God Disqualified Christians From Participating in the Mosaic Law Covenant

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Basically the same argument @bob Ryan used. Now that you have given me a secular excuse for not following the Law of Moses, can you give me a biblical reason for not following the Law?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The secular excuse is all I need. If I am going to be put to death or imprisoned for the rest of my life for killing someone who refuses to keep the Sabbath I need no further excuse. If you don't want to keep the Sabbath then don't observe it and be thankful we are living in the USA. If we lived in a theocracy you would have been already put to death, IF God required us all to keep the Sabbath. Either that, or you would convert to save your life. But I will not follow God's Law if he tells me to kill someone. That is something he will have to take up with me on Judgment Day. I would not have sacrificed my own son, even if God told me to. I admit I am not perfect. I would not have dashed children against the stones or used a sword to kill little children. I don't live by every word of God. If you really believe man should keep every word of God, why AREN'T you living by every word of God? Why don't you practice what you preach? Why don't you inform us ignorant people WHY you don't live by every word of God? If you don't then you can't sit in judgement of those who also don't live by every word of God. Tell me Doran, what's your excuse for not living by every word of God?
'

Again...aren't we supposed to live by every word that proceeds out of God's mouth?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
What do you think? If God told you to kill your child would you do it? If not, why not? You are judging people that observe the seventh day Sabbath for not following "every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God" and you are even using it as an argument against those who do observe the Sabbath but yet you yourself do not live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. So you cannot sit in judgement of the Sabbath Keepers that don't. Again, do you live by every word of God and if not, WHY NOT?

I'm still waiting to hear those words of God whereby he abolished the death penalty portion of the sabbath law. I mean where was God's insight into this NC dispensation? He didn't forsee the things you just described above?

SABER TRUTH TIGER
You are waiting for God to personally come down from heaven and tell you that the death penalty has been abolished? The death penalty for Sabbath breaking has not been abolished. That is why we live in the age of grace. If you try to earn your salvation by keeping the Sabbath and other Old Testament Laws you will be judged by the Law. Even at the day of Judgement. My question to you is simple, "Why aren't YOU keeping every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God?" Pot-Kettle-Black. You claim the NC abolished the OC. So again, WHY do you believe that if you aren't living by EVERY word that proceeds out of the mouth of God? If you don't, then you have no right to ask those who choose to observe the Sabbath why they don't. Remember, POT-KETTLE-BLACK. I am asking you again, how come you don't live by every word that comes out of the mouth of God? When you can give me a good reason why you don't live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, then maybe I will entertain the thought to reply to you further. But until then, you are a hypocrite for condemning those of us who keep the Sabbath for not killing those who don't, all the while you are not living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Seventh Day of Creation:

NKJ Genesis 2:1-4 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. 4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens

• God's blessing of the seventh day of creation makes no reference to any command by God.
• There's no command given by God to any of His creation to set this day aside for special observance.
• For approximately 2,500 years there is nothing in Scripture saying anyone observed the seventh day rest.
• Approximately 2,500 years after creation, God first commanded a specific people, Moses and Israel, to remember this seventh day creation event by resting from work on the seventh day of the week.
• Approximately 40 years later Moses commanded Israel to use the seventh day to remember God freed them from Egypt.

Any reference to God commanding anyone to the observance of the seventh day before the time of Moses, 2,500 years after creation, is an argument from silence and cannot be relied upon.

God didn't make reference for the commandment to thou shalt not murder, but it was a sin for Cain to do so and where there is no law there is no transgression Rom 4:15 so obviously they all had God's law. Scripture clearly tells us the Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 Genesis 2:1-3 - Jesus said it was made for man Mark 2:27. Man was created on the sixth day made in the image of God and was created before the first Sabbath. Gen 1:26 Gen 2:1-3 I find it hard to believe that after God just created Adam and Eve that they rebelled against God and told Him we don't want to spend time with you on the Sabbath, but instead we are going to do our own thing.

 

[GDL]

I don't understand?

I agree.

Hebrews 8:10, Jer 31:33, Heb 10:16 is the New Covenant. I think I do understand what took place in Exodus, can always learn more, I'm open to it, but my faith is established in God's Ten Commandments and others teaching we can break the least of these commandments despite the warning of Jesus Mat 5:19-30 is not going to shake my faith.

Thank you for the admission.

Do you agree with these next 3 statements?

• So far you have not identified what the Old Covenant is, and you cannot do so.
• The only Covenant from the Exodus era you have identified is the one you refer to as the Ten Commandments.
• You do not believe the Ten Commandments Covenant is the Old Covenant.

 

[Aaron112]

I find it hard to believe that after God just created Adam and Eve that they rebelled against God

There are even more difficult things for you to believe if continuing in daily experience with Yeshua HaMashiach. The Presence of Yahweh Elohim. Holiness / Set Apart .
Having the thoughts of Jesus. And so much more.
Yet see that the whole world is in rebellion against Jesus. They will not be pardoned unless the Creator Draws them to Himself, they repent, they give up sinning, and they are , in the way The Creator Accomplishes Only, born again, borne by Him, daily.

The earthy rebellion of Adam and Chavah (Eve) is a simple thing to believe
compared to anything spiritual;
If the earthly things are not understood, how will anything spiritual then be understood - Scripture says, Jesus Says Somewhere, it cannot be done ....

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree.

So that means Jesus doesn't understand either because I believe exactly what He said. You saying I don't understand when I believe exactly what Jesus said without alterations and you want to alter His Word to make your idea fit means you seem to be the one who doesn't understand.

Thank you for the admission.

Do you agree with these next 3 statements?

• So far you have not identified what the Old Covenant is, and you cannot do so.

Just because you don't believe God wrote the same laws from tables of stone, to tables of the heart and not all new ones, despite no scripture saying this, is something you need to work out, not me. God said He writes His laws in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10, Jer 31:33 and the covenant is based on better promises, not better laws. Heb 8:6

• The only Covenant from the Exodus era you have identified is the one you refer to as the Ten Commandments.

Not true again. The Ten Commandments is not just from the Exodus era, it comes from heaven Rev 11:19 and it is God's eternal laws. There is also the law of Moses, which is a separate law from the Ten Commandments as shown by God by placing all of the law of Moses on the outside of the ark as already shown through scripture on multiple occasions.

• You do not believe the Ten Commandments Covenant is the Old Covenant.

I believe the Ten Commandments are eternal as stated more than once. They are all over the OC and all over the NC and are in God's heavenly Temple, what defines sin Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 and what we will be judged by James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 which is why its under the mercy seat of Jesus in the Most Holy of His Temple what the earthy temple was modeled after. Heb 8:1-5

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There are even more difficult things for you to believe if continuing in daily experience with Yeshua HaMashiach. The Presence of Yahweh Elohim. Holiness / Set Apart .
Having the thoughts of Jesus. And so much more.
Yet see that the whole world is in rebellion against Jesus. They will not be pardoned unless the Creator Draws them to Himself, they repent, they give up sinning, and they are , in the way The Creator Accomplishes Only, born again, borne by Him, daily.

The earthy rebellion of Adam and Chavah (Eve) is a simple thing to believe
compared to anything spiritual;
If the earthly things are not understood, how will anything spiritual then be understood - Scripture says, Jesus Says Somewhere, it cannot be done ....

So you think Adam and Eve rebelled against the Sabbath and spending time with God after He just created them? I don't. They eventually rebelled against Him, which is how man was separated from God, but soon His faithful followers will be reconciled Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

 

[Aaron112]

biblehub.com › john › 3-12.htm

John 3:12 If I have told you about earthly things and you do not ...​

King James Bible If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

biblehub.com › john › 3-12.htm

John 3:12 If I have told you about earthly things and you do not ...​

King James Bible If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

This does not answer the question, do you think Adam and Eve rebelled against God on the first day they were with God? You micro quoted me, so I am trying to understand if you agree with me, that Adam and Eve did not rebel against God on the first Sabbath in God's presence, or they rebelled right from day one and didn't want to spend the Sabbath, Jesus said was made for them (and us) Mark 2:27 by spending time with God on the very first Sabbath, but instead did their own thing. Please clarify because what you are quoting in John 3:12 is not answering the question. Thanks.

 

[GDL]

God didn't make reference for the commandment to thou shalt not murder, but it was a sin for Cain to do so and where there is no law there is no transgression Rev 4:15 so obviously they all had God's law

Correct. There is no specific detail in Genesis about God's commandments other than what we see written.

There is indication that men knew some of God's will, but the detail is sparse at best. God did not capitally punish Cain for murder. Then God proclaims a judgment for anyone who kills Cain. So, it seems obvious that whatever men knew or cared of God's will, they did not have Law as was later given to Moses.

Ancient law codes written by men precede Moses by 1,000 years or so and even before Abraham. Why were men writing law? This goes into some of the natural law theories and theories of what God had told men from Adam to Noah.

The bottom line is we only have what we have, and the rest is speculation from silence. I agree with those who say building doctrines from silence is not good practice.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Correct. There is no specific detail in Genesis about God's commandments other than what we see written.

There is indication that men knew some of God's will, but the detail is sparse at best. God did not capitally punish Cain for murder. Then God proclaims a judgment for anyone who kills Cain. So, it seems obvious that whatever men knew or cared of God's will, they did not have Law as was later given to Moses.

Ancient law codes written by men precede Moses by 1,000 years or so and even before Abraham. Why were men writing law? This goes into some of the natural law theories and theories of what God had told men from Adam to Noah.

The bottom line is we only have what we have, and the rest is speculation from silence. I agree with those who say building doctrines from silence is not good practice.

Cain knew it was sin and where there is no law there is no sin Rom 4:15 therefore he had the law. How God chooses to punish is up to God Abraham kept the commandments of God, so obviously knew God’s law Gen 26:5.

The speculation is not from silence, scripture clearly tells us, maybe not in one neat package, but thats why we are to diligently read and seek the Lord and pray for the Holy Spirit to guide us in understanding. We serve a fair just God. He is not going to punish one for being disobedient without explaining what we are to be obedient to. God’s law started in heaven Rev 11:19 Heb 8:1-5 because Lucifer sinned 1 John 3:8 which means he broke God’s law. Lucifer was a covering cherub Eze 28:16 meaning he was watching over the ark of the covenant 1 King 8:7 , which we are told holds the Ten Commandments. Exo 40:20 He rebelled against God’s law too, which is what separated him and his angles from heaven. Man was separated from God by listening to the “other spirit” and sinning, meaning they broke God’s law and when Jesus comes He will reconcile those who overcome through faith Rev 22:14 Rev 14:12 Romans 3:31

 

[GDL]

You also cannot quote me ever saying #8

Post #766. You had your chances, actually several of them. You can say any time that this is not what you believe and clarify what you do believe.

This actually fits with the way I read your denomination. The logic paraphrased as I understand it is simple:

1. The remnant church of God must keep the 4th commandment of God to rest on the 7th day.
2. We keep the 4th commandment of God to rest on the 7th day.
3. We are the remnant church of God.

Simple logic when viewed from the negative says those who do not keep the 4th commandment to rest on the 7th day are not the remnant church.

This is something you apparently have been coached not to admit. But the reasoning is simple, and you have played your part into visible legalism.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Post #766. You had your chances, actually several of them. You can say any time that this is not what you believe and clarify what you do believe.

This actually fits with the way I read your denomination. The logic paraphrased as I understand it is simple:

1. The remnant church of God must keep the 4th commandment of God to rest on the 7th day.
2. We keep the 4th commandment of God to rest on the 7th day.
3. We are the remnant church of God.

Simple logic when viewed from the negative says those who do not keep the 4th commandment to rest on the 7th day are not the remnant church.

This is something you apparently have been coached not to admit. But the reasoning is simple, and you have played your part into visible legalism.

Again, you keep plucking the 4th commandment out of God’s unit of Ten, when God doesn’t. Exo 31:18 Exo 34:28 We are not saved by keeping the law, which means we can save ourselves and we can’t. We are saved by God’s grace, it is a gift though faith. We should keep the commandments of God, not to be saved, but because Jesus changes us from the inside out and we want to obey Him through love and faith. 1 John 5:3, Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Again, you keep plucking the 4th commandment out of God’s unit of Ten, when God doesn’t. Exo 31:18 Exo 34:28 We are not saved by keeping the law, which means we can save ourselves and we can’t. We are saved by God’s grace, it is a gift though faith. We should keep the commandments of God, not to be saved, but because Jesus changes us from the inside out and we want to obey Him through love and faith. 1 John 5:3, Romans 3:31 Rev 14:12

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I am not a SDA but I too don't believe you can earn your salvation by observing the seventh day Sabbath. We are saved by grace, and that through faith, it is a gift of God, lest any man can boast. I don't observe the Sabbath because I must, but I want to be pleasing to Yahweh. I do not think those that choose to observe Sunday as their day as a rest have the right to do that. Paul tells us that one man esteems one day above the other, and the other man esteems all days alike, let every man be persuaded in his own mind. That cuts both ways. If we esteem one day above the others, we are not to judge the others for esteeming all days the same. They too, are not to judge us for esteeming one day above the others. Paul said to judge no man in regard to the sabbaths or new moons. If they prefer to keep Sunday over Saturday, they have the right to do that. God has gifted man with free will.

Colossians 2:16 (1995 NASB)
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—

Romans 14:5 (1995 NASB)
One person [a]regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I am not a SDA but I too don't believe you can earn your salvation by observing the seventh day Sabbath. We are saved by grace, and that through faith, it is a gift of God, lest any man can boast. I don't observe the Sabbath because I must, but I want to be pleasing to Yahweh. I do not think those that choose to observe Sunday as their day as a rest have the right to do that. Paul tells us that one man esteems one day above the other, and the other man esteems all days alike, let every man be persuaded in his own mind. That cuts both ways. If we esteem one day above the others, we are not to judge the others for esteeming all days the same. They too, are not to judge us for esteeming one day above the others. Paul said to judge no man in regard to the sabbaths or new moons. If they prefer to keep Sunday over Saturday, they have the right to do that. God has gifted man with free will.

God only blessed the Sabbath and it is a commandment of God, just like thou shalt not covet, and do not vain God’s name. You do not need to be SDA to keep the Sabbath, although we are the largest Sabbath-keeping denomination.

There is more than one sabbath in the scripture and Paul does not have authority to undo one of God’s commandments that God blessed. Col 2:14KJV gives the context to Colossians 2:16 and it is referring to the annual sabbaths, that has to do with food and drink and offerings which all pointed to Jesus who became our Sacrificial Lamb 1 Cor 5:7 . So instead of sacrificing animals in the New Covenant, we can go directly to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. Sin is still the transgression of God’s law, 1 John 3:4 which Paul points right to the Ten to define sin Rom 7:7

That said, keeping the Sabbath because you are blessed and love Jesus is the best reason to keep it. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Doran]

When God created the Sabbath Gen 2:1-3, Jesus said was made for man Mark 2:27, there was no Jew or Gentile, just man.

Which is why God makes it clear the Sabbath is for everyone Isa 56. It's up to us to claim the blessing He promises when we hallow His Sabbath day.

Same ol' willful misinterpretation of Mark 2. Taken totally out of context.

Does Mark 2:27-28 Command Christians to Observe the Weekly Sabbath? - GCI Archive

Visit gci.org and browse Grace Communion International's extensive library of articles on God, the Bible, faith, and the Christian Life.

archive.gci.org

And besides the Jews knew full well to whom the Law and the sabbath was given from their own scriptures!

Ex 16:28-30
28 Then the LORD said to Moses, "How long will YOU refuse to keep my commands and my instructions? 29 Bear in mind that the LORD has given YOU the Sabbath; that is why on the sixth day he gives YOU bread for two days. Everyone is to stay where he is on the seventh day; no one is to go out." 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.
NIV

Ex 19:7-8
7 So Moses went back and summoned the elders of the people and set before them all the words the LORD had commanded him to speak. 8 The people all responded together, "We will do everything the LORD has said." So Moses brought their answer back to the LORD.
NIV


Ex 31:12-13
12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'YOU must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and YOU for the generations to come, so YOU may know that I am the LORD, who makes YOU holy.
NIV

Lev 26:46
46 These are the decrees, the laws and the regulations that the LORD established on Mount Sinai between himself and the Israelites through Moses.
NIV

Deut 4:8
8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before YOU today?
NIV

Deut 5:12-15
12 "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded YOU. 13 Six days YOU shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it YOU shall not do any work, neither YOU, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as YOU do. 15 Remember that YOU were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought YOU out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded YOU to observe the Sabbath day.
NIV

Deut 6:20-25
20 In the future, when your son asks you, "What is the meaning of the stipulations, decrees and laws the LORD our God has commanded YOU?" 21 tell him: "WE were slaves of Pharaoh in Egypt, but the LORD brought US out of Egypt with a mighty hand. 22 Before our eyes the LORD sent miraculous signs and wonders — great and terrible — upon Egypt and Pharaoh and his whole household. 23 But he brought US out from there to bring US in and give US the land that he promised on oath to our forefathers. 24 The LORD commanded US to obey all these decrees and to fear the LORD our God, so that WE might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. 25 And if WE are careful to obey all this law before the LORD our God, as he has commanded US, that will be OUR righteousness."
NIV

Deut 8:11
11 Be careful that YOU do not forget the LORD your God, failing to observe his commands, his laws and his decrees that I am giving YOU this day.
NIV

Deut 9:10
10 The LORD gave me two stone tablets inscribed by the finger of God. On them were all the commandments the LORD proclaimed to YOU on the mountain out of the fire, on the day of the assembly.
NIV


Deut 18:14
14 The nations YOU will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for YOU, the LORD your God has not permitted YOU to do so.
NIV

Deut 29:1
29:1 These are the terms of the covenant the LORD commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with THEM at Horeb.
NIV

Deut 31:16
16 And the LORD said to Moses: "You are going to rest with your fathers, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering. THEY will forsake me and break the covenant I made with THEM.
NIV

Est 3:8
8 Then Haman said to King Xerxes, "There is a certain people dispersed and scattered among the peoples in all the provinces of your kingdom whose customs are different from those of all other people and who do not obey the king's laws; it is not in the king's best interest to tolerate them.
NIV

Ps 78:5-6
5 He decreed statutes for Jacob
and established the law in Israel,
which he commanded our forefathers
to teach their children,
6 so the next generation would know them,
even the children yet to be born,
and they in turn would tell their children.
NIV

Ps 99:7
7 He spoke to them from the pillar of cloud;
they kept his statutes and the decrees he gave them.
NIV

Ps 105:42-45
42 For he remembered his holy promise
given to his servant Abraham.
43 He brought out his people with rejoicing,
his chosen ones with shouts of joy;
44 he gave THEM the lands of the nations,
and THEY fell heir to what others had toiled for —
45 that THEY might keep his precepts
and observe his laws .

Praise the LORD.
NIV

Ps 147:19-20
19 He has revealed his word to Jacob,
his laws and decrees to Israel.
20 He has done this for no other nation ;
they do not know his laws.

Praise the LORD.
NIV

2 Sam 7:22-23
22 "How great you are, O Sovereign LORD! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as WE have heard with our own ears. 23 And who is like your people Israel — the one nation on earth that God went out to redeem as a people for himself, and to make a name for himself, and to perform great and awesome wonders by driving out nations and their gods from before YOUR people, whom you redeemed from Egypt?
NIV

Neh 9:14
14 You made known to THEM your holy Sabbath and gave THEM commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses.
NIV

Ezek 20:10-12
10 Therefore I led THEM out of Egypt and brought THEM into the desert. 11 I gave THEM my decrees and made known to THEM my laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. 12 Also I gave THEM my Sabbaths as a sign between US, so THEY would know that I the LORD made THEM holy.
NIV

Mal 4:4
4 "Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb FOR ALL ISRAEL.
NIV

Acts 7:53
53 you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it."
NIV

But for the New Covenant people of God who have received Messianic Law, it is written:

Rom 14:1-8
14:1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8 If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
NIV

Gal 4:9-11
9 But now that you know God — or rather are known by God — how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
NIV

Col 2:16-17
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
NIV

 

[WilliamK76]

The Spirit of Christ does not lead us back unto Mt. Sinai which gendereth to bondage.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,


Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:


Gal 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:


Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake


Exo 19:11 And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.


Exo 19:12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:


Exo 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.


Israel after being baptized into Christ through the Red Sea, having been born of Faith, saved and delivered by God without any knowledge of the law, rashly excepts the covenant of the law not long after having no idea what the fatal consequences of that choice would truly mean in the process of time.

Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:


Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.


Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

They who have no knowledge between good and evil shall enter into the promised land, and possess it.


Deu 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,


Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.


Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.


Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.


Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.


Mat 17:8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

 

[Doran]

The Seventh Day of Creation:

NKJ Genesis 2:1-4 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. 4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens

• God's blessing of the seventh day of creation makes no reference to any command by God.
• There's no command given by God to any of His creation to set this day aside for special observance.
• For approximately 2,500 years there is nothing in Scripture saying anyone observed the seventh day rest.
• Approximately 2,500 years after creation, God first commanded a specific people, Moses and Israel, to remember this seventh day creation event by resting from work on the seventh day of the week.
• Approximately 40 years later Moses commanded Israel to use the seventh day to remember God freed them from Egypt.

Any reference to God commanding anyone to the observance of the seventh day before the time of Moses, 2,500 years after creation, is an argument from silence and cannot be relied upon.

I don't know how many times I have told them that the above Genesis passage is NOT prescriptive, but descriptive! Either sabbatarians don't know the difference or they don't want to know.

 

[Saber Truth Tiger]

Now, you're flying your true colors. Colors of pride and rebellion and stubbornness. Don't you know that in this NC age, we are duty-bound to obey apostolic authority because that authority is sanctioned by Christ himself (Ma. 10:40; Jn 17:20–21; Acts 2:42; Eph. 2:20; 6:1-3; 1 Thes 2:6, 2Thes 3:14; Rom. 13:9; 16:17-19, etc.)!? When you categorically reject apostolic authority, you ultimately reject the Origin of that Authority, which is Christ himself, since all the NT scriptures originate with Christ (Jn 16:12-14).

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Doran, one is saved by grace, and that by faith. It is the gift of God, lest any man should boast. We are under the Law of Grace, and cannot earn our salvation by observing the Old Covenant or the New Covenant. Are you saying that in order to be saved, one must obey apostolic authority? If a Christian accepts Jesus Christ as his personal Savior and is saved by grace, is he/she required to obey the New Testament Law (apostolic authority) to enter into heaven? Are works required for salvation if you are a Christian? James seems to think so. I just want to see what you think.

JAMES 2:
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

By the way, do you live by every word of God? You take Sabbath keepers to task for not living by every word of God. Do you live by every word of God?

 

[WilliamK76]

Who said Jesus didn't keep the Sabbath in the wilderness. Jesus said He kept all of the commandments, which includes the Sabbath.

Not in the eye’s of the Pharisees who were the “professionals of the law”. Their whole psychotic fixation with God throughout the Gospels was about “the sabbaths”, and that there was no way in their minds some breaker of the sabbath could possibly be the Messiah. And that His actions according to their interpretation of the law made Him worthy of death. The moral of the story, their psychotic obsession with the law made them blind to the very God they thought they knew and worshipped.

 

[GDL]

SABER TRUTH TIGER
I am not a SDA but I too don't believe you can earn your salvation by observing the seventh day Sabbath. We are saved by grace, and that through faith, it is a gift of God, lest any man can boast. I don't observe the Sabbath because I must, but I want to be pleasing to Yahweh. I do not think those that choose to observe Sunday as their day as a rest have the right to do that. Paul tells us that one man esteems one day above the other, and the other man esteems all days alike, let every man be persuaded in his own mind. That cuts both ways. If we esteem one day above the others, we are not to judge the others for esteeming all days the same. They too, are not to judge us for esteeming one day above the others. Paul said to judge no man in regard to the sabbaths or new moons. If they prefer to keep Sunday over Saturday, they have the right to do that. God has gifted man with free will.

Colossians 2:16 (1995 NASB)
Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—

Romans 14:5 (1995 NASB)
One person [a]regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

As I read you, you say you don't think the Sunday group has a right to choose Sunday but you won't judge them for it, correct?

And you want to please YHWH and think He desires Saturday still, so you observe Saturday, and you don't want to be judged for this, correct?

Do you think the Lord is judging or will judge Sunday observers since you say they don't have a right to choose Sunday?

I think I can see your answer, but I'm going to ask anyway so you can say it yourself: Do you think those who do not agree with Saturday being required anymore, are saved (assuming they believe Jesus is the Christ of course)?