God creates, He just doesn't know *what* He creates

[PsychoSarah]

Thank you. I thought I would give arbitrary a try since Colter told me that logic is overrated.

Thinking in ways that makes sense is overrated that's a new one

 

[lesliedellow]

Two things, one nothing in the world is a thing to God, when the Bible says God knows all things, it means God knows all things about people.

No, It means what it says. God is omniscient without qualification.

Secondly, you are basically calling Jesus - the one who watches - God and expecting me to confuse believing in God with being watched. I'm sorry but I just don't buy that at all. I may be pointed at, but I am not being watched.

So Jesus isn't the second person of the Trinity? In the "good old days" that would have got you burnt at the stake.

 

[Paulos23]

Hi there,

So look, you might think this is annoying, but I have hit upon another thing which I think might clear up confusion atheists have about God (I could digress and point out that this is only a conversation you can have if you concede that God is at least possible, but I digress). The simple truth, the truth that describes how we relate to God, if at all, is that...



You might have all kinds of questions about that, like how can He not know, why does He not know, when did this happen, to which indeed there are all answers, but for the sake of contrast (which I think will prove most instructive) I will just point out what this is not saying: this is not saying that God does not know whom He creates, it is just saying He does not know "what".

The reason this clears up a lot of confusion atheists may have is simply this, when you test for God's existence, or rather His response, it does not make sense to say "what will God do?" it makes sense to say "who will God talk to?", or for another example it does not make sense to say "will God change this?" it makes sense to say "will God ask this?". As you can see these are categorical mistakes you would make if you thought that the idea of God was that He was busy fashioning stuff for the Universe off on some cloud somewhere, dropping on unsuspecting passers by. God does not do this!

Naturally, it depends - and actually I think this makes the point even clearer - on how you relate to God, in other words it depends on you (I know, I know, some of you will say "that's my proof that He's imaginary", but it doesn't depend on you the same way for everyone, you're not thinking) you may be busy with something, God won't take it off you, He'll work with it too; you may be talking to someone, God won't interrupt, He'll suggest something to say; you may be trying to make a decision, God won't make the decision for you, He'll show you what the consequences will be. This is God. This is how God works. It's not some game people play with your head, it's something we agree on and gather around.

In this way God is able to transform creation, without destroying it and thus He creates it, before it can refuse to be made.

Hope this helps.

That didn't help a bit. If God doesn't answer, or if God doesn't even notice, us; what good is believing in him?

 

[Gottservant]

That didn't help a bit. If God doesn't answer, or if God doesn't even notice, us; what good is believing in him?

God notices Spirit, your Spirit is your "who".

 

[Paulos23]

God notices Spirit, your Spirit is your "who".

Funny, I can't find spirt in my inventory. Mind telling me what it looks like?

 

[Gottservant]

Funny, I can't find spirit in my inventory. Mind telling me what it looks like?

IT's sort of blue, like a spark, but if you zap yourself with it before you know what for you can feel guilty about basically anything (guilt is the beginning of a conviction that the Spirit gives)

 

[Ronald]

Gottservant;66415657]Two things, one nothing in the world is a thing to God, when the Bible says God knows all things, it means God knows all things about people.

Everything means all that He created --everything that exists: non living or living, whether chemical, electrical, electromagnetic, biological down to the atomic structures and outward to the universe. He knows how many hairs are on your head or when a sparrow falls to the ground.

Secondly, you are basically calling Jesus - the one who watches - God and expecting me to confuse believing in God with being watched. I'm sorry but I just don't buy that at all. I may be pointed at, but I am not being watched

Jesus is God and you are being watched. If you are a Christian, then the Holy Spirit dwells within you. If you are not then you are blind and that figures why you ask such questions.

 

[Gottservant]

Everything means all that He created --everything that exists: non living or living, whether chemical, electrical, electromagnetic, biological down to the atomic structures and outward to the universe. He knows how many hairs are on your head or when a sparrow falls to the ground.

That's your assumption, that's not God.

Why do you think it specifically says "Jesus made everything that was made"? Is it because everything in the world is already made?

Jesus is God and you are being watched. If you are a Christian, then the Holy Spirit dwells within you. If you are not then you are blind and that figures why you ask such questions.

Wow, check your compassion guage there pal, I don't think you've got many "extra miles" left in the tank

 

[Aldebaran]

Funny, I can't find spirt in my inventory. Mind telling me what it looks like?

Not everything that exists can be seen by the human eye.

 

[PsychoSarah]

God notices Spirit, your Spirit is your "who".

But who we are as people is subject to change, so exactly how would god be aware of how our spirit will be and is if that is constantly changing? And how would such a being be aware of that and yet not be aware of physical forms?

 

[Aldebaran]

But who we are as people is subject to change, so exactly how would god be aware of how our spirit will be and is if that is constantly changing? And how would such a being be aware of that and yet not be aware of physical forms?

First of all, God sees the future as easily as the present. Also, where do you get that He is not aware of physical forms? He most certainly is.

 

[Gottservant]

But who we are as people is subject to change, so exactly how would god be aware of how our spirit will be and is if that is constantly changing? And how would such a being be aware of that and yet not be aware of physical forms?

That is part of the mystery of God.

 

[Paulos23]

Not everything that exists can be seen by the human eye.

And yet we don't have any evidence for spirit (or soul) that is separate from the human body. In fact, there is plenty of evidence that damage to the brain changes a person (personallity and/or memory), something that would not happen if there was spirit or a soul.

As far as I can tell this consept of a soul or a spirit it an attemt to scare people into being good little people, instead of encuraging them to be better.

 

[Aldebaran]

And yet we don't have any evidence for spirit (or soul) that is separate from the human body. In fact, there is plenty of evidence that damage to the brain changes a person (personallity and/or memory), something that would not happen if there was spirit or a soul.

As far as I can tell this consept of a soul or a spirit it an attemt to scare people into being good little people, instead of encuraging them to be better.

Actually, what we are doing is encouraging them. If it scares you, then it says more about you and your reaction to our encouragement than it does about the message.

 

[Paulos23]

Actually, what we are doing is encouraging them. If it scares you, then it says more about you and your reaction to our encouragement than it does about the message.

Given that most people that claim I have a soul and then claim it could go to a bad place, I call that a scare tactic.

I don't see any encouraging other then feel good stuff.

 

[Aldebaran]

Given that most people that claim I have a soul and then claim it could go to a bad place, I call that a scare tactic.

I don't see any encouraging other then feel good stuff.

Ok, so what you call "feel good stuff" doesn't encourage you, and going to a bad place scares you. What would it take to encourage you to embrace going to a good place where you would "feel good"?

 

[Paulos23]

Ok, so what you call "feel good stuff" doesn't encourage you, and going to a bad place scares you. What would it take to encourage you to embrace going to a good place where you would "feel good"?

It doesn't scare me, that is what I see religion doing to people. It ticks me off! You tell someone they have something that you have no evidence for, tell them you can live forever in the hereafter, but if you don't follow our rules you can be in a lake of fire.

It is mental manipulation on a juvinal scale.

 

[Aldebaran]

It doesn't scare me, that is what I see religion doing to people. It ticks me off! You tell someone they have something that you have no evidence for, tell them you can live forever in the hereafter, but if you don't follow our rules you can be in a lake of fire.

It is mental manipulation on a juvinal scale.

Follow the rules? You mean the part about asking Christ into your life and to forgive you of your sins? That's like being in the ocean, drowning, and someone throws you a life preserver telling you to grab it and hold on, and you reply by saying, "Why should I have to follow rules like that and scaring me with the threat that I'll drown if I don't?"

 

[Paulos23]

Follow the rules? You mean the part about asking Christ into your life and to forgive you of your sins? That's like being in the ocean, drowning, and someone throws you a life preserver telling you to grab it and hold on, and you reply by saying, "Why should I have to follow rules like that and scaring me with the threat that I'll drown if I don't?"

Exept I have no evidence I am drowning, and as far as I can tell I am standing on dry ground. So yes, I question why you are throwing a life preserver I don't need.

And forgive for what sins? The original sin? No evidence for that. Sins against God? No evidence for God (and I disagree with some of those sins). Sins against other humans? Why not go appoligize and give reperations to those you have wrong?

I don't see the whole need for forgiveness for, to me, something that is made up or is something that they should go face anyway.

And here is where I will stop on this, since I am off topic (i think).

 

[Gottservant]

you might be off topic, but you are making a point

as a believer we persist for Jesus sake, knowing that some might see eternal life, in this life