God Doesn't Want Me To Know Him

[StanJ]

Is it not God who created and wants to have a relationship with each of us?

Yes, on his conditions.

 

[StanJ]

The point of life is not to discover if God exists. If that was so, there would be detectable evidence. There is none. I am pretty sure that is part of the setup. The point and meaning of life is to discover who He is by His nature, not by a name, identity or an image. To do this, the other stuff must be hidden.He showed us His nature in how Christ lived and taught. So when you gravitate towards love He WILL respond in a way that you can't describe to others. Seriously, ask a person who feels that they have a closeness with God about it. Ask them to explain their "proof". I guarantee you'll scoff at it. It works differently for each of us.
And yes, the notion that those who miss the boat will be tortured forever in boiling flames should speak for itself. Its silly.
I will say that I those who choose evil over love in this life will probably meet their end one day tho.

Paul disagrees with you in Romans 1:19-20

 

[The Cadet]

The Bible tells us that his sheep know his voice so if you're not hearing his voice then obviously you don't know him. So as in anything you don't know what do you do to become familiar or educated about it? Like everything in life, if you're not interested in following the procedures entailed and learning it then you're not really interested in learning it. That you think it's up to God to prove himself to you is rather telling and signifies a very self absorbed perspective. How long do you think your relationship would work if you're that self-absorbed in it?

Have you ever tried to have a relationship with someone who you don't even know exists? I tried that once. Ended up getting catfished. And there, I at least had good reason to believe that the person in question existed. Flip the question around - how do you expect any relationship to work at all when one party is not convinced of the other party's existence?

Like I said, faith... doesn't really do it for me. I don't have faith. I can't convince myself that having faith is a good thing, because it's clear to me that just taking things on faith is functionally indistinguishable from gullibility, and I'm not going to have faith because it robs me of my ability to distinguish truth from fiction. If that is the basis for knowledge of god, then there's clearly a problem. I've been looking for evidence, but the fact of the matter is that given the problem of determining supernatural causation, I don't even know what evidence for God would look like. Hence this thread: if God wanted me to know about him, wouldn't he know exactly how to convince me?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Yes, on his conditions.

Whose conditions?

How do I come to know what these conditions are?

 

[StanJ]

Have you ever tried to have a relationship with someone who you don't even know exists? I tried that once. Ended up getting catfished. And there, I at least had good reason to believe that the person in question existed. Flip the question around - how do you expect any relationship to work at all when one party is not convinced of the other party's existence?

Like I said, faith... doesn't really do it for me. I don't have faith. I can't convince myself that having faith is a good thing, because it's clear to me that just taking things on faith is functionally indistinguishable from gullibility, and I'm not going to have faith because it robs me of my ability to distinguish truth from fiction. If that is the basis for knowledge of god, then there's clearly a problem. I've been looking for evidence, but the fact of the matter is that given the problem of determining supernatural causation, I don't even know what evidence for God would look like. Hence this thread: if God wanted me to know about him, wouldn't he know exactly how to convince me?

No one really starts with faith, they start with the word of God and then move forward from there. The Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Again it's all a matter of whether you really want to or not, and if you really don't want to then there's not much God can really do about it giving you ever free will to do whatever you want. However exercising that free will it does come with responsibilities and just as you can ignore all the signs on the highway and go whatever speed you want to sooner or later you will be held accountable. Life is not much different.

 

[StanJ]

Whose conditions?
How do I come to know what these conditions are?

You can start by reading the New Testament.

 

[The Cadet]

Paul disagrees with you in Romans 1:19-20

As I keep pointing out, Romans 1:20 is perhaps the most self-serving and intellectually dishonest line in the entire bible. "Everyone who disagrees is not just wrong, but also lying." Yeah, no.

 

[StanJ]

As I keep pointing out, Romans 1:20 is perhaps the most self-serving and intellectually dishonest line in the entire bible. "Everyone who disagrees is not just wrong, but also lying." Yeah, no.

You can point out to the cows come home but if you don't believe in God then your opinion about his word means absolutely nothing.

Oh and by the way my post wasn't directed at you, I made it toward a professing Christian

 

[The Cadet]

No one really starts with faith, they start with the word of God and then move forward from there. The Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Again it's all a matter of whether you really want to or not, and if you really don't want to then there's not much God can really do about it giving you ever free will to do whatever you want. However exercising that free will it does come with responsibilities and just as you can ignore all the signs on the highway and go whatever speed you want to sooner or later you will be held accountable. Life is not much different.

Like a great many other atheists, I have read the bible. It was unconvincing, to put it nicely. That's sort of the thing, isn't it? If god is real, I'd very much like to know, but nothing I've seen yet offers any indication to that fact. It's not my disinterest that's holding me back from belief; I've spent a lot of time looking for evidence and come up blank. I even asked for a sign when my faith was faltering and found none.

So it comes back to the topic of the thread. If God wanted me to believe, he'd know exactly what he has to do to convince me. The fact he hasn't done so yet indicates to me that he doesn't care, or doesn't want me to believe. Isn't is a horrific ethical lapse on his part, akin to leaving a child alone near the edge of the tiger pit?

 

[Locutus]

You know, on this board, it is forbidden to say that anyone who self-identifies himself as a christian is instead not a christian.
.

Off topic, but is this true?

If so, I'm very impressed! I've had heated debates with Christians about just who identifies one as a Christian in the human sphere, the self or others. I'm repeatedly informed (often emphatically), that it's NOT a self-identification.

 

[Locutus]

The Bible tells us that his sheep know his voice so if you're not hearing his voice then obviously you don't know him. So as in anything you don't know what do you do to become familiar or educated about it? Like everything in life, if you're not interested in following the procedures entailed and learning it then you're not really interested in learning it. That you think it's up to God to prove himself to you is rather telling and signifies a very self absorbed perspective. How long do you think your relationship would work if you're that self-absorbed in it?

It strikes me that a god who hides itself then demands we find it (before it will bestow any attention upon us) is the self-absorbed one. Any being interested in a two way relationship - as any worthwhile relationship will be - would make some effort in the initial flirtation.

 

[Locutus]

Yes, on his conditions.

Right, so not a two way relationship at all. More master/servant.

 

[Locutus]

No one really starts with faith, they start with the word of God and then move forward from there. The Bible says faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Again it's all a matter of whether you really want to or not, and if you really don't want to then there's not much God can really do about it giving you ever free will to do whatever you want. However exercising that free will it does come with responsibilities and just as you can ignore all the signs on the highway and go whatever speed you want to sooner or later you will be held accountable. Life is not much different.

So it's the desire to believe which is crucial, not so much the individual godhead or book? This would work equally well for any faith, in that case.

Also, there are no signs on the highway to ignore. Or rather, there are a thousand per kilometre.

Finally, free will? Did your god plan everything that would happen? Does your god know what you will do before you do it?

 

[Locutus]

You can point out to the cows come home but if you don't believe in God then your opinion about his word means absolutely nothing.

Does your opinion about other faiths mean anything?

 

[Locutus]

You can start by reading the New Testament.

Actually the proper place to start is at the beginning.

 

[tatteredsoul]

...Right, for about 90 years, tops. Then they die, and while the theist who is tormented by God not caring goes to heaven, the atheist gets to burn in hell. Not exactly a great argument.

No, it is nowhere near a given the theist goes to heaven just for believing. Demons believe and are founded interdimensionally looking for bodies to possess just to get rest. That is why I said being a theist with a problem is worse. You can write this OP as a philosophical matter. It may bother you, but if you are truly atheist it is neither here or there. When you die, your worry isn't hell. So, you can somewhat enjoy your 90 years before you die living for yourself - with marginal worry of what happens afterward.

Many believers don't even pay attention to this like and try to align their existence with Godliness and heaven. Anxiety is a big problem; worry is a big problem; doubt is a big problem; hardship with silence is a big problem. So, the theists 90 years of life is hardly a free pass to heaven. In fact, Christ says that many will call Him, and He will say He doesn't know them. That stress of not knowing whether or not you are actually known by God after all of the other stressors make those 90 theist years very rough for some.

 

[11god11]

As I am not a christian, too, would you like to write something similiar to me, as well?

you seem to be quite anti anything Christian.why are you here if you don't want to find god.i was a hard drug user,heavily tattooed and he saved me .perhaps the devil has blinded you friend.get on your knees say the sinners prayer and do it with every inch of your heart,mind and soul...truly repent and he will save you.do it.

 

[John Davidson]

I have not been presented with convincing evidence that a god exists.

Look at your eye in the mirror.

If that's not enough evidence then there is no helping you.

 

[John Davidson]

God already gave you all the evidence you need. He made the Sun.

 

[John Davidson]

The human body is so complex there is no way that it did not have an intelligent designer.