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Featured God permits evil because we need to know

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by ImAllLikeOkWaitWat, Nov 18, 2020 at 9:38 PM.

  1. ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

    ImAllLikeOkWaitWat For who can resist his will?

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    I was thinking about God and the question of why does God permit evil since no one would permit evil if they had the power to stop it. But I think that the answer isn't as simple as having the power to stop evil and then just stopping it. What if there is value in evil? What if we have to know evil because otherwise we would spend eternity in a happy paradise wondering about the other possibilities beyond the good we are experiencing. Maybe we just needed to know. It's like having an itch that must be scratched even at the risk of a scar. Maybe experiencing evil is worth knowing. What if we enter the next life grateful we know evil and no longer have to experience it again. Maybe that knowledge was necessary for us to be happy and whole. Wouldn't you want your children to know evil? And if so then maybe we shouldn't question God for allowing evil.
     
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  2. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Adam chose to internalize knowing good and evil in his Godlike state, this spread sin throughout the creation. Since his imagination had no self control, both good and evil manifested at once.
     
  3. ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

    ImAllLikeOkWaitWat For who can resist his will?

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    But maybe this is exactly what God wanted to happen. If Adam never chose to know evil then he would never be mature. We need to know evil to mature we can't be mature adults if we don't know evil. So perhaps adam did the right thing in the end.
     
  4. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    The parable of the elder and prodigal son says differently.

    There were other probabilities that we cannot know from this perspective.

    that's the impression I get anyway.
     
  5. ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

    ImAllLikeOkWaitWat For who can resist his will?

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    How does that parable say differently? The prodigal son rebelled and did whatever he wanted(evil) and the older son obeyed everything his father said and yet the prodigal son was praised in the end. Which seems to agree with what i'm saying about the necessities of evil. I don't think God wants us to just listen to everything he says I think he wants us to think for ourselves and we may get burnt along the way but he would prefer that over us lacking courage. I think thats the story anyways.
     
  6. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    How can we know what colossal screw ups we are without being put in quarantine in earth to experience the repercussions of our self serving ways which lead to self determination and gain at the expense of others. We have been given the alternate ways of the Kingdom as an option and remedy to the oppression we cause for each other. The choice, as in the Garden we were banished from, remains ours... our will or His.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020 at 12:03 AM
  7. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    I've considered that possibility, and the necessity of it.

    Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world?
    ....
    Do you not know that we will judge angels?
    -- 1 Corinthians 6

    How will we be qualified to judge the world and even judge angels without knowing good and evil as God does?

    But the lesson is very, very hard.
     
  8. RickReads

    RickReads Well-Known Member

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    God restrains His hand for our sake. He allows the tares to grow to save the wheat. His intervention will have consequences.

    Amos 5:18, "Woe unto you that desire the day of the Lord! to what end is it for you? the day of the Lord is darkness, and not light."
     
  9. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Consider something else. Adam and Eve were not made for this world but for God's private domain, the Garden. The Garden was not like the world we know for it did not have the ways of the world, the self serving survival instincts of the creatures within. Good and evil were the foundation of this universe we comprehend. When Adam and Eve became self aware and used the knowledge of good and evil to self justify their actions, they no longer belonged in the Garden but were one with the world which we all know, acting in the same way as the creatures within but who were not and are not self aware. Perhaps there is a clue here as to how the Adversary rebelled and why it rules this domain. Two different worlds, a Garden and this world. They were cast out into this world of opposites, this world unlike the Garden or Heaven.. The hope is that God can remedy our rebellious nature when we become aware His way trumps ours and we repent of such. Until we can leave this universe we comprehend we can never experience the Garden/Kingdom awaiting us, but we are to trust in Him over ourselves, repent of the way this world is built in our and the Adversary's image, and chose His will over ours and try to live in the ways of the Kingdom, focusing on others over self.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2020 at 10:46 AM
  10. DiscipleHeLovesToo

    DiscipleHeLovesToo Regular Member Supporter

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    God permits free will for all people; many people use that free will to permit evil. God is merciful, and has postponed judgement against people for permitting evil; this to allow people time to change and stop permitting evil - but He will surely judge evil, and when He does judge, evil will never be permitted again.

    Adam and Eve had only knowledge of Good before they chose evil; the devil had to introduce the concept of evil to them as something to be desired, because they knew nothing of sickness, poverty, slavery, destruction, death, etc. - they knew only Good...

    what benefit is there in knowing evil? is health somehow made better by sickness? does poverty have advantage over prosperity? is freedom enhanced by its loss? is creation improved by destruction? can death add to life?

    God does not allow evil in heaven; but 'the earth hath He given to the Sons of men', who have and do allow evil.
     
  11. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    For God to eliminate evil he would need to eliminate freewill, Does anyone want that?
     
  12. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    ;
    Would not freewill be useful if all we were to do was use it in the best interests of others rather than self?
     
  13. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

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    And maybe it could be that way if man was not prideful but since that is not the case, man is going to misuse his agency.
     
  14. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Evil is a hard lesson which, I agree, we had to learn ... if only, in order to avoid it.

    God allowed us to touch the hot stove ... so that we might know the ramifications.

    Plus, I think that experiencing and struggling against evil matures us ... so that we might be likeminded to our great Father.
     
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  15. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    So that means the problem is not freewill.
     
  16. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member Supporter

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    This is only one of the many reasons. Unlike God Himself, the capability of Law is limited to judge one's past behavior. So in order to destroy evil by Law, past deeds become a must.

    The New Covenant means God can carry out a more thorough and more fair judgment, as it is no longer limited to one's past, it's not limited to one's deeds.
     
  17. Sophrosyne

    Sophrosyne Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

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    Evil can simply be put as a choice of "not God" in the end. God wants us to love him as much as he loves us, and in our choice of loving him it isn't an on/off switch in the flesh there is variations and intensity of love from liking to passionate love to totally obsessed with love for God. Likewise is the opposite spectrum choosing "not God" it goes from just basically disliking God (related to the idea of him) to hatred of God, to totally obsessed to opposing God at all costs. Those who go down this path just like those who fall in love it often starts with liking and continues on to the extreme and the extreme of rejecting God's love (choosing "Not God") is to destroy anything of God there is and since we are created in God's image we see evil people attacking everything around them as in their minds they associate it with God and want nothing of it.
    If God were to limit evil (man's will) I believe it is possible that he may have to rely on dampening the intensity of which we approach God with love and lowering intensity means less opposition and destruction of things of God but at the cost of the intensity Christians have to love God AND love one another.
    I personally believe that God allows us the maximum amount of free will (not limiting intensity of our wills) within his plans for mankind knowing that some instances of evil will go too far to oppose him that they could possibly thwart his plans. I think in the end people will not be able to cry foul in that they aren't allowed unfettered choices to choose or reject God in their lives.
     
  18. 1213

    1213 Disciple of Jesus

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    By what the Bible tells, people were created into world where everything was good and they were without evil. But then they wanted to know evil like God knows. Sad thing is, they could have also asked directly from God and so could have learned like children what it means. I think it was not necessary to know, but it was good that God allowed it.
     
  19. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    But not this world.
     
  20. ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

    ImAllLikeOkWaitWat For who can resist his will?

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    I don't think you can learn what evil is by being told it. To truly learn what evil is you have to experience it. There are some lessons in life that can only be learned from experience. It was necessary to know evil because without it we would all be naive.
     
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