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If you say the universe is so complex it must have been designed and created but then offer an even more complex being as the explanation, I have to ask where such a being could have come from. What designed and created it?Well as I wasn't addressing your post or you, I have no idea what point you're talking about?
If you say the universe is so complex it must have been designed and created but then offer an even more complex being as the explanation, I have to ask where such a being could have come from. What designed and created it?
Assuming complex things necessarily need to be designed and created, of course.
God always existed and the thing that most people don't realize is that when he created the university also created time. A God that is that powerful to create the universe and to create time just IS. Nobody can know him unless they seek him. It's pretty much like trying to understand astronomy without ever having taken any courses on the matter.
. Nobody can know him unless they seek him.
The Spirit of God is in the binding force of the atom and the life in the cell and is present in the body but the natural mind limits the use of the power of it. The power is redirected through an impurity of mind and degenerates rather than regenerating.
No, I argued that this universe with its complexity demands a creator. That is not the same thing.But you argued complexity demands purposeful creation. Is not your god complex?
But doesn't God know that a demand of faith is simply unconvincing to me, and that no amount of appealing to what I am fairly convinced is essentially the same thing as gullibility will convince me to believe something? I'm essentially stuck - I'm not going to have faith, faith alone is never going to be convincing to me. I need something else. But more to the point, God knows this. He knows exactly what I need, even if I don't! So the fact that I don't believe indicates very clearly that God doesn't care. And if there is a literal hell, he clearly has no problems with me going there.
I don't believe in his gift of salvation. That's the problem. If God wanted me to believe, he'd know exactly what to do to get me to believe. He hasn't done this, so I'm left wondering whether this is because God doesn't care that I'm going to go to hell, or because he doesn't exist.
...But he still isn't willing to give me what I need to change my mind and make me believe in him? And is willing to send me to be tortured forever for not believing in him? That's a bizarre definition of love.
It's an incredibly manipulative thing to imply that God does not want you to know Him because God is not submitting Himself to you and your self-centered, prideful demands.
No, I argued that this universe with its complexity demands a creator. That is not the same thing.
I, me, my. Apparently you seek to start a new religion wherein God worships you.
Yes, we're the prideful and self-centred ones. Always trying to avoid falsehoods and accepting our own mortality and insignificance.
Not so those humble souls who merely require a personal relationship with creator of the universe, and are too special to die.
How does one 'seek him', please?
I dove into the bible (and church) with a clean palate, full neutral. I did not presuppose the god existed, nor did I presuppose the god didn't exist. I left myself entirely open to either possibility. Do you think that's a bad or dishonest approach to your god?
Also, if you do think it's the wrong approach, why do you do it with other religions?
"You're all going to die at some point, and stay dead. Just like a houseplant" isn't a very catchy jingle. I don't think he'll recruit many.
It's this type of flippancy that comes across quite obviously despite you not admitting it. You may think this is a game but in reality those who actually want you to understand like myself, don't look at it as a game, they look at it as the reality it is, and your future as an eternal living being is in jeopardy NOW, and unless you wake up to that reality the one you do wake up to will be so horrific it will pale in comparison to this life you now find yourself painfully walking through.Thanks, but that gives me zero information on how to find/identify it. Could you give me very specific details on what it is/where it is/what it's made of/how you identify it, etc? I wouldn't want to miss it, or mistake it for something else.
"You're all going to die at some point, and stay dead. Just like a houseplant" isn't a very catchy jingle. I don't think he'll recruit many.
You say "when" he created the universe, he created time? How is there a "when" before time? Do you see the logical contradiction you've created in trying to explain his existence?God always existed and the thing that most people don't realize is that when he created the university also created time.
I could just as easily say the universe, just is. It would mean virtually the same exact thing except the universe doesn't concern itself with who anyone sleeps with and doesn't demand anything of us or condemn anyone.A God that is that powerful to create the universe and to create time just IS.
And yet, he's the one who created and wishes to have a relationship with us. He created us for his purposes and yet hides himself and makes us go looking into the dark to find him and if you don't find him, there's something wrong with you and in fact, you deserve to be punished.Nobody can know him unless they seek him. It's pretty much like trying to understand astronomy without ever having taken any courses on the matter.
Why would God put the future of someone else's eternal fate in your (or any other human's) hands?It's this type of flippancy that comes across quite obviously despite you not admitting it. You may think this is a game but in reality those who actually want you to understand like myself, don't look at it as a game, they look at it as the reality it is, and your future as an eternal living being is in jeopardy NOW, and unless you wake up to that reality the one you do wake up to will be so horrific it will pale in comparison to this life you now find yourself painfully walking through.
Thanks, but that gives me zero information on how to find/identify it. Could you give me very specific details on what it is/where it is/what it's made of/how you identify it, etc? I wouldn't want to miss it, or mistake it for something else.
Ok. A Creator with its complex psychology necessarily needs an explanation as well. How do you explain that?No, I argued that this universe with its complexity demands a creator. That is not the same thing.
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