God creates, He just doesn't know *what* He creates

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So look, you might think this is annoying, but I have hit upon another thing which I think might clear up confusion atheists have about God (I could digress and point out that this is only a conversation you can have if you concede that God is at least possible, but I digress). The simple truth, the truth that describes how we relate to God, if at all, is that...

God creates, He just doesn't know *what* He creates

You might have all kinds of questions about that, like how can He not know, why does He not know, when did this happen, to which indeed there are all answers, but for the sake of contrast (which I think will prove most instructive) I will just point out what this is not saying: this is not saying that God does not know whom He creates, it is just saying He does not know "what".

The reason this clears up a lot of confusion atheists may have is simply this, when you test for God's existence, or rather His response, it does not make sense to say "what will God do?" it makes sense to say "who will God talk to?", or for another example it does not make sense to say "will God change this?" it makes sense to say "will God ask this?". As you can see these are categorical mistakes you would make if you thought that the idea of God was that He was busy fashioning stuff for the Universe off on some cloud somewhere, dropping on unsuspecting passers by. God does not do this!

Naturally, it depends - and actually I think this makes the point even clearer - on how you relate to God, in other words it depends on you (I know, I know, some of you will say "that's my proof that He's imaginary", but it doesn't depend on you the same way for everyone, you're not thinking) you may be busy with something, God won't take it off you, He'll work with it too; you may be talking to someone, God won't interrupt, He'll suggest something to say; you may be trying to make a decision, God won't make the decision for you, He'll show you what the consequences will be. This is God. This is how God works. It's not some game people play with your head, it's something we agree on and gather around.

In this way God is able to transform creation, without destroying it and thus He creates it, before it can refuse to be made.

Hope this helps.

 

[True Scotsman]

Hi there,

So look, you might think this is annoying, but I have hit upon another thing which I think might clear up confusion atheists have about God (I could digress and point out that this is only a conversation you can have if you concede that God is at least possible, but I digress). The simple truth, the truth that describes how we relate to God, if at all, is that...



You might have all kinds of questions about that, like how can He not know, why does He not know, when did this happen, to which indeed there are all answers, but for the sake of contrast (which I think will prove most instructive) I will just point out what this is not saying: this is not saying that God does not know whom He creates, it is just saying He does not know "what".

The reason this clears up a lot of confusion atheists may have is simply this, when you test for God's existence, or rather His response, it does not make sense to say "what will God do?" it makes sense to say "who will God talk to?", or for another example it does not make sense to say "will God change this?" it makes sense to say "will God ask this?". As you can see these are categorical mistakes you would make if you thought that the idea of God was that He was busy fashioning stuff for the Universe off on some cloud somewhere, dropping on unsuspecting passers by. God does not do this!

Naturally, it depends - and actually I think this makes the point even clearer - on how you relate to God, in other words it depends on you (I know, I know, some of you will say "that's my proof that He's imaginary", but it doesn't depend on you the same way for everyone, you're not thinking) you may be busy with something, God won't take it off you, He'll work with it too; you may be talking to someone, God won't interrupt, He'll suggest something to say; you may be trying to make a decision, God won't make the decision for you, He'll show you what the consequences will be. This is God. This is how God works. It's not some game people play with your head, it's something we agree on and gather around.

In this way God is able to transform creation, without destroying it and thus He creates it, before it can refuse to be made.

Hope this helps.

For those who are indwelt with the zero time plank star quark/ anti quark entanglement nucleus, the perturbations of the multidimensional flavor neutral spacial metric motivation are evident.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Pretty sure this argument makes for a highly limited, non omniscient deity that most Christians would not be ok with

 

[Gottservant]

For those who are indwelt with the zero time plank star quark/ anti quark entanglement nucleus, the perturbations of the multidimensional flavor neutral spacial metric motivation are evident.

You almost made the kind of sense I make, well done.

 

[Gottservant]

Pretty sure this argument makes for a highly limited, non omniscient deity that most Christians would not be ok with

God is omniscient, its just that He's omniscient about who He creates, not what (He creates).

 

[PsychoSarah]

God is omniscient, its just that He's omniscient about who He creates, not what (He creates).

Don't you think it should be the other way around, that god knows what it creates, but not who? That makes much more sense, God knows what sort of creature/species it creates, but not how experiences will shape them.

 

[Gottservant]

Don't you think it should be the other way around, that god knows what it creates, but not who? That makes much more sense, God knows what sort of creature/species it creates, but not how experiences will shape them.

It would be nice, but it's just not the case.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It would be nice, but it's just not the case.

So you are literally claiming that god knows what sort of people as far as personality goes it creates, but doesn't know how they will physically manifest? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Gottservant]

So you are literally claiming that god knows what sort of people as far as personality goes it creates, but doesn't know how they will physically manifest? That doesn't make sense.

You are who you are because of who you were, not because of what you would have been to what you could have said you were. (selah)

 

[PsychoSarah]

You are who you are because of who you were, not because of what you would have been to what you could have said you were. (selah)

Nice poem, but a direct, concise answer would be nice. My social disorder makes interpreting that difficult.

 

[Ronald]

Gottservant,
You are confused about God. You are leaning on your own understanding and not searching the scriptures. If you did, you would discover that God is sovereign, which means He is in control of everything, He knows all, has power over all things and is everywhere! He knows the beginning from the end. That means He knows every detail, organizes them and knows exactly how it will lead to His ultimate plan. His plan for the world is fixed. The time is fixed. He is outside of time, which is a physical dimension. Time was created with the creation itself. He is not confined to a clock. But in our physical dimension and perspective, we are near the end of this age, @ 11:59PM in the history of man. And at an appointed time (coming soon to your neighborhood), He will judge the world. The stage is being set for this to happen soon. He did not intend for man to live and struggle in a sinful world for eons without end. Sin and evil need to be put down for true peace and harmony to exist.
"Can we all get along?" No, we can't. We've been trying to do that for thousands of years. We have periods of time within select civilizations where evil was under control. God has restrained evil, through governments that He organized and leaders that He ordained.
You need to study the Bible, your confused. Don't even attempt to challenge the atheists on this forum, they will chew you up and spit you out. Get equipped. Besides, apologetics helps with certain people who are on the fence, but with staunch evolutionists who follow Dawkins and Hawking, (some of whom are even professors in their field), it doesn't work. And my friend, as willing and good intentioned as you may be, are not qualified to step into this lions den without being equipped with armor.
Don't these atheists mouths will be shut when the trumpets start to blow. They better invest in diapers because they be ******* in their pants.

 

[Gottservant]

Nice poem, but a direct, concise answer would be nice. My social disorder makes interpreting that difficult.

Don't imagine you are something, be who you were already trying to be.

This is God's message.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Gottservant,
You are confused about God. You are leaning on your own understanding and not searching the scriptures. If you did, you would discover that God is sovereign, which means He is in control of everything, He knows all, has power over all things and is everywhere! He knows the beginning from the end. That means He knows every detail, organizes them and knows exactly how it will lead to His ultimate plan. His plan for the world is fixed. The time is fixed. He is outside of time, which is a physical dimension. Time was created with the creation itself. He is not confined to a clocked. But in our perspective, we are at the 11th hour and maybe 59th minute. And at an appointed time (coming soon to your neighborhood), He will judge the world. The stage is being set for this to happen soon. He did not intend for man to live and struggle in a sinful world for eons without end. Sin and evil need to be put down for true peace and harmony to exist.
"Can we all get along?" No, we can't. We've been trying to do that for thousands of years. We have periods of time within select civilizations where evil was under control. God has restrained evil, through governments that He organized and leaders that He ordained.
You need to study the Bible, your confused. Don't even attempt to challenge the atheists on this forum, they will chew you up and spit you out. Get equipped. Besides, apologetics helps with certain people who are on the fence, but with staunch evolutionists who follow Dawkins and Hawking, (some of whom are even professors in their field), it doesn't work. And my friend, as willing and good intentioned as you may be, are not qualified to step into this lions den without being equipped with armor.
Don't these atheists mouths will be shut when the trumpets start to blow. They better invest in diapers because they be ******* in their pants.

Trust me, I fear potential nonexistence more than I fear some vague unpleasant afterlife.

In any case, don't take Gotts as being necessarily arrogant on purpose or anything, he just doesnt like to take his pills.

 

[Gottservant]

Gottservant,
You are confused about God. You are leaning on your own understanding and not searching the scriptures. If you did, you would discover that God is sovereign, which means He is in control of everything, He knows all, has power over all things and is everywhere! He knows the beginning from the end. That means He knows every detail, organizes them and knows exactly how it will lead to His ultimate plan. His plan for the world is fixed. The time is fixed. He is outside of time, which is a physical dimension. Time was created with the creation itself. He is not confined to a clocked. But in our perspective, we are at the 11th hour and maybe 59th minute. And at an appointed time (coming soon to your neighborhood), He will judge the world. The stage is being set for this to happen soon. He did not intend for man to live and struggle in a sinful world for eons without end. Sin and evil need to be put down for true peace and harmony to exist.
"Can we all get along?" No, we can't. We've been trying to do that for thousands of years. We have periods of time within select civilizations where evil was under control. God has restrained evil, through governments that He organized and leaders that He ordained.
You need to study the Bible, your confused. Don't even attempt to challenge the atheists on this forum, they will chew you up and spit you out. Get equipped. Besides, apologetics helps with certain people who are on the fence, but with staunch evolutionists who follow Dawkins and Hawking, (some of whom are even professors in their field), it doesn't work. And my friend, as willing and good intentioned as you may be, are not qualified to step into this lions den without being equipped with armor.
Don't these atheists mouths will be shut when the trumpets start to blow. They better invest in diapers because they be ******* in their pants.

Two things, one nothing in the world is a thing to God, when the Bible says God knows all things, it means God knows all things about people.

Secondly, you are basically calling Jesus - the one who watches - God and expecting me to confuse believing in God with being watched. I'm sorry but I just don't buy that at all. I may be pointed at, but I am not being watched.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Don't imagine you are something, be who you were already trying to be.

This is God's message.

That has little to do with what god itself understands, but rather god advising people to think of themselves as they wish to be and look towards the future rather than focus on who they are currently.

 

[Gottservant]

That has little to do with what god itself understands, but rather god advising people to think of themselves as they wish to be and look towards the future rather than focus on who they are currently.

Yes, but why would He give that message?

Because He wants you to focus on what He has created?

Or because He wants to focus on you?

 

[PsychoSarah]

Yes, but why would He give that message?

Because He wants you to focus on what He has created?

Or because He wants to focus on you?

I just view it as some inspiration for people who feel stuck trying to improve themselves or reach their goals.

 

[Gottservant]

I just view it as some inspiration for people who feel stuck trying to improve themselves or reach their goals.

Yes, but the subject is whether God is a what or a who...

...I'm pretty sure that if we are defined by who we are, it is because God is a who not a what

 

[PsychoSarah]

Yes, but the subject is whether God is a what or a who...

...I'm pretty sure that if we are defined by who we are, it is because God is a who not a what

Who describes the personality, the non physical, and what describes the physical. As a Christian, you view Jesus as god in the flesh, yes? So is not god both a who and a what?

 

[True Scotsman]

You almost made the kind of sense I make, well done.

Thank you. I thought I would give arbitrary a try since Colter told me that logic is overrated.