God knows the end from the beginning....or does He?

[EastCoastRemnant]

Well then, why wait? Get on board with all her advice.

Meat eating can be the first to go.

I'll let the Spirit lead thank you...

 

[tall73]

I'll let the Spirit lead thank you...

That is great news! I favor that view much more than letting Ellen White lead.

Work some Bible passages in there too for checking your perception of the Spirit.

 

[tall73]

Now after our diversion,


Did God know that His Son's garments would be gambled over?

Or was that a roll of the dice?

 

[tall73]

What did Jesus say about preaching the message?

What did Peter say when the Pharisees commanded them to stop?

 

[OntheDL]

Yes, your comment calling me satanic for trying to follow what I believe the Bible is saying doesn't bother me anymore.

This is how you twist things. I didn't say you are satanic. I said the posts of the repeated coercion is the spirit of Satan because Jesus said if they don't receive you, shake the dust off and move on. You do the opposite.

There never was a time when you were fine with folks who felt they needed to discuss issues that were bothering them. I was here in this forum early on defending these teachings of the Adventist chuch. And when issues came up, I discussed them where I was already discussing theological issues.

If you have an honest question, I'd give you an honest answer. I have always done that to anyone.

You just pretend there are no issues...but at the same time say IF there are...well they don't matter to you.

Well I must be a sucker for fable and you are the sincere truth seeker.

Now, I don't recall going to any Adventist church and telling them things.
In fact I have gone to several since I left the church and left those issues alone. I still go with my grandma at times, and make no effort to disrupt anything.

Strangely they even offered to have me teach the Sabbath school one time! lol

I just whispered to the one who offered that would be inadvisable and moved on.

I have no idea what you do.

I'm talking about you postings here.

Now as to forums, you are afraid of discussion on forums? They coerce you?

Afraid? I'm not on anyone's payroll to say anything or not to say thing. It's just that you are an irritant because you have no intention of agreeing to disagree and respecting others' view.

Your church makes their mission to call other church members out of their churches. Are you not doing your mission?

My church? The bible commissions the calling out. But we don't camp out on their forum and jam it down their throat.

Do you think Adventists should get all ruffled if folks take exception to their claims?

I can't speak for others. But I'm quite fine when people don't see what I saw. I'm just glad I saw it.

However I do have a problem with people who are paid by the SDA church but tries to destroy their beliefs. And I do have a problem with nagging and you nag more than any woman in my life.

 

[Pythons]

I think you lack reading comprehend, or that's by design? The explanation couldn't have been said any clearer.

1. God looks at past and future in present tense. So you assume God perceived the way you would with past results. So base on that assumption you assume that's a contradiction. I don't see it that way. Don't assume things.

I'm just reading the Bible where it says after everything was all done and over with...
...That God would be victorious via His Christ.
...& given that Salvation was specifically a "work of God".
...Any hypothetical outcome other then what God said "HE" would do is frankly insulting.

2. the bible has apparent contradiction. What do you do with them? I don't believe biblical inerrancy. The same for EGW writings.

Well, when one gives up reading the Bible in a literal sense & opts the literalist method...
...You end up with contradictions - the way I read it there is ZERO contradictions.

3. It's not salvational or theological. It simply does not matter.

When the Bible says Christ was "GOD MANIFESTED" and a prophet claims the manifestation had conditional deity...
...Which would have been revoked had this conditional God failed to meet the conditions of remaining God.
...YES - that's a Salvational and theological issue.

The teaching of Antichrist is that God did NOT come in the flesh.

Now clear enough for you? Thank you.

Not really OntheDL - I'm still trying to understand the mechanism you are using...
...To validate a hypothetical about God which Scripture explicitly states is impossible.


Fact: The Bible says that God knows the end from the beginning.

Fact: God communicated to us via the Bible that He would not fail.

Fact: God communicated to us He would provide Salvation through His Christ.

Fact: Christ affirms prior to the Cross that He is ( already ) the truth and the life.

Fact: Siemon was told he would NOT see death until he witnessed the Christ with his own eyes.

You are maintaining that there was a "risk" that God's Christ could have failed...
...And IF that had happened The Father would have LOST His Son eternally.
...Would this affirmation of yours be one of those contradictions you mentioned?

 

[OntheDL]

I'm just reading the Bible where it says after everything was all done and over with...
...That God would be victorious via His Christ.
...& given that Salvation was specifically a "work of God".
...Any hypothetical outcome other then what God said "HE" would do is frankly insulting.

Well, when one gives up reading the Bible in a literal sense & opts the literalist method...
...You end up with contradictions - the way I read it there is ZERO contradictions.

When the Bible says Christ was "GOD MANIFESTED" and a prophet claims the manifestation had conditional deity...
...Which would have been revoked had this conditional God failed to meet the conditions of remaining God.
...YES - that's a Salvational and theological issue.

The teaching of Antichrist is that God did NOT come in the flesh.

Not really OntheDL - I'm still trying to understand the mechanism you are using...
...To validate a hypothetical about God which Scripture explicitly states is impossible.

Fact: The Bible says that God knows the end from the beginning.

Fact: God communicated to us via the Bible that He would not fail.

Fact: God communicated to us He would provide Salvation through His Christ.

Fact: Christ affirms prior to the Cross that He is ( already ) the truth and the life.

Fact: Siemon was told he would NOT see death until he witnessed the Christ with his own eyes.

You are maintaining that there was a "risk" that God's Christ could have failed...
...And IF that had happened The Father would have LOST His Son eternally.
...Would this affirmation of yours be one of those contradictions you mentioned?

Wait a second! I just make sure you are a Roman Catholic and you are talking about the bible is the standard to scrutinize doctrine and practice?

You are trying a make a mountain from an ant hill on a non-salvational, non-theological issue, while Catholic church makes a dead woman to be the co-mediator and co-redemtrix, places the church tradition to be equal of the scriptures, worship idols the bible clearly forbids, sells indulgence as a means of forgiveness, gives sinful men the prerogatives of Christ...

Have you looked into the looking glass first?

 

[Pythons]

Wait a second! I just make sure you are a Roman Catholic and you are talking about the bible is the standard to scrutinize doctrine and practice?

I never said the Bible was THE Standard...
...However I'm glad you admit that you are no more 'Bible Only' than I am.

I'm interested in this topic because the hypothetical of God loosing His salvation...
...IF "God sinned" and another member of the Trinity would be required to annihilate Him.
...Seems very alien to me - it appears to go against Scriptures and it absolutely goes against the creed.

Does God know the end from the beginning AND can we take what God promises to the bank or not?

You are trying a make a mountain from an ant hill on a non-salvational, non-theological issue, while Catholic church makes a dead woman to be the co-mediator and co-redemtrix, places the church tradition to be equal of the scriptures, worship idols the bible clearly forbids, sells indulgence as a means of forgiveness, gives sinful men the prerogatives of Christ...

Have you looked into the looking glass first?

I can respect that I am in your forum and while I would love to talk to you about the Blessed Virgin...
...It's my understanding that isn't allowed - what is allowed is discussion about SDA teaching.
....That God knows the end from the beginning EXCEPT for when God said He wouldn't fail, or sin, or loose.


Evidently it was VERY important to Ellen White that God manifest had to work out His own salvation....
...This appears to be something within SDA theology I have not yet identified.
...Why else would Ellen have put so much effort into teaching God could have failed / lost His eternal Salvation, etc.

Pardon my interest in this but that seems like a most amazing teaching...
...I'm just trying to understand it.

You saying; "it's not a salvational or theological issue" stuns me, seriously....
...This is the infinite God we are talking about here and how we are to take positive affirmations He made in the Scriptures.
...Did God tell us what was going to end up happening? Did God know the end from the beginning or did He just 'guess'?


__________________
And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

 

[tall73]

And I do have a problem with nagging and you nag more than any woman in my life.

Lol issues with women now too?

 

[tall73]

This is how you twist things. I didn't say you are satanic. I said the posts of the repeated coercion is the spirit of Satan because Jesus said if they don't receive you, shake the dust off and move on. You do the opposite.

I didn't coerce you into doing anything.

If you express doubt and that Ellen White could have been wrong on a couple statements, that is your conclusion.

If you have an honest question, I'd give you an honest answer. I have always done that to anyone.

People can read the threads from that period and decide.

Well I must be a sucker for fable and you are the sincere truth seeker.

Could be you are

You will defend even wrong statements of Ellen White such as ones that short-cut God's knowledge of the end from the beginning.

 

[tall73]

I'm talking about you postings here.

Then why mention a church?

 

[tall73]

This is how you twist things. I didn't say you are satanic. I said the posts of the repeated coercion is the spirit of Satan because Jesus said if they don't receive you, shake the dust off and move on. You do the opposite.

A. You are not the only one I am speaking to here. There are some who are listening. And did Peter stop preaching because some told him to stop?

B. Are you sure you are rejecting it? It seems ECR, BC and now perhaps even you are not rejecting it. You see Ellen White does not agree with the Bible on this point.

 

[tall73]

Afraid? I'm not on anyone's payroll to say anything or not to say thing. It's just that you are an irritant because you have no intention of agreeing to disagree and respecting others' view.

Those pesky Bible quotes! Quite the irritant.

 

[tall73]

However I do have a problem with people who are paid by the SDA church but tries to destroy their beliefs. And I do have a problem with nagging and you nag more than any woman in my life.

It seems you have a problem with everyone paid by the Adventist church anyway. So that is hardly a shocker.

I preached the message till I developed questions. Then I tried to reconcile the questions. Then I left when I could not. That was as honestly done as I could manage, having no idea I would develop such questions. Afterall, I don't know the end from the beginning!

Now you think that is dishonest? Yet you complain about all those pastors who are brainwashed by the GC and keep preaching.

Maybe you are the only one not brainswashed? I doubt it.

 

[tall73]

My church? The bible commissions the calling out. But we don't camp out on their forum and jam it down their throat.

Your church proclaims themselves the remnant and every other church in error.

Hey, it is your message. Own it I say. But then don't whine when folks challenge it.

 

[tall73]

When the Bible says Christ was "GOD MANIFESTED" and a prophet claims the manifestation had conditional deity...
...Which would have been revoked had this conditional God failed to meet the conditions of remaining God.
...YES - that's a Salvational and theological issue.

The teaching of Antichrist is that God did NOT come in the flesh.

Good point there.

 

[tall73]

Fact: The Bible says that God knows the end from the beginning.

Fact: God communicated to us via the Bible that He would not fail.

Fact: God communicated to us He would provide Salvation through His Christ.

Fact: Christ affirms prior to the Cross that He is ( already ) the truth and the life.

Fact: Siemon was told he would NOT see death until he witnessed the Christ with his own eyes.

You are maintaining that there was a "risk" that God's Christ could have failed...
...And IF that had happened The Father would have LOST His Son eternally.
...Would this affirmation of yours be one of those contradictions you mentioned?

Sure sounds like Ellen White was contradicting the Scriptures to me.
But then you knew that

 

[tall73]

Wait a second! I just make sure you are a Roman Catholic and you are talking about the bible is the standard to scrutinize doctrine and practice?

You are trying a make a mountain from an ant hill on a non-salvational, non-theological issue, while Catholic church makes a dead woman to be the co-mediator and co-redemtrix, places the church tradition to be equal of the scriptures, worship idols the bible clearly forbids, sells indulgence as a means of forgiveness, gives sinful men the prerogatives of Christ...

Have you looked into the looking glass first?

Given your theology it must be challenging that you are rightly getting directed to the Scriptures by a Catholic.

 

[tall73]

We live in 4 dimensions. God lives outside the time dimension. Therefore he looks at past and future in the present tense the same way when we look at the physical (three) dimensions.

I asked you for Scriptures and you give this?


That isn't a Scripture.

We showed Scripture that God knows the end from the beginning. We showed Scripture that God predicted what would happen to His Son before His Son came.

Can you produce your Scripture that overrides that?

 

[Stryder06]

Your church proclaims themselves the remnant and every other church in error.

Hey, it is your message. Own it I say. But then don't whine when folks challenge it.

This has nothing to do with "owning" the message. It only seems to be the agenda of ex-adventist to go and try to tear down the message. I don't see individuals who switch denominations outside of our church, going back and campaigning against their former affiliation.

This has the Devil's signature all over it. Despite what you might think.