacrifice?

Have a good day.

 

[CoderHead]

Have a good day.

AV, that was a completely incoherent and ignorant response. Let me break this down for you:

Abraham had no experience with resurrection of the dead. This is because nobody had ever been resurrected while Abraham was alive (in the Old Testament). Abraham couldn't have had a reasonable expectation that God would resurrect Isaac after he killed him because there was no basis on which to form this expectation. The text also does not infer that Abraham expected anything other than for Isaac to die.

My statement was that nobody was resurrected during Abraham's lifetime (the Old Testament), and certainly not before the time that Abraham offered Isaac as a human sacrifice (which wasn't even the custom during Abraham's time). Nobody was resurrected until the New Testament - during Jesus' time. Abraham was long dead before Jesus came around.

So...what, exactly, is your argument here?

 

[hangback]

AV, that was a completely incoherent and ignorant response. Let me break this down for you:

Abraham had no experience with resurrection of the dead. This is because nobody had ever been resurrected while Abraham was alive (in the Old Testament). Abraham couldn't have had a reasonable expectation that God would resurrect Isaac after he killed him because there was no basis on which to form this expectation. The text also does not infer that Abraham expected anything other than for Isaac to die.

My statement was that nobody was resurrected during Abraham's lifetime (the Old Testament), and certainly not before the time that Abraham offered Isaac as a human sacrifice (which wasn't even the custom during Abraham's time). Nobody was resurrected until the New Testament - during Jesus' time. Abraham was long dead before Jesus came around.

So...what, exactly, is your argument here?

He won't be back because you got a little too close for comfort, you asked questions he couldn't answer and made his beloved book look foolish, hence the completely incoherent and ignorant response.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Elijah raised the widow's son from the dead in the OT.

 

[CoderHead]

Elijah raised the widow's son from the dead in the OT.

Thank you. I stand corrected on my point about resurrection being absent in the OT. However, the event you reference is post-Abraham, so it has no effect on my argument. Abraham had no reasonable expectation that Isaac would be resurrected.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Thank you. I stand corrected on my point about resurrection being absent in the OT. However, the event you reference is post-Abraham, so it has no effect on my argument. Abraham had no reasonable expectation that Isaac would be resurrected.

Agreed.

 

[AV1611VET]

Agreed.

I wouldn't be so quick to agree with him; his passion for failing the Bible is getting in the way of his understanding.

Abraham knew God wasn't finished with Isaac yet:

And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.

 

[sandwiches]

I wouldn't be so quick to agree with him; his passion for failing the Bible is getting in the way of his understanding.

Abraham knew God wasn't finished with Isaac yet:

So, Abraham was just playing along?

"You want me to sacrifice my son? Oh... I get it *wink wink* Sure thing, boss! *wink wink*"

 

[AV1611VET]

So, Abraham was just playing along?

"You want me to sacrifice my son? Oh... I get it *wink wink* Sure thing, boss! *wink wink*"

Ya, make your jokes --- they're guaranteed to backfire on you, though.

 

[BananaSlug]

I wouldn't be so quick to agree with him; his passion for failing the Bible is getting in the way of his understanding.

Abraham knew God wasn't finished with Isaac yet:

So how was God really testing Abraham's faith if Abraham was "in on the joke"?

 

[sandwiches]

Ya, make your jokes --- they're guaranteed to backfire on you, though.

LMAO

I imagined a white-haired man, a bit scruffy, with one half-closed eye, shaking his finger at me, disapprovingly, and saying that while muttering something about "whippersnappers" and "what's coming to ya."

 

[Nathan Poe]

Elijah raised the widow's son from the dead in the OT.

But of course -- where do you think the Gospel writers got the idea to have Jesus do the same thing?

 

[tansy]

I think it was that Abraham didnt immediately understand it all, but as He started to go on His way, obeying God in trust, he realised, or God showed him that things were going to be all right - and if God had reneged on His promise, then obviously, it would be shown that God couldnt be trusted.
There's a lot to this story, bu im holding a wriggling baby, thus typing onr fingered (hence typos), so i give up for the mo lol..hard to think, hard to type

 

[CoderHead]

But if Abraham would have had an epiphany on the way and realized that God wasn't actually going to have him kill his son, then he wouldn't have been demonstrating any faith by taking Isaac up into the mountains. Abraham would have had to stay under the impression that Isaac was going to die the whole time in order for the exercise not to be completely futile.

 

[TangledUpInGlue]

But if Abraham would have had an epiphany on the way and realized that God wasn't actually going to have him kill his son, then he wouldn't have been demonstrating any faith by taking Isaac up into the mountains.

Mountains? What mountains?

I thought God asked Abraham to kill Isaac out on Highway 61.

 

[CoderHead]

I must be using the wrong translation.

 

[tansy]

But if Abraham would have had an epiphany on the way and realized that God wasn't actually going to have him kill his son, then he wouldn't have been demonstrating any faith by taking Isaac up into the mountains. Abraham would have had to stay under the impression that Isaac was going to die the whole time in order for the exercise not to be completely futile.

Maybe, but really to have completed the exercise in faith, i think he would have had to carry on anyway - the thing is apart from anything else, this was a type or forerunner of Jesus' sacrifice of Himself on the cross.
Sorry, that isnt a full and complete explanation of the whole thing, but I havent time at the mo to go into the whole thing fully, and there are probably people better at explaining everything than me anyway.

 

[tansy]

Mountains? What mountains?

I thought God asked Abraham to kill Isaac out on Highway 61.

Tut, this didnt take place in America you know

 

[CoderHead]

Maybe, but really to have completed the exercise in faith, i think he would have had to carry on anyway - the thing is apart from anything else, this was a type or forerunner of Jesus' sacrifice of Himself on the cross.
Sorry, that isnt a full and complete explanation of the whole thing, but I havent time at the mo to go into the whole thing fully, and there are probably people better at explaining everything than me anyway.

But there's no faith involved in following through with a fake sacrifice knowing full well that God will stop it and provide a ram in your son's stead. Abraham walking into the mountains saying, "OK God, I'm going to kill my son for you ( )" doesn't have any substance.

Anyway, it seems like this went off on a tangent because I was really just trying to illustrate the error of saying, "if a person thought God was telling them to kill somebody (or themselves), then it wouldn't actually be God." There are clearly examples of God telling people to kill for Him.