God changed the Sabbath

[bugkiller]

No bro, don't go digging into past postings, lets stick with here and now. You agreed with the OP. She asserted that Hebrews 4 refers to sunday. Are you now asserting that as well?

The problem here is covering every single aspect allowing no escape for anyone. While I agree with the OP I'm nor the OP are promoting Sunday as a ritual day of obligation.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Ok then, your opinion does not coincide with orthodox in this particular matter, contrary to your previous statement.

OK then I misspoke. I'm not into the beliefs of the Orthodox Church of any variety.

bugkiller

 

[dqhall]

You wouldn't have a verse for your assumption, didn't think so


The Passover will be Kept during the Millennium Ezekiel 45:21 In Remembrance of Him

All able bodied male Jews were supposed to go to Jerusalem for the Passover and feast of unleavened bread as recorded in the Torah and Talmud. The lambs for the Passover meal were supposed to be slaughtered in the temple during the day of preparation for the Passover supper.

No one is doing this.

The Torah commanded all sorts of animal sacrifices, burnt offerings and a daily sacrificial offering be made. The daily sacrificial offering was done seven days a week. I have not seen such being done in Israel or elsewhere. Has Israel rejected the Torah?

Jesus gave us a better moral code than these festivals and sacrificial offerings.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

(Daniel 7:25) My emphasis here is on scripture that says the Lord has changed times and seasons.

Daniel 7
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The eleventh king/horn changes the times in this passage, I could imagine people use this as an anti-papal verse seeing it applied like this. I disagree that Daniel 7:25 is being used correctly.

In light of Paul's teaching, I do not believe God made any day more special than the other in our particular covenant. People are encouraged in a sense to make every day holy if they so desire.

 

[W2L]

OK then I misspoke. I'm not into the beliefs of the Orthodox Church of any variety.

bugkiller

Its ok, i do it often myself.

 

[W2L]

I guess all I can say is the Bible is written to some and nothing but gibberish to others.

bugkiller

Perhaps. Its by opinion that no one understands it fully, hence all the division.

 

[shelley1952]

Act 15:5 And some of those who were of the sect of the Pharisees, who believed, rose up from among them , saying that they ought to circumcise them and enjoin them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:6 And the apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter.
Act 15:8 And the heart-knowing God bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit as to us also,
Act 15:9 and put no difference between us and them, having purified their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Act 15:19 Wherefore *I* judge, not to trouble those who from the nations turn to God;
Act 15:20 but to write to them to abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood.

In the above scriptures some the sect of Pharisees were saying the new gentile believers had to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses. The Apostles and elders decided since the Jews were unable to to keep them why tie down the new believers with them since in our covenant our salvation is based on faith and not sacrifice. So they told us to stay away from pollution of idols and fornication, what is strangled and from blood.
Not one thing was said about us having to keep the Jewish Sabbath
The Sabbath of the O.T. was a type and shadow of Jesus being our Sabbath, our day of rest, fulfilling all requirements of the perfect sacrifice that would end the religious Sabbath, He is the permanent rest for us.

The various elements of the Sabbath symbolized the coming of the Messiah, who would provide a permanent rest for His people. Once again the example of resting from our labors comes into play. With the establishment of the Old Testament Law, the Jews were constantly "laboring" to make themselves acceptable to God. Their labors included trying to obey a myriad of do’s and don’ts of the ceremonial law, the Temple law, the civil law, etc. Of course they couldn’t possibly keep all those laws, so God provided an array of sin offerings and sacrifices so they could come to Him for forgiveness and restore fellowship with Him, but only temporarily. Just as they began their physical labors after a one-day rest, so, too, did they have to continue to offer sacrifices.Hebrews 10:1 tells us that the law "can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship." But these sacrifices were offered in anticipation of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ on the cross, who "after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right of God" (Hebrews 10:12). Just as He rested after performing the ultimate sacrifice, He sat down and rested—ceased from His labor of atonement because there was nothing more to be done, ever. Because of what He did, we no longer have to "labor" in law-keeping in order to be justified in the sight of God. Jesus was sent so that we might rest in God and in what He has provided.

 

[1John2:4]

Act 15:5 And some of those who were of the sect of the Pharisees, who believed, rose up from among them , saying that they ought to circumcise them and enjoin them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:6 And the apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter.
Act 15:8 And the heart-knowing God bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit as to us also,
Act 15:9 and put no difference between us and them, having purified their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Act 15:19 Wherefore *I* judge, not to trouble those who from the nations turn to God;
Act 15:20 but to write to them to abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood.

In the above scriptures some the sect of Pharisees were saying the new gentile believers had to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses. The Apostles and elders decided since the Jews were unable to to keep them why tie down the new believers with them since in our covenant our salvation is based on faith and not sacrifice. So they told us to stay away from pollution of idols and fornication, what is strangled and from blood.
Not one thing was said about us having to keep the Jewish Sabbath
The Sabbath of the O.T. was a type and shadow of Jesus being our Sabbath, our day of rest, fulfilling all requirements of the perfect sacrifice that would end the religious Sabbath, He is the permanent rest for us.

The various elements of the Sabbath symbolized the coming of the Messiah, who would provide a permanent rest for His people. Once again the example of resting from our labors comes into play. With the establishment of the Old Testament Law, the Jews were constantly "laboring" to make themselves acceptable to God. Their labors included trying to obey a myriad of do’s and don’ts of the ceremonial law, the Temple law, the civil law, etc. Of course they couldn’t possibly keep all those laws, so God provided an array of sin offerings and sacrifices so they could come to Him for forgiveness and restore fellowship with Him, but only temporarily. Just as they began their physical labors after a one-day rest, so, too, did they have to continue to offer sacrifices.Hebrews 10:1 tells us that the law "can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship." But these sacrifices were offered in anticipation of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ on the cross, who "after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right of God" (Hebrews 10:12). Just as He rested after performing the ultimate sacrifice, He sat down and rested—ceased from His labor of atonement because there was nothing more to be done, ever. Because of what He did, we no longer have to "labor" in law-keeping in order to be justified in the sight of God. Jesus was sent so that we might rest in God and in what He has provided.

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

 

[W2L]

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Many generations, before Christ.

 

[SAAN]

Act 15:5 And some of those who were of the sect of the Pharisees, who believed, rose up from among them , saying that they ought to circumcise them and enjoin them to keep the law of Moses.

Act 15:6 And the apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter.
Act 15:8 And the heart-knowing God bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit as to us also,
Act 15:9 and put no difference between us and them, having purified their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?
Act 15:19 Wherefore *I* judge, not to trouble those who from the nations turn to God;
Act 15:20 but to write to them to abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood.

In the above scriptures some the sect of Pharisees were saying the new gentile believers had to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses. The Apostles and elders decided since the Jews were unable to to keep them why tie down the new believers with them since in our covenant our salvation is based on faith and not sacrifice. So they told us to stay away from pollution of idols and fornication, what is strangled and from blood.
Not one thing was said about us having to keep the Jewish Sabbath
The Sabbath of the O.T. was a type and shadow of Jesus being our Sabbath, our day of rest, fulfilling all requirements of the perfect sacrifice that would end the religious Sabbath, He is the permanent rest for us.

The various elements of the Sabbath symbolized the coming of the Messiah, who would provide a permanent rest for His people. Once again the example of resting from our labors comes into play. With the establishment of the Old Testament Law, the Jews were constantly "laboring" to make themselves acceptable to God. Their labors included trying to obey a myriad of do’s and don’ts of the ceremonial law, the Temple law, the civil law, etc. Of course they couldn’t possibly keep all those laws, so God provided an array of sin offerings and sacrifices so they could come to Him for forgiveness and restore fellowship with Him, but only temporarily. Just as they began their physical labors after a one-day rest, so, too, did they have to continue to offer sacrifices.Hebrews 10:1 tells us that the law "can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship." But these sacrifices were offered in anticipation of the ultimate sacrifice of Christ on the cross, who "after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right of God" (Hebrews 10:12). Just as He rested after performing the ultimate sacrifice, He sat down and rested—ceased from His labor of atonement because there was nothing more to be done, ever. Because of what He did, we no longer have to "labor" in law-keeping in order to be justified in the sight of God. Jesus was sent so that we might rest in God and in what He has provided.

Also not one thing was said about worshiping other Gods, not coveting, stealing, bearing false witness, not killing either. Those 4 things in Acts 15, were just basic guidelines to get them started, just like you have basic guidelines at your job before you learn all the rules.

Acts 15:21 says they will learn the rest in the synagogues every Sabbath.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

2 Corinthians 3:13-15
And are not like Moses, who put a veil on his face so that the sons of Israel would not gaze at the end of that which was being done away with.
But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

 

[lstnag2016]

2 Corinthians 3:13-15
And are not like Moses, who put a veil on his face so that the sons of Israel would not gaze at the end of that which was being done away with.
But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.

Why Is that the case with Judah

It is not because they didn't seek after Righteousness, It was because that they didn't seek it by Faith... Romans 9:31-32 Matthew 23:23

and a mystery of iniquity has gripped christianity

a veil remains

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Why Is that the case with Judah

It is not because they didn't seek after Righteousness, It was because that they didn't seek it by Faith... Romans 9:31-32 Matthew 23:23

and a mystery of iniquity has gripped christianity

a veil remains

Now it is because they "would not gaze at the end of that which was being done away with."

 

[lstnag2016]

Now it is because they "would not gaze at the end of that which was being done away with."

Psalms 119:142 His Torah is Forever settled in Heaven, and The Righteousness that proceeds from Him is not going away as you comically say... To anyone that knows and believes the Truth Isaiah 51:4

Those that overcome are singing two songs, They have the Testimony of YESHUA, The Song of the Lamb and the Song of Moses, The Torah Revelation 15:3 and If they do not have this testimony it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

The Torah is Light

Pointing the way

His Path

selah ~

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Why Is that the case with Judah

It is not because they didn't seek after Righteousness, It was because that they didn't seek it by Faith... Romans 9:31-32 Matthew 23:23

and a mystery of iniquity has gripped christianity

a veil remains

Note that the verse says that 'Only in Christ' is the veil removed so contrary to what you said the veil does not remain when one is 'In Christ' (in grace)

read it again

2 Corinthians 3:13-15
And are not like Moses, who put a veil on his face so that the sons of Israel would not gaze at the end of that which was being done away with.
But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.


That was written as an example for new covenant believers

 

[W2L]

Note that the verse says that 'Only in Christ' is the veil removed so contrary to what you said the veil does not remain when one is 'In Christ' (in grace)

Its my belief that a person who believes one day is holier than another, has not yet stepped beyond the veil. THe veil in my opinion, is a place of grace not legalism. Sure there are thing that Christians know to be right and wrong, but I don't believe that observing certain days are among them.

People often become context Nazis (forgive my use of the term but its popular) and they forget that the whole doctrine of Christ is a context of the spirit not the letter. What is paul saying in Galatians 5-6? Is he merely rebuking circumcision? No, hes also exhorting liberty too. That liberty is seen in understanding works of flesh and fruit of the spirit. There are no holy days mentioned in either the works of flesh or fruit of the spirit.

Why can we not just put faith in this understanding alone? Why must we need to put ourselves under this veil of legalism? Its about works of flesh and fruit of the spirit, this is the ministration of the spirit that paul talks about, in my opinion.

 

[lstnag2016]

Note that the verse says that 'Only in Christ' is the veil removed so contrary to what you said the veil does not remain when one is 'In Christ' (in grace)

read it again

2 Corinthians 3:13-15
And are not like Moses, who put a veil on his face so that the sons of Israel would not gaze at the end of that which was being done away with.
But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.


That was written as an example for new covenant believers

And the New Covenant is with Israel and Judah Only Jeremiah 31:33-35 Hebrews 8:8-10

and the New Covenant says that He will Write the Same Torah upon hearts of Flesh

They Followed the Old after the letter, as if it were by works, but not by faith

So when YESHUA comes, A free Gift, a stumblingblock, The Torah remains, and blessed is the man to whom YAH imputes Righteousness, Delights in His Torah Psalms 40:8

The problem was not His Righteousness, It was they thought they could attain it without Faith

christianity now says, we have faith Romans 3:31

the hardness in part of christianity/ Israel if they are saved, is not the hardness of Judah

This is the blindness in part, hardness of heart of today's typical believer Hosea 8:12

 

[W2L]

Clearly a person can observe holy days, according to Romans 14, but surely Romans 14 also shows that they are not necessary. This point will be argued against by SDA and others, but its my opinion that the context of Christ's doctrine, given through Pauls writings, is that its about works of flesh and fruit of the spirit. If we concentrate on that then we can grow in Christ without becoming legalistic about it. In my opinion.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Its my belief that a person who believes one day is holier than another, has not yet stepped beyond the veil. THe veil in my opinion, is a place of grace not legalism. Sure there are thing that Christians know to be right and wrong, but I don't believe that observing certain days are among them.

People often become context Nazis (forgive my use of the term but its popular) and they forget that the whole doctrine of Christ is a context of the spirit not the letter. What is paul saying in Galatians 5-6? Is he merely rebuking circumcision? No, hes also exhorting liberty too. That liberty is seen in understanding works of flesh and fruit of the spirit. There are no holy days mentioned in either the works of flesh or fruit of the spirit.

Why can we not just put faith in this understanding alone? Why must we need to put ourselves under this veil of legalism? Its about works of flesh and fruit of the spirit, this is the ministration of the spirit that paul talks about, in my opinion.

Everywhere I have professed not to be a day worshipper whether Saturday or Sunday but for you to judge me on days is going against what the bible says. Your liberty is being used as an excuse for judging others in an holier than tho manner. Remember only the publican was justified not the Pharisee.

Galations 4 is one of my favorite chapters of the bible where is clearly expounds on the idea of grace for the children of the promise. Those who are of Ishmael are also blessed but not in the same manner. T^hat's the difference between law and grace.

 

[W2L]

And the New Covenant is with Israel and Judah Only Jeremiah 31:33-35 Hebrews 8:8-10

and the New Covenant says that He will Write the Same Torah upon hearts of Flesh

They Followed the Old after the letter, as if it were by works, but not by faith

So when YESHUA comes, A free Gift, a stumblingblock, The Torah remains, and blessed is the man to whom YAH imputes Righteousness, Delights in His Torah Psalms 40:8

The problem was not His Righteousness, It was they thought they could attain it without Faith

christianity now says, we have faith Romans 3:31

the hardness in part of christianity/ Israel if they are saved, is not the hardness of Judah

This is the blindness in part, hardness of heart of today's typical believer Hosea 8:12

Why not just yield to Romans 14? Surely you can see that arguing about holy days is futile. We will argue this forever and no one will change their mind. Therefore we should be seeing that there is something wrong here. My opinion is that we can simply yield to Romans 14 and all keep such things to ourselves. This includes Christians who believe Sunday is Gods day. Keep it to yourself. Its not worth arguing over to no end.

Surely you can see that Hebrews 4 is not talking about a particular day of the week. Surely you must see this. Take that scripture, and romans 14, and Galatians 5-6. Put them together and see that we are not lawless but we are not under the OC law either.