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All of this and you couldn't just say "Yes, Christ had the freedom of Choice." or "No, Christ did not have the freedom of choice".
Yes Jesus did the will of His Father, but that wasn't because He had no option, but because He delights to do it.
Stryder, here your view is not making sense.
I answered your question plainly. Did Jesus have free will? Yes.
Now answer my question. Did God know BEFORE JESUS WENT that Jesus would choose the right way and the plan would be successful?
Did God know what Jesus would choose?
If so then there was no risk. There was pain, there was difficulty but there was no risk because it was already known that it would be successful.
Risk is if you don't know if something will be successful but you undertake it anyway.
There was ZERO doubt on God's part that it would not be successful. Or else you admit God doesn't know the end from the beginning.
According to the Scripture He delights to do it "eternally" and because He always does the will of the Father...
...That PRECLUDES Him from ever doing ANYTHING against the will of the Father.
...This is the constant teaching of the Scriptures...
Stryder, here your view is not making sense.
I answered your question plainly. Did Jesus have free will? Yes.
Now answer my question. Did God know BEFORE JESUS WENT that Jesus would choose the right way and the plan would be successful?
Did God know what Jesus would choose?
If so then there was no risk. There was pain, there was difficulty but there was no risk because it was already known that it would be successful.
Risk is if you don't know if something will be successful but you undertake it anyway.
There was ZERO doubt on God's part that it would not be successful. Or else you admit God doesn't know the end from the beginning.
46And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
I see you are not reading the whole thread again. I will give you the same answer as DL
Because He felt forsaken. And because He was drawing their attention to the psalm they were even then fulfilling, the Psalm that predicted His death for us.
Here you prove the point. This was one hundred percent known to happen before Jesus was sent. It was recorded in psalm 22.
Psa 22:1 To the choirmaster: according to The Doe of the Dawn. A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, from the words of my groaning?
This same psalm records other info about the crucifixion:
Psa 22:7 All who see me mock me; they make mouths at me; they wag their heads;
Psa 22:8 "He trusts in the LORD; let him deliver him; let him rescue him, for he delights in him!"
Psa 22:16 For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet--
Psa 22:17 I can count all my bones-- they stare and gloat over me;
Psa 22:18 they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots.
It was known that this would happen. It was written before Jesus ever came. There was no doubt about how it would go.
And therefore there was no risk because it was clear before Jesus even went that it would be successful.
I did not duck it at all. I already responded to it.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7629290-3/#post59714818
Your lottery ticket is a bad example.
God knew what would happen BEFORE He "bought the ticket". Or to put it another way, if God knows the winning lotto number in advance He is going to choose the winning lotto number.
If God knew in advance that a given course of action would fail He would not take it.
If He knew in advance that it would work, the where is the risk? Unless you believe God can be wrong of course.
No risk that it might not be sure? Huh?
Ah the old "balancing statement" explanation.
Ellen Whites two things that are opposite and it makes "balance" .
Her statements here are not the same as when she says there is risk in the other.
One shows God knows the future. The other says He does not.
I think the problem is that you see God seeing the future as God setting the events of the future in stone.
that is odd, it does for me.It does not redirect to your post.
It's a valid example because when you put the course in the hand of one who is also full human, there is always risk.
Looking back with the result, the odds didn't change during the process.
Again, God looks at the time dimension in the present tense. So your concept of the progression of the time does not apply to God.
'There is risk' doesn't mean God doesn't know the future. In plain English, she wrote, God knows the future.
The gospel writers wrote that Christ Himself feared the uncertainty.
It's a valid example because when you put the course in the hand of one who is also full human, there is always risk.
If it didn't happen the way He saw it then it would not be seeing the future, would it?
So yes, if God sees something as happening, it will happen.
Yes it will happen. But that doesn't mean that God is forcing it to happen that way. Free choice involves risk. That's why it's called choice. If there's not risk involved, then there's no choice.
Yes it will happen. But that doesn't mean that God is forcing it to happen that way.
Free choice involves risk. That's why it's called choice. If there's not risk involved, then there's no choice.
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