GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

Hismessenger · Dec 14, 2009

By our understanding is evil good? That is what I meant when I said it is not good in and of itself for evil is not good. But now we come to the purpose of evil for which God sent it forth in His creation and in that aspect it is good, good for the purpose it was purposed for to accomplish His ends.

Did I make that clear? It takes a little time to sink in. If He said everything was very good and evil is present, then is He talking about the thing made manifest or the reason the thing is manifested?

I believe it is the second one.

hismessenger

Zeena · Dec 14, 2009

Hismessenger said:
By our understanding is evil good? That is what I meant when I said it is not good in and of itself for evil is not good. But now we come to the purpose of evil for which God sent it forth in His creation and in that aspect it is good, good for the purpose it was purposed for to accomplish His ends.

Did I make that clear? It takes a little time to sink in. If He said everything was very good and evil is present, then is He talking about the thing made manifest or the reason the thing is manifested?

I believe it is the second one.

hismessenger

hismessenger, I don't want, nor need YOU to make it clear, I need to see for myself in His Word how it is clear.

Where is the Scripture I requested?

Hismessenger · Dec 14, 2009

Jud 1:4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God* and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Now will come the but's, but the scripture is plain and needs no interpretation.
The wicked were made for the day of evil.

One more and I'll say good night;

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Hismessenger

Zeena · Dec 15, 2009

hismessenger;

Will you please answer a question I have?

When you came to Christ did you repent of your sins?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the answer is 'yes'.
Therefore I can ask the next question [the one that really bothers me];

Did God sin through you while you were a sinner?
If not, please xplain how this fits into your thesis.

Thank you

Hismessenger · Dec 15, 2009

Did God Sin through me while I was a sinner. The answer is NO. This is what my thesis is about. God created the person of Lucifer to be the harbinger of wickedness. Through Adams fall in the garden, Satan gained dominion over the earth, Us. It is His purpose to accuse us when we fall to His temptation. Ever notice that the Serpent never cried foul in the garden. That is because he knew to what purpose He was given, just as Satan knows.What he doesn't know is that he can never defeat God for He is devoid of the light of truth. The angels who are locked in darkness is not talking about something like a dungeon or cave but the lack of understanding which comes with the light of God. If they were truly locked down in the manner the carnal mind would perceive, then where do our wicked thoughts and temptations come from. It can't be all of Satan. But still and all He is a creation of God just as we are, created for God's purpose to wit the intent of the purpose is very good. Not the thing by which the purpose is wrought. For many are created for the day of destruction even in fulfilling their purpose. As the military likes to say, They are expendable. For God can do whatever He likes and turn around and give them another life if He so chooses.

hismessenger

Zeena · Dec 15, 2009

Hismessenger said:
Did God Sin through me while I was a sinner. The answer is NO.

Still confused..

How then can you say "He created the wicked" when God is not the One doing the sinning through them?

Are they not, rather, fitting themselves for destruction?

MarkEvan · Dec 17, 2009

For many are created for the day of destruction even in fulfilling their purpose.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Pro&c=16&v=4&t=KJV#4

Pro 16:4 The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Pro&c=16&v=4&t=KJV#4http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Pro&c=16&v=4&t=KJV#4http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Pro&c=16&v=4&t=KJV#4

You need to hold this verse in context with the rest of scripture.....

The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Psalms 145:9

Say unto them, as I live, saith the Lord GOD I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.

Ezekiel 30:10

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9

A few verses of many that seem to contradict proverbs 16:4, why would God wan`t to save the very things He has made wicked and reserved for the day of judgement?

Hismessenger · Dec 17, 2009

I know that it baffles the mind but the word says that all things were made by Him and for Him. Can you think of anything which the word all doesn't include. I for one submit what I think to the one who gave me the mind to think and understand just that fact. He knows what He is about and we are to trust by faith that He will bring us the the end to which He purposed us for.

hismessenger

MarkEvan · Dec 17, 2009

I agree that all things were made for Him and by Him, however that is quite different than saying that God specifically created people evil. Rather God uses peoples evils for His own Glory remember what Joseph said to his brothers when Jacob died in Egypt......'as for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good,' God doesn`t make men do the evil they do..again remember Paul writing to James 'Let no man say when he is being tempted, I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted by evil nor does God tempt any man.'

Hismessenger · Dec 17, 2009

I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted by evil nor does God tempt any man.'

This is very true but there is another aspect to what it is saying. God has no need to tempt anyone since He has created those things to work for Him. He cannot be tempted by something of His own creation but uses it as the tool by which He tests mankind.

Evil is a created thing just like all else in the creation. It cannot be apart of the creation unless He created it or caused it as a byproduct of another action which He has taken. All things means all things. His word is true even when we can't grasp the fullness of it.

hismessenger

Searching_for_Christ · Dec 19, 2009

I didn't read this whole thread..its just far too long, but why is Evil being treated as a "created" thing? as I understand it all "evil" is, is the sins and actions that we take against God and his word. God created us with a free will, he created us such that we could take any direction! follow the Word of the Lord, and not Sin or we could disobey him, and it would be OUR fault. The sin we commited against God (or rather the Evil) was our own doing not something that God created or put into us....Evil is anything that WE freely choose to do against Gods Word...nothing more.

MarkEvan · Dec 20, 2009

Evil is a created thing just like all else in the creation. It cannot be apart of the creation unless He created it or caused it as a byproduct of another action which He has taken. All things means all things. His word is true even when we can't grasp the fullness of it.

Scripture is clear that God created Lucifer but like all else in creation it is likely that he was created 'very good,' not evil in any way but he grew so through his own will seeking to become like God....I cannot see how the scripture that talks about a Loving Merciful God (yet also a wrathful one) supports one who creates people and beings evil so that his glory can be shown through their eternal demise.

Hismessenger · Dec 20, 2009

Then where did the iniquity come from which was found in Him. Did someone else do some creating apart from God. There are a few scripture which point out this truth but the religious have not the mind to receive this truth for it offends, just as Peter with the sheets of unclean animals. The thing is to submit to the will of God. Whether or not you understand it or not. Some things are not for our understandings at this time.

hismessenger

Zeena · Dec 22, 2009

Hismessenger said:
Then where did the iniquity come from which was found in Him.

It was his CHOICE, sin is a CHOICE to turn away from God.

Sin is not an entity, it is a CHOICE!

WITHOUT the CHOICE in choosing, beings cannot be held responsable for THEIR sins.

Hismessenger · Dec 22, 2009

But who created the choice? You can't get away from the truth. Without God there is no choice, no anything which is involved in the creation.

hismessenger

Zeena · Dec 22, 2009

Hismessenger said:
But who created the choice? You can't get away from the truth. Without God there is no choice, no anything which is involved in the creation.

hismessenger

James 1:14-15
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Tzaousios · Dec 22, 2009

Zeena said:
It was his CHOICE, sin is a CHOICE to turn away from God.

Sin is not an entity, it is a CHOICE!

WITHOUT the CHOICE in choosing, beings cannot be held responsable for THEIR sins.

If the choice was left entirely to man, he would not want to choose to turn to God in the first place.

As for a person choosing to turn away from God, why would they want to do this if their entire being had been transformed by God?

Zeena · Dec 22, 2009

Tzaousios said:
If the choice was left entirely to man, he would not want to choose to turn to God in the first place.

As for a person choosing to turn away from God, why would they want to do this if their entire being had been transformed by God?

2 Peter 2:15
They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness.

Hebrews 11:25
Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

Isaiah 22:12-13
And in that day did the Lord GOD of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth: And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.

Tzaousios · Dec 22, 2009

Zeena, I know you like to post verses, and obviously you should, but please try to say what you mean by posting them in your own words too.

Zeena said:
2 Peter 2:15
They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness.

Yes, but we must consider who Peter means by "they" and also to whom the letter is addressed.

Concerning my assertions, to which I think you are replying, I think one must take into account this passage:

Romans 11:32

32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

Zeena said:
Hebrews 11:25
Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

Once again, who is Paul talking about when he mentions "the people of God," and to whom is he writing the letter?

Zeena said:
Isaiah 22:12-13
And in that day did the Lord GOD of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth: And behold joy and gladness, slaying oxen, and killing sheep, eating flesh, and drinking wine: let us eat and drink; for to morrow we shall die.

This only seems to apply in a roundabout way. What do you mean with this one?

Hismessenger · Dec 22, 2009

The point is that where did the thing come from which is lusted after. IT had a beginning and it is in the creation so who is the author of the creation. WE must let God be God and not try to make him conform to our understandings. He has purpose in everything which is about in His creation. Nothing is here by chance or happenstance.

hismessenger

GOD CREATED EVIL, Period!

Senior Member

..called to BE a Saint

Senior Member

..called to BE a Saint

Senior Member

..called to BE a Saint

Senior Veteran

Senior Member

Senior Veteran

Senior Member

simul justus et peccator

Senior Veteran

Senior Member

..called to BE a Saint

Senior Member

..called to BE a Saint

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

..called to BE a Saint

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός

Senior Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency