God loving evolutionist

[JohnR7]

Then why do you tell us that Romans 1 applies to theistic evolutionist, when, by definition, theistic evolutionists are doing exactly what God calls us to to do to not be considered fools. Theistic evolutions look to creation to see revelation of the invisible nature, namely Gods eternal power and deity, that is clearly perceived in the things that God has made.

That I would consider a debatable subject. Looking at creation maybe doing "exactly what God calls us to to do'. But I am not so sure that the popular evolutionary theory does God honor, nor do I feel it glorifies Him.

As I said, even if there were truth in it, there is just to much error. Over the last 100 years there has been a lot of error exposed in evolutionary theory and they continue to expose it's error all the time.

Let us look at what Talk Origin dot com says about it:

"Most non-scientists seem to be quite confused about precise definitions of biological evolution. Such confusion is due in large part to the inability of scientists to communicate effectively to the general public and also to confusion among scientists themselves about how to define such an important term".

Not only do evolutionists admit there is confusion among the general public, but also there is confusion among scientists.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-definition.html

Needless to say, confusion is not of God. In fact it is pretty safe to say that there is confusion when God is NOT a part fo something.

1 Cor. 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

James 3:16
For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.

 

[notto]

Needless to say, confusion is not of God. In fact it is pretty safe to say that there is confusion when God is NOT a part fo something.

Should we list all of the differences, confusions, and outright contradictions in Creationists explainations of creation and the flood - even between them, there is much division - AIG, ICR, Hovind, Baugh - there is no consistency there. OEC, YEC, and your views contradict each other each day. I guess the same would hold true by your thinking for Creationism, God is NOT a part of it.

 

[JohnR7]

You say that, but in another thread you posted this:

That was a quote and I gave a link. From time to time I will bring up a web page I see on the internet for discussion. No one ever bothered to look at the web page I got it from, they just commented on the quote.

Actually I am kinda sorry I did that because sometimes people do misunderstand that it is a quote and they think it is something I said.

It would have been a interesting subject if anyone could have understood the concept behind it. But once again it went right over peoples heads and the conversation about it want no where.

That was the second time I brought up the topic about the relationship between the creation or the universe and what we are able to preceive of the universe of creation. What has been called Einstein's Gulf. But so far I have not been able to get a conversation going about it.

 

[lucaspa]

Did you know that ALL LIERS will be thrown into the Lake of Fire?

Rev. 21:8
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

So, it your are saying I am a liar, then you are saying I am not saved. Do you think you have the right to judge me to determine if I am a christian or not according to scripture?

JohnR7, you have stated many times that your purpose in this forum is to save those of us who accept evolution. Well, if you think we need saving that means that you have judged us and determined that we are not Christian according to scripture.

This is simply sauce for the goose. You think you can determine that other people are not Christian, so why can't other people look at you to determine if you are?

 

[lucaspa]

Exactly. This view of the world, that it basically runs itself without God's help most of the time and that God has to perform a miracle if he wants to get anything done, seems to be pretty common among creationists. It doesn't have much to do with traditional Christian beliefs about God and nature. Christianity has generally seen nature to be wholly dependent on God at all times.

It's god-of-the-gaps theology. God is only present in the gaps of science. But, as you have seen, this assumes the atheistic belief that natural = without God.

(Although it does seem a little similar to the belief you sometimes see reflected in the Ol Testament, that Yahweh is one god among many.)

The first accounts within Judaism -- the Exodus -- do have Yahweh as only one deity among many. It's just that Yahweh is the deity of Israel, not that the others don't exist.

Later, the idea changed to that of Yahweh as the ONLY deity. Genesis 1 marks a significant event in that change.

 

[lucaspa]

So for me, I just do not want to be a part of man's error, even if there is "truth" mixed in. OR what appears to be truth. I want to say as far away from the error of man that I can. Becasue when God's wrath is poured out, I do not want to be anywhere near the things He is going to pour His wrath out on.

So you stick to your errors of misunderstanding and misrepresenting evolution on the one hand and your errors of misinterpreting and quoting the Bible on the other. I think I'll stand as far away from you as I can, if you don't mind.

 

[lucaspa]

It is as if people want to worship and serve creation, rather than the Creator. It is as if God is not a part of their life. So they just can not see Him as a direct part of creation. Very much like in the book of Romans.

As I look at it, it is Worship4ever who cannot see God as a direct part of creation. Worship4ever is quite happy to have nature work without God in the form of the "natural" laws. In fact, God is so separate that God can only interact with nature by isolated miraculous events.

The book of Romans refers to making false idols, doesn't it? Well, creationists have made a false idol of their interpretation of the Bible. Thank you, John, for showing just how much trouble creationists are in.

 

[JohnR7]

Should we list all of the differences, confusions, and outright contradictions in Creationists explainations of creation and the flood - even between them, there is much division - AIG, ICR, Hovind, Baugh - there is no consistency there.

It is not my place to judge individual Christians. It is even against the rules of this forum to judge individual people. One of the forums just removed a thread about mother Teresa, because it was very critical of her. We are not here to put down people. We are to lift up and encourage one another in the Lord. We are to edify the Body.

I talk about a dead, harlot, apostate church all the time on here. But I do not ever make any suggestions who may be a part of it. I do not even in my own thinking label any individual or church as a part of the great apostasy that we know is upon us.

Jesus had spent 3 years with his disciples. But He did not directly send them out to do ministry. He told them to: "tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high." That means they were not go go out in their own power or ability. They were to be filled with the Holy Spirit and they were given power from Heaven to do ministry.

There are to many today who deny the Holy Spirit and thus they deny the power of God. They "have a form of godliness but deny its power". Paul advises us to stay away from people like that.

 

[lucaspa]

Needless to say, confusion is not of God. In fact it is pretty safe to say that there is confusion when God is NOT a part fo something.

1 Cor. 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

James 3:16
For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.

Let's test this claim. If God is not part of something, there is confusion. Well, let's start with the disciples and Paul. There was confusion and dissension among them as to what Gentiles had to do to be saved.

Let's move ahead to the nature of God and Jesus. There were many heresies over the matter: Gnosticism, Marcionism, Donatism, etc. In the 4th and 5th century we have the whole argument between Arianism and Trinity. Lots of confusion.

Then there is the Reformation. And the 20,000 Christian denominations in the world today. Within Angley's church, there is the confusion of lawsuits as to whether he has really healed or not.

If you are correct, John, about confusion and God, then you have shown that God is absent from ALL of Christianity.

Good job, again. Once again, by pretending to be Christian and by proposing a silly criteria that you hope will get rid of evolution, you have instead found an argument to destroy Christianity.

Your sig talks about being your own worst enemy. The monomaniacal resistance to evolution is Christianity's worst enemy.

 

[JohnR7]

As I look at it, it is Worship4ever who cannot see God as a direct part of creation.

I would try to help him out if I could, but he will need to carry his own on this one. It is all I can do to defend my beliefs, because often I have five people at a time attaching me on various things. Then they all like to go on and on why I do not spend all of my time, night and day coming up with answers for their one billion nine hundred and fifty six questions. When I know fully well they are going to totally disregard the answer and not give it any consideration at all.

But when someone comes up with a honest question. Then I have all the time in the world to deal with that.

 

[JohnR7]

If you are correct, John, about confusion and God, then you have shown that God is absent from ALL of Christianity.

Strawman arguement guy, strawman arguement.

Besides, even if something is not of God, He is able to cause good to come out of it. All of the mess we made out of our life before we got saved, when we invite God into our life then He can cause good to come out of it.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

 

[lucaspa]

Originally Posted By: notto

Should we list all of the differences, confusions, and outright contradictions in Creationists explainations of creation and the flood - even between them, there is much division - AIG, ICR, Hovind, Baugh - there is no consistency there.

It is not my place to judge individual Christians. ... But I do not ever make any suggestions who may be a part of it. I do not even in my own thinking label any individual or church as a part of the great apostasy that we know is upon us.

LOL!
1. Nice duck. You put up the criteria that confusion indicates the absence of God. Notto points out that creationists contradict each other all the time. They sow endless confusion about which is the correct version of creationism and within their own versions of creationism. You've sown your own fair share with your 5 different and contradictory versions of creationism. Therefore, by your criteria, God is absent from creationism.

Now, rather than face the inevitable consequence of YOUR criteria, you quickly duck into the "I don't judge mode".

2. Such modesty won't work after you already judged theistic evolutionists to be fools and separated from God.

There are to many today who deny the Holy Spirit and thus they deny the power of God. They "have a form of godliness but deny its power". Paul advises us to stay away from people like that.

How about those who claim the power but lack the godliness? Those who claim to have the Holy Spirit but who deny God in His Creation?

 

[JohnR7]

Your sig talks about being your own worst enemy.

We are our own best friend or our own worst enemy. Because it does not matter what other people do or say. All that matters is how we react, respond or how we deal with it. Esp. if we walk in Godly love for all people. Even we are to love our enemy in the hope they will turn away from the error of their way and come to a saving knowledge of the truth.

If you want to talk about the best friend we will ever have. That would be Jesus. He is perfect in His love for us, so He always wants the very best for us at all times in all situations. Even He sacrificed Himself for us so that we could benifit.

 

[JohnR7]

LOL! Notto points out that creationists contradict each other all the time. They sow endless confusion about which is the correct version of creationism and within their own versions of creationism.

Yes, now, lets look at what brother Paul has to say about that:

1 Cor. 11:18-19
For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. [19] For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Do I really need to explain to you what Paul is telling us here. Or are you able to figure it out for yourself? Remember, God has given you the Holy Spirit to help you to be your teacher so that you can understand the meaning of this passage.

 

[Nathan David]

That was a quote and I gave a link. From time to time I will bring up a web page I see on the internet for discussion.

Then I suggest you use the "quote" feature to avoid confusion. It looked to me like you were saying those things.

 

[JohnR7]

LOL! 2. Such modesty won't work after you already judged theistic evolutionists to be fools and separated from God.

What is your evidence to back up what you are saying? Did you use to like to build snowmen when you were a child? Because you sure do like to build strawmen arguements now.

You seem to like to accuse people also. Do think that is of God? Do you really think that you represent God when you do this? Perhaps your making an effort to learn about God, but you still have a lot to learn.

We should not need to teach you these things. The Holy Spirit of God can be your teacher to lead you into all truth. I think that perhaps you want to know the truth.

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

 

[JohnR7]

Then I suggest you use the "quote" feature to avoid confusion. It looked to me like you were saying those things.

Yes, I was thinking that very same thing myself. Even just to protect myself so that people do not think it is something I said. Those little quote marks are to easy to ignore when we have a really nice quote function on here that makes it really clear that it is a quote.

 

[Nathan David]

John, the part I was referring to did not have quote marks at all. There was nothing to identify it as a quote.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Lol Johnny, you knew I wasn't going to stay away from this...

It is not my place to judge individual Christians. It is even against the rules of this forum to judge individual people. One of the forums just removed a thread about mother Teresa, because it was very critical of her. We are not here to put down people. We are to lift up and encourage one another in the Lord. We are to edify the Body.

And let's see how well you followed this rule in post #55 at http://www.christianforums.com/t46242&page=6

You are a dead man Nathan. I mean your not just asleep, your a walking talking dead man when it comes to God and the things of God.

Now, you were mentioning something about your place to judge, and about judging individual people. What was that again?

I talk about a dead, harlot, apostate church all the time on here. But I do not ever make any suggestions who may be a part of it.

Of course you do. Anyone who doesn't agree with your definition of "Christian." Post #61 in the same thread.

The only so called "christianity" that I would want to push people away from is the dead, harlot, apostate church. So they can find true Christianity and so they can find the true and the living God.

A lot of people claim to have been raised Christian, but their life does not show any evidence of it. So they were most likely raised in a dead church that God was not a part of.

I do not even in my own thinking label any individual or church as a part of the great apostasy that we know is upon us.

Sweeping generalizations seem more your style.

 

[worship4ever]

lucaspa: at what point in all my posts did you come to this conclusion that i believe that God is not a direct part of creation, because ive only posted otherwise, God being the SOLE source for creation. You say im quite happy to let Nature do everything and leave God out of it. Well, once again, where did you come to that conclusion. If God wants He can work outside the mere natural means of science. God set forth the laws of nature, yet narure itself did not create all we see today. Please, show me my posts where i have shown overwise, i guantree its your misintriptation again.