God is love, Love is not Jealous, God is a Jealous god???

[Mark Quayle]

You don't have any other evidence. You only imagine that you do. You see, if you had access to the omnipotent God of the universe, with whom you'd have a relationship, similar to that between you and your loving parents or closest of friends, then you'd have concrete evidence in your life.

Your reality would be similar to that of the New Testament stories, where blind would see, amputees would regrow limbs, dead would rise to live, etc... But you have none of this. You point to the same reality we all share, where yes, there is universe, logic, math, art, love, etc... BUT, where dead do not rise, amputees do not regrow limbs, Down's syndrome is not curable, and mountains are not movable.

Ha! As far as you can tell, anyway. I'm wondering two things: 1. Why would he care to show you evidence YOU demand? Do you want a heart conversion, or an intellect conversion? 2. Why do you not accept the eye witness reports of just such things? Would it be something along the lines of Thomas' refusing to believe Jesus was raised? (i.e. not because it was unbelievable, but because he would risk no further injury to his already broken heart.)

But you assume this life is for this life.

God is not interested in accumulating believers, but producing a particular chosen people to be one with him in Heaven.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Then I can't class something of which I am not aware as evidence.

Of course.

 

[Bradskii]

Of course.

So, being pedantic (it's a slow wet Sunday afternoon and I'm stuck in covid isolation for another week), I'll need to see the mountain move before I can class it as evidence. Or at least 'hey, wasn't that over there yesterday?'

 

[Mark Quayle]

So, being pedantic (it's a slow wet Sunday afternoon and I'm stuck in covid isolation for another week), I'll need to see the mountain move before I can class it as evidence. Or at least 'hey, wasn't that over there yesterday?'

Of course.

 

[CuriousPagan]

Because God has no true rivals that are equal to Him.

Jealousy is only bad when there are other equivalent beings around. If there are no other true gods, then Yahweh has every right to be jealous.

Thus, the paradox is resolvable. Oprah was wrong.

Why would you be jealous of something that didn't exist? That would be like me getting jealous about my husband's pretty blatant crush on Sailor Moon. (BTW, Does anyone know how to edit your profile?)

 

[BigV]

Ha! As far as you can tell, anyway. I'm wondering two things: 1. Why would he care to show you evidence YOU demand? Do you want a heart conversion, or an intellect conversion? 2. Why do you not accept the eye witness reports of just such things? Would it be something along the lines of Thomas' refusing to believe Jesus was raised? (i.e. not because it was unbelievable, but because he would risk no further injury to his already broken heart.)

‘well, what would it take for you to believe in my miracle working powers? Would I have to show you what YOU demand? As for eyewitness, we are 2,000+ years after the events. Even the Ap Paul needed a special revelation before he’d believe in Jesus. Even though he liven in the 1st century. How much more do we need the revelation living so much later?

Based on my observations, all Gods are imaginary (or acting as imaginary beings) including a Christian God.

 

[BigV]

IF God exists, he can move mountains, yes? Logically then, IF I have evidence God exists, I have evidence he can move mountains.

God could exist without the ability to move mountains.

 

[Mark Quayle]

God could exist without the ability to move mountains.

Only if moving mountains was logically self-contradictory, you know, like the Omnipotent making a rock too big for him to pick up, or like the universe existing by mere chance. God doesn't do logically self-contradictory stuff.

 

[Kylie]

Only if moving mountains was logically self-contradictory, you know, like the Omnipotent making a rock too big for him to pick up, or like the universe existing by mere chance. God doesn't do logically self-contradictory stuff.

Is God bound and/or limited by logic?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Is God bound and/or limited by logic?

Lol, "I'm so glad you brought up this question." (Actually, it does please me you did. Seems nobody asks questions like that when they come to my mind all the time.)

No. If he is bound by anything, it is by himself, or by his own doing, or by his own nature.

That is to say, he is not bound by any fact external to himself; if he is bound by logic, it is because he is logical. Logic derives from him —he is not logical because it is good or logical to be so, but logic is what it is, because he is logical.

The questions of what constrains God are generally human-derived, and not quite valid, as they assume some degree of anthropomorphism.

 

[Kylie]

Lol, "I'm so glad you brought up this question." (Actually, it does please me you did. Seems nobody asks questions like that when they come to my mind all the time.)

No. If he is bound by anything, it is by himself, or by his own doing, or by his own nature.

That is to say, he is not bound by any fact external to himself; if he is bound by logic, it is because he is logical. Logic derives from him —he is not logical because it is good or logical to be so, but logic is what it is, because he is logical.

The questions of what constrains God are generally human-derived, and not quite valid, as they assume some degree of anthropomorphism.

Then why doesn't God make me a believer?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Then why doesn't God make me a believer?

Because it wants to burn you for ever and ever and ever and ever ... for, erm, its glory

Some vessels were made for destruction and you should be proud just to be a part of it.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Then why doesn't God make me a believer?

My guess would be that it isn't time yet, or that he has other uses for you. I'm hoping you can find a way to ask him about it.

 

[Kylie]

My guess would be that it isn't time yet, or that he has other uses for you. I'm hoping you can find a way to ask him about it.

Why can't God make me a believer and still use me for these "other uses" he has for me?

And once again, the arrogant position that I simply haven't asked yet. Why do so many believers have the idea that atheists have never actually tried praying or anything like that? Are you guys incapable of comprehending that what worked for you just doesn't work for everyone?

 

[Mark Quayle]

Why can't God make me a believer and still use me for these "other uses" he has for me?

And once again, the arrogant position that I simply haven't asked yet. Why do so many believers have the idea that atheists have never actually tried praying or anything like that? Are you guys incapable of comprehending that what worked for you just doesn't work for everyone?

He can, as long as the other uses don't have to do with final condemnation, a la Romans 9.

I never did anything to cause God to make me a believer.

I could claim pretty much the same discomfort with Christianity by my own ridiculous inability to obey what I knew God wanted me to do/ not do, discomfort and confoundment, not to mention the old 'fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me' scene, having hope that God would change me because I obviously couldn't, and being shot down again for the thousandth time. God didn't give me the information I needed, but he convinced me in several ways that he is real and relevant, the first being that I found myself unable to totally turn my back on him. Not even nearly able.

In other words, nothing 'worked for' me.

There was a sweet little 9 or 10 year old girl at my church who said during a discussion that most would have considered over her head, "Of course you can't see God! If you could see him, he wouldn't be God!" She was right. And evidence will not convince you to have faith.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Why can't God make me a believer and still use me for these "other uses" he has for me?

And once again, the arrogant position that I simply haven't asked yet. Why do so many believers have the idea that atheists have never actually tried praying or anything like that? Are you guys incapable of comprehending that what worked for you just doesn't work for everyone?

For whatever it is worth, he does use prayer, among other things, to open the eyes. But prayer will not save you. Yet, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

 

[Bradskii]

For whatever it is worth, he does use prayer, among other things, to open the eyes. But prayer will not save you. Yet, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

I think it's a very common situation that if someone really wants to convince themselves that something is true then they'll be able to do it. You find yourself trusting claims that back up that in which you want to believe and dismissing claims that counter it.

And if you've been brought up in a social environment where everyone else appears to believe, then it's actually extremely difficult to look at the evidence with an unbiased view.

 

[Mark Quayle]

I think it's a very common situation that if someone really wants to convince themselves that something is true then they'll be able to do it. You find yourself trusting claims that back up that in which you want to believe and dismissing claims that counter it.

And if you've been brought up in a social environment where everyone else appears to believe, then it's actually extremely difficult to look at the evidence with an unbiased view.

I agree with you there. In fact, there is even a Christian "political correctness" that works well on other believers, to get them to toe the line, instead of reasoning when discussing. "Are you saying that Genesis is NOT LITERAL???"

 

[Kylie]

He can, as long as the other uses don't have to do with final condemnation, a la Romans 9.

I never did anything to cause God to make me a believer.

I could claim pretty much the same discomfort with Christianity by my own ridiculous inability to obey what I knew God wanted me to do/ not do, discomfort and confoundment, not to mention the old 'fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me' scene, having hope that God would change me because I obviously couldn't, and being shot down again for the thousandth time. God didn't give me the information I needed, but he convinced me in several ways that he is real and relevant, the first being that I found myself unable to totally turn my back on him. Not even nearly able.

In other words, nothing 'worked for' me.

There was a sweet little 9 or 10 year old girl at my church who said during a discussion that most would have considered over her head, "Of course you can't see God! If you could see him, he wouldn't be God!" She was right. And evidence will not convince you to have faith.

This sounds like nothing but a justification after the fact...

 

[Kylie]

For whatever it is worth, he does use prayer, among other things, to open the eyes. But prayer will not save you. Yet, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."

There's that arrogant position again. Assuming that I haven't prayed to God for the truth. I did and still got nothing. Apparently I was indeed "cast out," despite your claims that I wouldn't.