God permits evil because we need to know

[childeye 2]

I do not think I communicated clearly. I am saying that as long as man has freewill, he can, and some will choose evil.

I don't think I communicated well either. I'm saying the only truly free will is one that is free from sin and therefore a servant of righteousness. The will that is free from righteousness is a servant to sin. It's how we qualify 'free' in front of 'will' that changes the definition of "free will". You're probably aware in scripture that we can't serve two masters. The free will you are talking about is a will equivocating between the two masters which should actually be contemplated as being doubleminded. We don't need sin to have a free will.

 

[fhansen]

I was thinking about God and the question of why does God permit evil since no one would permit evil if they had the power to stop it. But I think that the answer isn't as simple as having the power to stop evil and then just stopping it. What if there is value in evil? What if we have to know evil because otherwise we would spend eternity in a happy paradise wondering about the other possibilities beyond the good we are experiencing. Maybe we just needed to know. It's like having an itch that must be scratched even at the risk of a scar. Maybe experiencing evil is worth knowing. What if we enter the next life grateful we know evil and no longer have to experience it again. Maybe that knowledge was necessary for us to be happy and whole. Wouldn't you want your children to know evil? And if so then maybe we shouldn't question God for allowing evil.

To know or experience evil is to also come to know, to identify, true good, by contrast. It’s to touch the hot stove, to eat of the forbidden fruit, so that we may learn to hate it, to develop a distaste for it as we develop a hunger and thirst for truth and justice and righteousness, for goodness, alone, for God, the ultimate good. Then we should run, like prodigals, back to the father when He calls us by His grace so that we may gain entrance into the next life with Him.

Historical teachings maintain that God would never allow evil unless He planned to somehow use it bring about an even greater good at the end of the day, knowing the beggining from the end as He, alone, does.

 

[Dave L]

God created evil to make himself known according to Paul.

First, he says;

“What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” Romans 9:22–24 (KJV 1900)

And in Ephesians he says;

“And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,” Ephesians 3:9–10 (KJV 1900)

Apart from sin, we have nothing to show God's attributes of righteousness, mercy goodness, grace, wrath, sovereignty, and all that we know from scripture about him.

 

[Liam Hayden]

Joseph in Genesis 50:20, “You meant evil against me, but God used it for good.”

One problem is that what we call evil is, from God perspective, used for good. Another issue could be that, without evil, God's great attributes of justice, grace, and mercy would not be exhibited.

 

[Marc Perry]

There’s evil in the world until Jesus returns, because God legally gave Adam the title deed to the world when He gave him complete dominion over the earth, and Adam transferred dominion to Satan when he fell.

That’s why satan is called the god of this world, and why it was a temptation for Jesus when he offered Him all the kingdom’s of this world because “they’ve been delivered unto me”.

Adam is who delivered the world to the devil.

The last Adam takes it back when He returns.

Life in this world can be hell on earth, because the devil is legally free to roam around as a roaring lion, seeking to devour, and to be the thief that can steal, kill, and destroy, for now.

Only Christians legally leave satans kingdom of darkness, and are translated into the kingdom of Christ.

Shalom.

It's a good answer. But what concerns me is you're level of certainty about an issue that is fundamentally uncertain.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I was thinking about God and the question of why does God permit evil since no one would permit evil if they had the power to stop it. But I think that the answer isn't as simple as having the power to stop evil and then just stopping it. What if there is value in evil? What if we have to know evil because otherwise we would spend eternity in a happy paradise wondering about the other possibilities beyond the good we are experiencing. Maybe we just needed to know. It's like having an itch that must be scratched even at the risk of a scar. Maybe experiencing evil is worth knowing. What if we enter the next life grateful we know evil and no longer have to experience it again. Maybe that knowledge was necessary for us to be happy and whole. Wouldn't you want your children to know evil? And if so then maybe we shouldn't question God for allowing evil.

Not everyone in heaven will have known evil. What about newborn and unborn babies? Evil exists because of free will. Unfortunately no one can choose to love God without free will. Any such attempt at love without free will would be of no real value. Sin exists because God created this world to cultivate and separate those who would choose to love Him from those who would reject Him.

 

[Sheila Davis]

I was thinking about God and the question of why does God permit evil since no one would permit evil if they had the power to stop it. But I think that the answer isn't as simple as having the power to stop evil and then just stopping it. What if there is value in evil? What if we have to know evil because otherwise we would spend eternity in a happy paradise wondering about the other possibilities beyond the good we are experiencing. Maybe we just needed to know. It's like having an itch that must be scratched even at the risk of a scar. Maybe experiencing evil is worth knowing. What if we enter the next life grateful we know evil and no longer have to experience it again. Maybe that knowledge was necessary for us to be happy and whole. Wouldn't you want your children to know evil? And if so then maybe we shouldn't question God for allowing evil.

 

[Sheila Davis]

My opinion is: God allows evil because of the *Judgement* of each Spirit housed in flesh bodies, judgement which must take place. It's not the flesh bodies that are judged, but the spirits within them. Judged according to the choices made, whether to choose obedience or rebellion - God or Lucifer. Lucifer represents rebellion, as he himself did. Therefore there is a good and there is evil and the choice it's left up to each individual spirit. At the fall of Adam, when Adam disobeyed, evil and death was unleashed into the world and fell upon all flesh - Evilness is Lucifer! And Lucifer is out to take as many as he can with him into damnation - and not by force, through cunning, deception, and knowing the true nature of the spirits and the desires of the flesh they live in. But as it is written who knows the mind of God or why he allows or disallows certain things.

 

[Blade]

"God permit evil ". We still do not know Him. Sin was found in Satan. We have to stop right there. We do not know Him. We are not puppets or slaves nor are the angels. We were told not to touch not to eat. That is what GOD said what He wanted. So knowing evil/sin does not in any way make one wiser.

See we are in a time bubble. With God there is no time. Satan didn't fall thousands of years ago. With God it just happened. Nothing was allow. Satan where sin was found in him and ANYONE that follows him are going to be judged. Your looking at this through the flesh. This is not the real realm.

Evil/sin has a reward it is death. You can not learn any good from it. God is not there at all.

 

[Noxot]

I was thinking about God and the question of why does God permit evil since no one would permit evil if they had the power to stop it. But I think that the answer isn't as simple as having the power to stop evil and then just stopping it. What if there is value in evil? What if we have to know evil because otherwise we would spend eternity in a happy paradise wondering about the other possibilities beyond the good we are experiencing. Maybe we just needed to know. It's like having an itch that must be scratched even at the risk of a scar. Maybe experiencing evil is worth knowing. What if we enter the next life grateful we know evil and no longer have to experience it again. Maybe that knowledge was necessary for us to be happy and whole. Wouldn't you want your children to know evil? And if so then maybe we shouldn't question God for allowing evil.

I think that evils value is in its rejection and so it has no value in itself. people and their freedom are valuable but being consumed by evil is not. Being saved by God is nice though. Evil is like a child falling down as he learns how to walk or like an extremely poor person that has to eat what little foods he can find. They're not preferable and so they cannot endure forever.

If we are to live forever then at least we understand what it is to be a corruptible creature. Now that we have gotten that out of the way...

 

[timothyu]

You know what is funny about having the knowledge of good and evil? Man will inevitably defend evil as having a purpose simply because we have the ability to self determine and that means change the definition of good and evil to suit our outlook or purposes. That in itself was considered evil.

 

[Noxot]

Humanities darkened freedom is a Pandora's Box. Being born into a corruptible world and being ignorant and weak sets us up for a great temptation. God hides to see what we will be like. we might would act different if we saw God so clearly. Are you really good if the only reason you don't break the law is because you fear punishment and retribution? So in this world many people don't even believe in God. it's both a hindrance and a great opportunity.

 

[JAL]

For God to eliminate evil he would need to eliminate freewill, Does anyone want that?

Absolutely I want that. Ideally God would have abstained from creating a world where evil and suffering are possible. Perhaps created nothing, or simply created us irreversibly holy - which is what heaven will be like regardless. I find that option a LOT better than 100 billion people born into a world of suffering followed by a term in hell for (possibly) most of them.

 

[JAL]

I was thinking about God and the question of why does God permit evil since no one would permit evil if they had the power to stop it. But I think that the answer isn't as simple as having the power to stop evil and then just stopping it. What if there is value in evil? What if we have to know evil because otherwise we would spend eternity in a happy paradise wondering about the other possibilities beyond the good we are experiencing. Maybe we just needed to know. It's like having an itch that must be scratched even at the risk of a scar. Maybe experiencing evil is worth knowing. What if we enter the next life grateful we know evil and no longer have to experience it again. Maybe that knowledge was necessary for us to be happy and whole. Wouldn't you want your children to know evil? And if so then maybe we shouldn't question God for allowing evil.

There is no value in evil, as implied in my previous post.

Let's cut to the chase. Here's why The Problem of Evil cannot be solved on traditional assumptions about God. He created a world of potential suffering either:
(A) just for the fun of it. This would make Him out to be a sadistic jerk.
(B) OR, because He felt He had no choice - he saw a NEED for this type of world.

Mainstream Christianity defines God as infinitely self-sufficient. Such a God has no unfulfilled wants or needs and therefore cannot justify this world. Historically Christian theologians have been sufficiently intellectually dishonest to feign "solutions" to The Problem of Evil. Very annoying.

Who, then, is Yahweh, and why in heaven's name would He NEED a bride? You'll have to read two lengthy posts to know my opinion on the matter. See posts 850 and then 856 on a recent thread.

 

[Marc Perry]

There is no value in evil, as implied in my previous post.

Let's cut to the chase. Here's why The Problem of Evil cannot be solved on traditional assumptions about God. He created a world of potential suffering either:
(A) just for the fun of it. This would make Him out to be a sadistic jerk.
(B) OR, because He felt He had no choice - he saw a NEED for this type of world.

Mainstream Christianity defines God as infinitely self-sufficient. Such a God has no unfulfilled wants or needs and therefore cannot justify this world. Historically Christian theologians have been sufficiently intellectually dishonest to feign "solutions" to The Problem of Evil. Very annoying.

Who, then, is Yahweh, and why in heaven's name would He NEED a bride? You'll have to read two lengthy posts to know my opinion on the matter. See posts 850 and then 856 on a recent thread.

I never read where this post came from. I was just brought here by an internet recommendation.

But still ... keep a check on your certainty. You don't know anything and neither do I.

 

[disciple Clint]

Absolutely I want that. Ideally God would have abstained from creating a world where evil and suffering are possible. Perhaps created nothing, or simply created us irreversibly holy - which is what heaven will be like regardless. I find that option a LOT better than 100 billion people born into a world of suffering followed by a term in hell for (possibly) most of them.

Honestly I do not think you truly want that. It would be like being dead. It would be like being a robot. There would be no joy or disappointment or love. Life would be without meaning. God does not make us Holy we choose to be Holy even in heaven we still have freewill. Yes there is suffering in this world do to freewill but there is also love, companionship, compassion, accomplishment, and sharing. Would life be worth anything without these things? God made us in His image so that we can truly love and be loved.

 

[JAL]

Honestly I do not think you truly want that. It would be like being dead. It would be like being a robot. There would be no joy or disappointment or love. Life would be without meaning. God does not make us Holy we choose to be Holy even in heaven we still have freewill. Yes there is suffering in this world do to freewill but there is also love, companionship, compassion, accomplishment, and sharing. Would life be worth anything without these things? God made us in His image so that we can truly love and be loved.

False. In heaven we will NOT "choose" to be holy, we will NOT have radical freedom anymore. Certainly we'll have limited freedom, the ability to choose between various good options but no desires for evil.

Easy to prove. Heaven purports to be rest from all suffering, pain, misery, labor. Therefore we will no longer suffer the agony of temptation.

 

[disciple Clint]

False. In heaven we will NOT "choose" to be holy, we will NOT have radical freedom anymore. Certainly we'll have limited freedom, the ability to choose between various good options but no desires for evil.

Easy to prove. Heaven purports to be rest from all suffering, pain, misery, labor. Therefore we will no longer suffer the agony of temptation.

I hope that is not the best evidence you can provide to prove the validate of your post. that is one vast leap in logic you have made.

 

[JAL]

I never read where this post came from. I was just brought here by an internet recommendation.

But still ... keep a check on your certainty. You don't know anything and neither do I.

Certainty? I have good reason to assert and defend my points as vigorously as everyone else, namely I have a stronger commitment to the law of non-contradiction (LNC) than traditional theologians do. How so? Mainstream theologians are committed to a set of dogmas presumed non-negotiable, for example DDS (Doctrine of Divine Simplicity). Those dogmas take precedence over LNC. I had no such prior commitments when I was developing my own theology.

But yes, I realize I am fallible, and that's why, for example, my signature on this forum is a disclaimer to that effect. Moreover, human fallibility is precisely why I champion the primacy of Direct Revelation above exegesis (and thus reject Sola Scriptura). This in fact is my biggest beef with traditional theology. For example click here for a 16-point rebuttal of Sola Scriptura.

 

[JAL]

I hope that is not the best evidence you can provide to prove the validate of your post. that is one vast leap in logic you have made.

How is that a rebuttal? You didn't prove the argument invalid. So you think heaven will be a place of suffering? (I sure hope not). Any Scripture to back this up?