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God Did not Create Sin

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Edgar44

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God did not create evil. And evil is not the absence of good.

There is no evil. What I mean by that, is God created everything good. But it is how mankind uses what God created, determines good and evil.

Example, a knife in the hands of a surgeon is good. A knife in the hands of a child is 'not' good.

It is man's attitude to God's creation, which determines good from evil. It is mankind which creates evil. Because mankind although 'created' to be perfect, did not become perfect.

God gave mankind the responsibility of completing 'our own' perfection. God shared His completion of this universe, with HIs children, (a Parental act.).

In other words, God's creation has yet to be completed, this is man's responsibility.

Man is the highest creation of God, (His children). God is waiting for mankind to complete His creation. We cannot take dominion of a perfect world until we first become perfect. By 'Perfect', I am referring to our level of 'maturity of love'.

GOD IS LOVE
 
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OzSpen

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Why don't you read all of the citations from John Calvin's writings in this article, 'Arminian Complaint: Calvinism makes God the author of sin'?

How about this one from Calvin and not from this link:
Let us imagine, for example, a merchant who, entering a wood with a company of faithful men, unwisely wanders away from his companions, and in his wandering comes upon a robber’s den, falls among thieves, and is slain. His death was not only foreseen by God’s eye, but also determined by his decree. For it is not said that he foresaw how long the life of each man would extend, but that he determined and fixed the bounds that men cannot pass [Job14:5]. Yet as far as the capacity of our mind is concerned, all things therein seem fortuitous. What will a Christian think at this point? Just this: whatever happened in a death of this sort he will regard as fortuitous by nature, as it is; yet he will not doubt that God’s providence exercised authority over fortune in directing its end (Calvin 1960:208-209, or I.16.9).
​
What do you think are the implications of this kind of statement?

Oz

Works consulted
Calvin, J1960.Institutes of the Christian religion (in 2 vols). Tr by F L Battles, J T McNeill (ed). Philadelphia: The Westminster Press.


 
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Edgar44

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I have no interest in Calvin, why would I bother to read him?

I believe the reformation was a God inspired movement, but not the end-all, of mankind's knowledge of God.

God told Adam to become fruitful. God didn't already make Adam 'fruitful', Adam had to do this himself.

God told us that we must be perfect as is our heavenly Father is perfect. God didn't already make us perfect, this is something man has to do.

God told us to have faith, God doesn't do our faith for us.

God is waiting, for us. He gave US responsibility for our own growth to perfection.

God is a Parent, and like all 'Good' parents (Cause we were made in HIS image), want to share their-all with their children.

God allowed His children to share in His own creation, because He loves us and because He is our Parent.

If you prefer Calvin's views that's fine, I prefer my God to be a loving sharing Parent, waiting for His children to grow up and accept responsibility for our own actions.

God created mankind, then afterwards was sorry that He had created mankind. How could this be? because He gave us responsibility which we failed to take. (The fall of man).

God IS love.
 
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Edgar,

It was you who stated, 'God did not create evil. And evil is not the absence of good'.

When I gave the link to Calvin and Calvinism, I was providing evidence that there are some who do believe that God created (or is the author of) evil.

But you don't want to receive that evidence.

That's OK, but I was providing evidence to counter what you said.

Oz


 
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Edgar44

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Thank you.

Another persons viewpoint, cannot be considered as 'evidence', it is only their viewpoint.

I already know there are many who believe that God created evil, they believe it because it ties in with their doctrines.

I was presenting my own views, coupled with material of what we know of God, to show that God cannot be the Author of sin.

If God tells us to 'be fruitful', and we do not listen, can we put the blame on God? No, we cannot.

If the Bible stated "God created evil", that, I would consider as evidence, and that alone, not some person's viewpoint who lived a few hundred years ago, no matter how 'famous' that person might historical be.

But I thank you for your response.

God is LOVE.
 
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Edgar44

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The Bible says that the first man and woman (Adam and Eve) ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and that this was the original sin. To understand this we have to understand the meaning of this "fruit", and the meaning of the tree which produced it - the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil

1. Is the "fruit" of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil literal or symbolic?

Let's examine some evidence concerning the nature of the fruit.

Would a loving parent (God), deliberately place a desirable fruit, which would cause the death of his beloved children,in front of them, and merely tell them not to eat it? Even fallen human parents would not do this. Therefore, the fruit cannot be literal.

Mathew 15:11: "Not that which goes into the mouth defiles a man, but
that which comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man. "
From this verse we can understand that the "fruit" which defiled man, was not material food.

The sin committed by Adam and Eve was passed on to their children and continues to be inherited today. What one inherits comes through blood lineage. Food eaten by man cannot be inherited. Therefore, it cannot be a literal, edible fruit.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times][FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Man was created to live by eating food. Man's instinct [/FONT][/FONT]is for life. Man would not eat a poisonous food. Even cattle do not eat the poisonous grasses that grow in their areas, because their natural instinct is for life. Therefore, the fruit cannot be a literal fruit.

Many people believe that God put the fruit in the Garden to test Adam and Eve. But they cannot explain the following things: God would be very unjust to impose death on His innocent
children for failing a test.

Why should an all-knowing God, who already knows His children,
test them? Even if God had tested them, He would not impose the punishment of death on His beloved children for their mere disobedience. Even fallen parents would not test their children and give death as a punishment.

From this we can understand that the placement of the fruit in the Garden could not have been a test.

God imposed a punishment of death for eating a "fruit". Therefore, this "fruit", must have symbolized something very important to God and man; it was not just a simple fruit.

Man's desire is for life, not death. Man will always choose life over death.
What desire of man could be stronger than his desire for life? Could man's desire for food be even stronger than his desire for life?
From this evidence we can understand that the "fruit" was not a literal fruit, but was a symbol of something else.

To know the meaning of the fruit, we have to know the meaning of the tree which produced it. Symbolic fruit does not grow on literal trees. Therefore, the two trees also must be symbolic. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is mentioned only
one time in the Bible (Gen. 2:9), but reference to the tree of life is found in many places. So, lets look at the meaning of the tree of life.

Proverbs. 13:12 "Hope deferred makes the heart sick; but a desire fulfilled is a tree of life. "
The desire of men in the Old Testament Age was to reach the tree of life,

Rev. 22:14"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may
have the right to the tree of life. "

The desire of the New Testament Age men also was to come to the tree of life.
Why was the desire of the people of the Old and New Testament Age to reach the tree of life?

Gen. 3:24"God drove out man and at the east of Eden, he placed
the cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned everyway, to guard the way to the tree of life. "

From this, we understand that the desire of Adam before the fall was to attain the tree of life. But through the fall, he could not come to the tree of life, and could not fulfil his desire. Because of this, the desire of Adam's descendants, the people of the Old and New Testament Ages, was to reach the tree of life.

What does the tree of life symbolize?

God's first blessing to man was that of individual perfection ("Be fruitful"). In Gen. 2:17, God said to Adam and Eve, "If you eat of it you shall die. " This means "if you don't eat of it, you shall live. "

At this time, they were still in an unstable state ... they could go either way. So, Adam and Eve were not yet perfect or spiritually mature. They were in a period of growing to perfection.

Then, what would have been the desire of Adam at this stage? It must have been to reach perfect manhood. Therefore, the tree of life is the symbol of a perfected man, or perfected Adam.

In the Bible, a tree is often used as the symbol of man :

Prov. 11:30 "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life. "
John 15:5" I am the vine, you are the branches. "
Isaiah 5:7 "For the vineyard of the Lord is the House of Israel, and the men of Judah are his pleasant planting ... "
Rom. 11:17"If some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the richness of the olive tree, ...
Therefore, the tree of life is the symbol of a man of life, perfected man, or perfected Adam.

Another explanation of the tree of life :

Rev. 22:13 - "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. " Jesus said, "I am the first and the last." Therefore, the first tree of life is the same as the last tree of life. The first tree of life in the Bible is in the
first book of the Bible, Gen. 2:9. The last tree of life in the Bible is in the last book of the Bible, Rev. 22:14. The last tree of life is understood as a symbol of Jesus at the Second Advent, and Jesus is several times described in the New Testament as the "Last Adam" (e. [FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]g. [/FONT][/FONT]I Cor. 15:45, Rom. 5:14).Since the last tree of life refers to the last Adam, the first tree of life must be a symbol of the first Adam in perfection. We can infer, then, that the tree of life in Revelations and the tree of life in Genesis are the same tree.

Because of the fall, the first Adam failed to become a tree of life. That is why the last Adam must come to fulfil the tree of life.

God created two human beings in the Garden of Eden, and there were two trees in the middle of the Garden.
Since we now know that the tree of life symbolizes perfected Adam, what would the tree of knowledge of good and evil represent? It stood beside the tree of life in the middle of the Garden, and its fruit was eaten before God had allowed it to be eaten. We can conclude it was a symbol of Eve in her present, unperfected state.

Identity of theSerpent

Animal, or Spiritual Being?

No member of the animal kingdom can talk to man. This serpent not only talked, but knew about God's commandment to Adam and Eve. God is a spiritual being. Only one who was also a spiritual being, with spiritual senses, could perceive God and understand His commandment. Therefore, the serpent must represent a spiritual being.

This serpent deceived the lord of all creation, man, who was a spiritual
being, and caused him to fall. Even the most foolish man has never been deceived by a snake. A reptile may bite a man, but it cannot deceive or tempt a person. Therefore, the serpent must represent a spiritual being.

Rev. 12:9 - "And that great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent,
who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world; he
was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. "

The serpent was called the Devil and Satan. The Devil or Satan works spiritually, not through animals.
[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]c. [/FONT][/FONT]The serpent had angels under his dominion. Therefore, the serpent must represent a spiritual being.
From this, we understand that "serpent" is a symbolic name for a spiritual being called Satan.

Origin of the Serpent

Did Satan exist from the beginning?

Some people believe that Satan has existed with God from the beginning. If this were true, we would be living in a dualistic universe in which the struggle between good and evil would be inevitable and everlasting. This viewpoint is called "Dualism".
This would mean that God's work of salvation, which is to separate man from Satan, could not be accomplished. There would be no hope to eliminate evil. No one could ever reach perfection.

But God has been carrying out His salvation work. God's purpose of salvation has been to destroy Satan. If Satan had existed from the beginning, God would surely have destroyed him before the creation of man. This would have been much easier for God, and there would have been no suffering for man.

Therefore, Satan must have come into being after God Creation.

Is Satan one of God's creations?

To be continues......
 
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Edgar44

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Continued.


God is a God of goodness. He does not create anything evil. Therefore, Satan cannot be one of His original creations.

God has been working to destroy Satan. If Satan was originally created by God, why would He destroy him? Therefore, Satan cannot be one of God's original creations.
We must come to the conclusion that an originally good being, created by God, fell and became Satan.

Who was the Serpent?

To discover the identity of the "serpent" or Satan, we must look among the created beings of God, for a spiritual being with these characteristics.

(1)One who could converse with man;
(2)One who could know God's will;
[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style](3[/FONT][/FONT]One who deceived man;
(4)One whose home was originally in heaven;
(5)One who, even after his fall, has been able to dominate fallen man throughout history.

In God's creation there are only two kinds of spiritual beings: men and angels. God first created angels, then the universe and man. At the time of the fall, Adam and Eve were the only human beings. Therefore, Satan had to be an angel.


II Peter 2:4"
For God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell. "
Rev. 12:9"... the Devil and Satan, ... and his angels were thrown down with him. "
Satan was a leader of angels:

Isaiah 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, 0 Lucifer, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low. You said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High! But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. "
Therefore, the "serpent" in the Garden was Lucifer, the archangel, who sinned against God and fell from his home in heaven to become Satan.

[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]The Fall of the Archangel and the Fall of Man[/FONT]

[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]The Fall of the Archangel [/FONT]

[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]Jude 6-7[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]"Remember too the angels, how some of them were not content to keep the dominion given to them but abandoned their proper home; and[/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]God has reserved them for judgment on the great Day, ... Remember Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighboring towns; like the angels, they committed fornication and followed unnatural lusts; [/FONT]

[/FONT]The Fall of Man

Before the fall, Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed (Gen. 2:25). However, after they ate the fruit, they felt ashamed of their naked bodies and hid their lower parts with aprons (Gen. 3:7).
It is human nature to hide what is wrong with oneself: (Job. 31:33 "...I have
concealed my transgressions like Adam, by hiding mine iniquity ... "). Thus the parts which Adam and Eve concealed were the parts involved in the evil action of the fall - the sexual parts. Shame was the result of their loss of innocence.
The only desire strong enough to cause man to risk death is the desire for love. Therefore, it was love that led to the fall of man.


The Relationship between the Fall of the Archangel and the Fall of Man

(1)The sin of the archangel was fornication.
(2)The sin of Adam and Eve was committed with the lower parts of their bodies.
(3)The "serpent" - the archangel - tempted Eve, and Eve tempted Adam.
(4)There were no other spiritual beings in the Garden who could have had fornication besides Adam and Eve and the angels.


The Bible tells us that fallen man has a close "blood" relationship with
Satan.

John 8:44
"You are of your father the Devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. "

Mathew 3:7
John the Baptist said to them, "You brood of vipers! ...

Mathew 12:34
Jesus said, "You brood of vipers! ... "

Romans 8:23
" ... but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. "

Man, as the son of the Devil, must be adopted into the family of God. This [FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]i[/FONT][/FONT]mplies that we come from another lineage - Satan's.
We conclude that the fall of man occurred through an act of adultery, an illicit sexual relationship between man and the archangel.

The Fruit of the Tree

A fruit tree multiplies through the fruit, which contains seeds. Man multiplies through love. Here, man is symbolized by a tree, and love is symbolized by fruit. So, the "fruit
of the tree" symbolizes the "love of man".

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is a symbol of Eve. Therefore, the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil means the love of Eve.
Centred on God = Good children, (good fruit), centred on Satan = evil children, (Evil fruit).

The Meaning of Eating the Fruit

Man forms his physical body by eating food. Man should have eaten the fruit of goodness and multiplied descendants of a good blood lineage.

Eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil through the temptation of Satan means that man had a sexual relationship with Satan, and has multiplied an evil blood lineage.

The Origin of Sin

The origin of sin was an immoral sexual relationship between Adam and Eve, the first ancestors, and the archangel.


Evidence that the Fall was Adultery


By examining some of the consequences of the fall, we can find additional evidence that the original sin was an act of adultery.


1.The original sin has been transmitted by the act of love, from generation to generation, down to the present day. Inheritance is transmitted through ancestral blood lineage.


2.Every major religion has placed adultery and fornication among the greatest of sins, Many have even advocated a life of celibacy in an effort to completely avoid the occasion of these sins.


3. Jesus and St. Paul emphasized not getting married.

Matt. 19:12... there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for
the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it. "


I Cor. 7:38"So that he who marries his betrothed does well; but he who
refrains from marriage will do better."


They emphasized celibacy because man fell by the misuse of love and has multiplied fallen children, creating a world of evil which has caused God much sorrow.


God is love. He created man and woman to multiply good children through their love, to fulfil His blessing to man. Therefore, love should be the most precious and holy thing in life. But throughout man's history, the act of love has been regarded as mean and lowly. This is because man fell by the misuse of love.


The chosen people practiced the rite of circumcision. The Mosaic laws are the laws of equal payment (Ex. 21:23: "If any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth"). Man fell by the misuse of his sexual parts and inherited Satan's lineage. To make restitution for this, a male child's foreskin was cut.


Sexual crimes have caused the downfall of many great men and nations throughout history (e.g. the decline of the Roman Empire).


In the fallen world, many crimes can be traced to broken homes, or to a failure or distortion of love between man and woman, and parents and children.


Many crimes and evils can be eliminated by the advancement of science and economy, and by the employment of new and highly developed political and social systems. But fornication and adultery cannot be eliminated through the progress of civilization alone.


Sexual acts can be committed in privacy. Therefore, to cut off this immoral activity God must come into man's life, and people must be informed of the dreadful results of such immoral acts in man's eternal life.

This cannot be done by fallen people. To achieve this purpose, the Messiah must come.


The first crime was a sexual crime, committed by the first ancestors. This crime will also be the last crime to be eliminated. It will be cleansed by the last Adam, who comes in the place of the first ancestor, to fulfil God's ideal on earth. The Messiah is the one who comes as the first ancestor, the last Adam.
 
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OzSpen

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So you don't believe what is stated of the Lord in Isa 45:7, ' I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things' (KJV)?

It clearly states that the Lord creates evil in the KJV. Are you discounting that as the Lord speaking?

You stated,
Another persons viewpoint, cannot be considered as 'evidence', it is only their viewpoint.
Click to expand...
I think you will have a hard time convincing a judge in court that eyewitnesses who are providing evidence 'cannot be considered as "evidence"'.

What was the importance of eyewitnesses in writing Luke's Gospel? He told us:
To write his Gospel, Luke depended on some eyewitnesses and his writings became part of Scripture.

Oz
 
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Edgar44

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Now this I do call evidence, and am unable to explain it. Thank you for pointing this passage out to me.

Ii still does not change my views though, as there is far more in the Bible which supports the opposite view, of what Isaiah states.

There are many passages which 'appear' to say the opposite of something stated elsewhere in the Bible.

Example's.....

James 1:13
King James Version (KJV)

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, 'neither tempteth he any man:'


Genesis 22:1
King James Version (KJV)

And it came to pass after these things, 'that God did tempt Abraham', and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

And...........

Deuteronomy 14:7-8
King James Version (KJV)

'Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud', or of them that divide the cloven hoof;................

Genesis 9:3
King James Version (KJV)

'Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you'; even as the green herb have I given you all things.




Which verses do we go by? The Bible is not contradictory, but it can be confusing.

You stated,
I think you will have a hard time convincing a judge in court that eyewitnesses who are providing evidence 'cannot be considered as "evidence"'.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I stated no such thing. Perhaps you confused me with another, yourself perhaps? It was yourself which made that statement, not me.

What I was saying, is that a person's 'opinion', can not be used as evidence.

If I were to use your own guidelines, then I should be a Mormon or a Muslim: I believe those two faith 'examples' claim to have tons of your definition of 'eyewitness accounts'.

Would you accept all that is written within the Koran, because of their eyewitness testimony? No, of course you wouldn't, else you would be of the Islamic faith.

What was the importance of eyewitnesses in writing Luke's Gospel? He told us: To write his Gospel, Luke depended on some eyewitnesses and his writings became part of Scripture.
Oz
Click to expand...

And again, you speak about eyewitness testimony. Not a topic I was discussing. I was speaking of a man's opinion. Opinion, eyewitness testimony? not even close to being the same thing.

In particular we were speaking about Calvin, not about Biblical authors.

Do you reject the fact God said 'we have to be perfect'? If God did say this, this means God left something for man to do!

Mankind determines if man is good or evil, not God.

One question, are you a dualist, do you believe in eternal good and evil?

Just curious.
 
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OzSpen

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Edgar,

You are here stating,
'Sorry, I stated no such thing. Perhaps you confused me with another, yourself perhaps? It was yourself which made that statement, not me.

What I was saying, is that a person's 'opinion', can not be used as evidence.
​
That is not the case. I made my comment about eyewitnesses, based on what you stated in #85. I invented nothing. If you go back to #85, it was you who stated: 'Another persons viewpoint, cannot be considered as "evidence", it is only their viewpoint'.

We do have a contradiction between the KJV translation of Isa 45:7 and the verses you quoted. I'll leave it to you to do the exegetical investigation of 45:7. I found that the KJV is a wrong translation. See my explanation at: Isaiah 45:7: Who or what is the origin of evil?

Oz

 
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Hismessenger

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The problem is that when it is read that God created everything good, we try to associate that good to what we understand. People often ask, how or why does God allow evil to exist in his creation and there are two reasons. First when he said that everything that he created was good, he didn't mean ice cream and lollipops, but that rather everything he created was good for the purpose he intended it for. And secondly because he is God Almighty all by himself. Who is there to intervene against what he has purposed for the creation?

hismessenger
 
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Edgar44

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God is omniscient and omnipotent. Therefore, God must have known that Adam and Eve were falling. Because of this He should have been able to intervene and prevent it if He wanted to. But from the fact that the fall of Adam and Eve took place, we can understand that He did not intervene, even though He knew it was happening.


Then, why did He not directly stop the fall? Why didn't He intervene in the fall? Why does He try to save Adam and Eve only after their fall?

There must have been reasons which prevented God from intervening in the fall.

God is perfect, therefore His Laws or Principles should also be perfect. God created His Principles first, in the beginning. According to His Principles for the Creation, God is to control perfected man through His love. He cannot control an immature or unperfected being through all time.

1. God cannot violate His own laws or principles.

The fall of Adam and Eve took place during their growth period, during which they had to grow to perfection by the force of the Principle, and by fulfilling their portion of responsibility. Therefore, if God intervenes in their fall, He comes to control them while they are in an immature or unperfected state. He then comes to disregard and violate His own Principles, which limits God's direct control only to perfect beings. The Principle which is disregarded or violated by God cannot be the perfect Principle, but it becomes imperfect.

If the Principle which was created by Him becomes imperfect, the creator of the Principle also becomes an imperfect being. But God cannot be an imperfect being.

Therefore, to give inviolability and perfectness to His Principle , He could not intervene.

2. God Alone is the Creator God controls.


God controls or intervenes only in things which are created by Him.
Therefore, if any being or thing comes to receive God's control or intervention, it comes to have the value of being created by Him. This is the reason why God does not directly intervene with Hell or evil deeds, so that they will not become a part of His creation.

The falling action was not created by God. If God intervenes in the action of falling, this falling action comes to have the value of being created by God. This would make the falling action of Adam and Eve an action of His Principle.

The actual creator of the action of falling was Satan. Therefore, if God acknowledged the fall as part of His creation by intervening in it, a new Principle would be created which makes an evil action an action of Principle. This evil action was caused by Satan. Thus, Satan also becomes a creator of a new Principle.

God cannot allow Satan to become a creator along with Him. Therefore, for God to be the only creator, He could not intervene in the action of the fall of Adam and Eve.

3. To Give Man the Qualification to be the Lord of all Creation.

All the creation reached perfection. For man to be the lord of all creation, he must also be perfect. As immature or unperfected man, he cannot control perfected creation. When man receives God's control, he receives at that time the qualification of being a perfected man, because God controls only perfected beings.

Therefore, if God would intervene in man's fall during his growth stage, He automatically comes to give the qualification of perfection to immature, unperfected man. Then immature, unperfected man becomes the lord of all creation, without the proper qualifications. This cannot be so.

Therefore, in order to make man a qualified lord of creation, God could not intervene in the falling action of Adam and Eve.




 
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NannaNae

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so refreshing to see someone who understands man's free will and God's free will , which he has to be lawful first or creation crumbles .. blessyou!! blessyou !!
yes God is not a genie or a witch !! bless you for those hard earned valuable concepts there! like a breath of fresh air!!
and no accusation of God's choice to not be unlawful.. God's choice to not be a genie or not be a witch and control what is not his to control.. !!!!!!
 
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Edgar44

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Thank you for your understanding, not too many do.
 
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Hismessenger

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All things are created of God. The truth of this is in this statement. In the beginning God created, Before he created was there any will but his. And what did he mean when he said on the sixth day, that everything he had created was not just GOOD but VERY GOOD. In other words he was very pleased with what he had ordained to be in his creation for his purpose. Satan is a created being. He didn't just show uo from out of nowhere.

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Inkfingers

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God is the source of EVERYTHING that occurs. Everything. Without limit. He is sovereign over ALL that occurs.


  • “In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God” (John 1:1)
  • “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3)
  • “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7)
  • “No one has authority unless it is given them” (John 19:11)
  • “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” (Proverbs 16:4)
  • “And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh” (Exo 9:12)
  • “I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go” (Exo 4:21)
  • “Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden” (Romans 9:18)
  • “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn” (John 12:40)
Nowhere does the Bible speak of free will. It speaks of choice, but choice no more has to be free for us than it is free for a bird choosing which bug to eat.
 
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Hismessenger

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If God created sin, He would be the slave of sin.
Click to expand...

This statement is trying to bring God down to our level of understanding. But the proof is in the pudding. It has been said that God cannot dwell where sin is. If this were true, then where was he when we were in the world but yet we come to him. He stands at the door and knocks, where is that door? Within our hearts. Even when we were yet sinners. If he wasn't there, how are you then saved. No man can come to me unless the Father draws him.

Look and understand this profound truth and lean not to your own understanding. He has to be not just there but everywhere for the creation to exist.

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