"Goddidit"

[hangback]

This is not quite correct.

Spontaneous remission of cancer is a known phenomenon.

There is no such thing as Spontaneous remission of cancer, it's just a name given to something where to find out why it happened might kill the patient, it's best to just let it go, something caused that cancer to retreat, the reason could be either physical or mental. (placebo) so you could call it what you like.

 

[LordTimothytheWise]

What has logic got to do with your cockeyed ideas? you're talking about miracles, miracles only happen for the ignorant.

As far as logic goes, I pointed out that your criticism was not sound. Is that the only way you can respond? Insinuate that I am ignorant?

 

[CoderHead]

If, for example one got the impression or thought that one should jump off a cliff, it would be highly unlikely that that would be God.

Or, for example, one got the impression that he should sacrifice his son, Isaac, on an altar in the desert?

Conversely, if a Christians use "miraculous healing" as evidence for God, does that mean the miraculous healing of people in other religions is proof of their gods?

Indeed. Or does the "evidence" of each nullify the others?

 

[LordTimothytheWise]

Indeed. Or does the "evidence" of each nullify the others?

I would say neither.

 

[tansy]

Or, for example, one got the impression that he should sacrifice his son, Isaac, on an altar in the desert?


quote]

Thought that might get brought up lol.

But, I think that you have to put that in the context that in those days, human sacrifice seemed quite the thing, so may not have seemed strange - and actually God never intended for Abraham to sacrifice His son..there's more to that story, as with many of the Biblical narratives, than meets the eye.

 

[CoderHead]

Thought that might get brought up lol.

But of course.

But, I think that you have to put that in the context that in those days, human sacrifice seemed quite the thing, so may not have seemed strange - and actually God never intended for Abraham to sacrifice His son..there's more to that story, as with many of the Biblical narratives, than meets the eye.

Ummm, no. God never required human sacrifice. He required spotless lambs and livestock. The request by God to sacrifice Isaac was not in the norm. So...the example still stands as valid to your point.

Also, I realize that God stopped the sacrifice. But the fact that (a) He asked Abraham to do it, and (b) Abraham was more than willing speaks volumes about how disgusting that story is, regardless of whether or not it's an example of faith in God. It's disgusting.

 

[MoonLancer]

Or, for example, one got the impression that he should sacrifice his son, Isaac, on an altar in the desert?

I would just like to point out of spite that i got banned when i created a thread saying i felt god was telling me to kill my only sun. The thread no longer exists but it did show that there is serious ethical and logical differences and compartmentalizing between what people accept today and what they accept in the bible.

They clearly felt it as ok for Isaac but not someone who would think the same thing today. However they could not explain why.

I know why.

 

[tansy]

But of course.

Ummm, no. God never required human sacrifice. He required spotless lambs and livestock. The request by God to sacrifice Isaac was not in the norm. So...the example still stands as valid to your point.

I agree, god never required human sacrifice (exception perhaps being Jesus Himself, but that was slightly different

Also, I realize that God stopped the sacrifice. But the fact that (a) He asked Abraham to do it, and (b) Abraham was more than willing speaks volumes about how disgusting that story is, regardless of whether or not it's an example of faith in God. It's disgusting.[/

I'm not sure that Abraham would have said 'oh yeah, okey dokey, great, I'd just love to sacrifice my son'.
And actually, if you read the story carefully, you realise that Abraham went off to the place of sacrifice, believing that THEY BOTH WOULD COME BACK.. - I certainly don't know all the ins and outs of it..I'm sure that lots of stuff has been written about it, but it's more complex than at first sight imo

quote]

 

[AV1611VET]

Also, I realize that God stopped the sacrifice. But the fact that (a) He asked Abraham to do it, and (b) Abraham was more than willing speaks volumes about how disgusting that story is, regardless of whether or not it's an example of faith in God. It's disgusting.

Why is it disgusting?

Abraham knew that God could resurrect Isaac if He wanted to, or he would not have made this statement to his entourage:

And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would just like to point out of spite that i got banned when i created a thread saying i felt god was telling me to kill my only sun.

Wrong dispensation --- that would never wash with dispensationalists, who would know better.

 

[MoonLancer]

funny that none of them brought that up. Even you cant explain why dispensation is the way it is, or show that its anything but a compartmentalizing of Christianity.

I could care less about your religion of dispensation.

 

[AV1611VET]

I could care less about your religion of dispensation.

That's your prerogative, but then don't be surprised if no one buys it when you (or anyone) says God told them to do this or that.

 

[MoonLancer]

well none of them mentioned dispensation. In fact not many Christians know what that is.

many many many Christians believe god tells them to do stuff. I put it to the test. they failed.

 

[AV1611VET]

well none of them mentioned dispensation. In fact not many Christians know what that is.

Well, as others would say --- you might want to take a course or read a book?

 

[hangback]

well none of them mentioned dispensation. In fact not many Christians know what that is.

Well, as others would say --- you might want to take a course or read a book?

Or AV1611VET is it just you searching everywhere for ANYTHING that will make what you want to believe believable to you? to our knowledge you have come up with the most outlandish mental creations and ideas possible in a vain attempt to rationalise your beliefs, what you believe doesn't even seem to make sense to you that's why you keep inventing crazy theories and whatifs.

 

[CoderHead]

I'm not sure that Abraham would have said 'oh yeah, okey dokey, great, I'd just love to sacrifice my son'.

He made no arguments. He got the order, saddled his donkey, grabbed Isaac and some supplies, and hit the road. His intent was clearly to murder his son.

And actually, if you read the story carefully, you realise that Abraham went off to the place of sacrifice, believing that THEY BOTH WOULD COME BACK.

Are you sure about that? Abraham said this to his servants:

And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

But he takes Isaac with him, builds the altar, and throws his son on top of it clearly intending to kill him:

And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

Obviously, he was going to kill his son. What he said to the servants was certainly to keep from arousing their suspicion that he intended to murder his kid. He went through all of the motions. Furthermore, God knew without a doubt that Abraham was going to kill Isaac:

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

If God knew Abraham's heart like He knows all of ours, then He knew without a doubt that Abraham was going to kill Isaac, period. Abraham heard God tell him to murder his son and Abraham took it seriously.

Do you believe this verse?

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Does it not apply to murder as well? God's request and Abraham's intent is the part that's so disgusting, and contradictory to your previous statement:

If, for example one got the impression or thought that one should jump off a cliff, it would be highly unlikely that that would be God.

 

[CoderHead]

Why is it disgusting?

Because God commanded Abraham to murder his son. You find that perfectly acceptable? Even more disgusting is that Abraham agreed to it. Do you also find that perfectly acceptable?

Abraham knew that God could resurrect Isaac if He wanted to, or he would not have made this statement to his entourage:

Abraham had two servants with him who would have freaked out if they knew he was going to murder his son. He told them that so they didn't question what he was doing.

Where do you get the impression that Abraham thought Isaac would be resurrected? Nobody prior to the New Testament had been brought back from the dead. What's your basis?

 

[AV1611VET]

He made no arguments. He got the order, saddled his donkey, grabbed Isaac and some supplies, and hit the road. His intent was clearly to murder his son.

...

But he takes Isaac with him, builds the altar, and throws his son on top of it clearly intending to kill him:

CoderHead, are you sure you understand what happened back then?

I'm not Freud, but it seems to me your word choices reflect more than just a standard lack of understanding caused by not knowing the ins and outs of the scenario.

I actually detect some anger in your explanations.

I have a feeling you're mad at God for something, but it's none of my business.

In any event, do you realize that the Muslims say that was Ishmael that Abraham was told to sacrifice?

Had God not done this, it would be [a tad] harder to expose Islam as a false religion today.

 

[AV1611VET]

Nobody prior to the New Testament had been brought back from the dead. What's your basis?

Are you sure?

 

[CoderHead]

CoderHead, are you sure you understand what happened back then?

Are we reading the Bible literally or not?

I'm not Freud, but it seems to me your word choices reflect more than just a standard lack of understanding caused by not knowing the ins and outs of the scenario.

What are the ins and outs then?

I have a feeling you're mad at God for something, but it's none of my business.

God who? How could I be mad at something I don't believe exists?

In any event, do you realize that the Muslims say that was Ishmael that Abraham was told to sacrifice?

Are we talking about Muslims?

Had God not done this, it would be [a tad] harder to expose Islam as a false religion today.

So God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac in order to make sure that when Muslims came around, Christians would be able to tell them they're wrong? That's interesting.