God knows the end from the beginning....or does He?

[OntheDL]

What Tall73 illustrated was an obvious contradiction between EGW and the Bible...
...THAT was the question contained in the O.P.
...Does God know the end from the beginning?

It's been established that God does know AND that God communicated His ultimate victory to us in Scripture...
...So if God knows and has communicated to us what He will do.
...What mechanism is employeed by SDA's to say God really didn't have the authority to be affirmative He would provide salvation?

I think you lack reading comprehend, or that's by design? The explanation couldn't have been said any clearer.

1. God looks at past and future in present tense. So you assume God perceived the way you would with past results. So base on that assumption you assume that's a contradiction. I don't see it that way. Don't assume things.

2. the bible has apparent contradiction. What do you do with them? I don't believe biblical inerrancy. The same for EGW writings.

3. It's not salvational or theological. It simply does not matter.

Now clear enough for you? Thank you.

 

[tall73]

I think you lack reading comprehend, or that's by design? The explanation couldn't have been said any clearer.

1. God looks at past and future in present tense. So you assume God perceived the way you would with past results. So base on that assumption you assume that's a contradiction. I don't see it that way. Don't assume things.

2. the bible has apparent contradiction. What do you do with them? I don't believe biblical inerrancy. The same for EGW writings.

3. It's not salvational or theological. It simply does not matter.

Now clear enough for you? Thank you.

So do you accept Joseph Smith too? If not, on what basis?

 

[tall73]

1. God looks at past and future in present tense. So you assume God perceived the way you would with past results. So base on that assumption you assume that's a contradiction. I don't see it that way. Don't assume things.

We have shown Scriptures that say God knows the end from the beginning.

We have shown Scriptures that show that God knew what would happen to Jesus in advance.

Where is your Scripture that shows God looking at past and future in the present tense or describing how He views it?

 

[OntheDL]

So do you accept Joseph Smith too? If not, on what basis?

Irrelevant.

 

[tall73]

Irrelevant.

So we will pencil you in as a maybe!

 

[tall73]

Irrelevant.

Actually it is not. If you do not use the Scriptures to judge later revelation, then how would you accept or reject or test any prophet?

1. Warm feeling in the bosom?
2. Coin toss?

 

[OntheDL]

We have shown Scriptures that say God knows the end from the beginning.

We have shown Scriptures that show that God knew what would happen to Jesus in advance.

Where is your Scripture that shows God looking at past and future in the present tense or describing how He views it?

We live in 4 dimensions. God lives outside the time dimension. Therefore he looks at past and future in the present tense the same way when we look at the physical (three) dimensions.

 

[OntheDL]

Actually it is not. If you do not use the Scriptures to judge later revelation, then how would you accept or reject or test any prophet?

1. Warm feeling in the bosom?
2. Coin toss?

Then I'll ask the same question I asked to another poster:

What about the contradictions in the bible? How do you look at them?

 

[tall73]

You think he could botch the plan of salvation? You really want that belief on your permanent record?

Hm, you think it would come up in the IJ?

 

[tall73]

Then I'll ask the same question I asked to another poster:

What about the contradictions in the bible? How do you look at them?

If I found some as significant as God doesn't know the future or that He could perish I would reject the Bible.

How many articles there were in the exile temple by different lists, not as big a deal.

Like you, I don't believe in verbal inspiration, nor necessarily inerrancy. However, the doctrines we are looking at here are not minor historical facts.

Incidentally, I rejected Joseph Smith when the mormon friends visited on some of the related texts showing God's immortality, rather than their view that He at one time was like us.

Was I wrong to do that?

 

[Kira Light]

Hm, you think it would come up in the IJ?

I suspect Jesus might do a double-take when he gets to the part where the SDA's on this forum think he could have failed in His plan of salvation.

 

[OntheDL]

I couldn't care less what you do.

Do you care if your conduct is Christ-like? Do you still call yourself a Christian? What did Jesus say about preaching the message? Pound them into submission? That's the coercion, the spirit of Satan.

It's quite clear what kind of spirit is demonstrated here.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

It is interesting that just in the last couple of weeks ECR has said he picks and chooses and doesn't accept everything Ellen White says.

Didn't say I was justified in doing so, just that I did...

I do not claim to be doing it all perfectly and as I said in my last post, we are laodicea, we can justify anything. The HolySpirit will earn His 'wage' in convicting and converting me to a complete overcomer...

But the differnce is, I am not giving up on my faith because I don't understand or agree with somethings at the present... how arrogant would it be of me to think I know best. I can trust that the Lord will reveal all things to me as I surrender my prideful spirit to Him.

 

[tall73]

Do you care if your conduct is Christ-like? Do you still call yourself a Christian? What did Jesus say about preaching the message? Pound them into submission? That's the coercion, the spirit of Satan.

It's quite clear what kind of spirit is demonstrated here.

If you think I am satanic, that is fine. Your opinion doesn't bother me anymore. I was a heretic as soon as i stopped believing the IJ according to some.

But the Bible texts don't change because I am the one pointing them out.


Now, do you think Jesus was Chrislike (funny question huh) when He called the pharisees whitewashed tombs?

Was Peter Christlike when he confronted the leaders with killing the author of life?

I am not Peter, and I am not Jesus. But raising issues and pointing to Scriptures is not "coercion"

 

[OntheDL]

Incorrect. I studied here for a time to try to resolve my own doubts and when I couldn't I resigned.

But think whichever you want, it is just a distraction from the wrong things that Ellen White said that you want to avoid.

Your posts back then were very much the same as yours now: bad-mouthing the SDA beliefs while still you were getting paid by SDA tithe money.

Not avoidance. Stated multiple times why we reject your argument.

 

[tall73]

Didn't say I was justified in doing so, just that I did...

I do not claim to be doing it all perfectly and as I said in my last post, we are laodicea, we can justify anything. The HolySpirit will earn His 'wage' in convicting and converting me to a complete overcomer...

But the differnce is, I am not giving up on my faith because I don't understand or agree with somethings at the present... how arrogant would it be of me to think I know best. I can trust that the Lord will reveal all things to me as I surrender my prideful spirit to Him.

The difference between what and what? I didn't give up on my faith. My faith was in Christ all along. But I could no longer agree the position I held was in line with the Bible.


And what if He reveals to you that Ellen White is wrong?

 

[tall73]

Your posts back then were very much the same as yours now: bad-mouthing the SDA beliefs while still you were getting paid by SDA tithe money.

Not avoidance. Stated multiple times why we reject your argument.

You just said if she contradicted the Bible on a few points it won't bother you. That is avoidance.

And you can think whatever you want of my time then. I was trying to figure it out, regardless.

Of course, raising the questions to you is probably heresy too. When I decided I couldn't agree I resigned.

 

[OntheDL]

If you think I am satanic, that is fine. Your opinion doesn't bother me anymore. I was a heretic as soon as i stopped believing the IJ according to some.

But the Bible texts don't change because I am the one pointing them out.


Now, do you think Jesus was Chrislike (funny question huh) when He called the pharisees whitewashed tombs?

Was Peter Christlike when he confronted the leaders with killing the author of life?

I am not Peter, and I am not Jesus. But raising issues and pointing to Scriptures is not "coercion"

You are quite right you are not Peter, you are not Jesus.

Peter was with the spirit. Jesus knows the absolute truth. He was the truth. But you are confined by your ability to perceive.

My comment doesn't bother you anymore??? I'm not the one who goes to the church you now go to or the forum you call home and tell them how wrong they are to worship on Sunday and pick on everything for fault and jam it down their throat. Please don't tell me now you are the victim and you are wronged.

 

[tall73]

Didn't say I was justified in doing so, just that I did...

Well then, why wait? Get on board with all her advice.

Meat eating can be the first to go.

 

[tall73]

You are quite right you are not Peter, you are not Jesus.

Peter was with the spirit. Jesus knows the absolute truth. He was the truth. But you are confined by your ability to perceive.

My comment doesn't bother you anymore??? I'm not the one who goes to the church you now go to or the forum you call home and tell them how wrong they are to worship on Sunday and pick on everything for fault and jam it down their throat. Please don't tell me now you are the victim and you are wronged.

Yes, your comment calling me satanic for trying to follow what I believe the Bible is saying doesn't bother me anymore.

There never was a time when you were fine with folks who felt they needed to discuss issues that were bothering them. I was here in this forum early on defending these teachings of the Adventist chuch. And when issues came up, I discussed them where I was already discussing theological issues.


You just pretend there are no issues...but at the same time say IF there are...well they don't matter to you.


Now, I don't recall going to any Adventist church and telling them things.
In fact I have gone to several since I left the church and left those issues alone. I still go with my grandma at times, and make no effort to disrupt anything.

Strangely they even offered to have me teach the Sabbath school one time! lol

I just whispered to the one who offered that would be inadvisable and moved on.

Now as to forums, you are afraid of discussion on forums? They coerce you?

Your church makes their mission to call other church members out of their churches.

Are you not doing your mission?

Do you think Adventists should get all ruffled if folks take exception to their claims?