God changed the Sabbath

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Clearly a person can observe holy days, according to Romans 14, but surely Romans 14 also shows that they are not necessary. This point will be argued against by SDA and others, but its my opinion that the context of Christ's doctrine, given through Pauls writings, is that its about works of flesh and fruit of the spirit. If we concentrate on that then we can grow in Christ without becoming legalistic about it. In my opinion.

Paul's writings went far beyond that which is used as the shadow. Concentrate more on what the Gvmnt of God is from Peter's writing will give a deeper meaning.

 

[W2L]

Everywhere I have professed not to be a day worshipper whether Saturday or Sunday but for you to judge me on days is going against what the bible says. Your liberty is being used as an excuse for judging others in an holier than tho manner. Remember only the publican was justified not the Pharisee.

Galations 4 is one of my favorite chapters of the bible where is clearly expounds on the idea of grace for the children of the promise. Those who are of Ishmael are also blessed but not in the same manner. T^hat's the difference between law and grace.

I'm not judging you. Forgive me for sounding that way. I am only speaking in general terms. I was not singling you out in anyway.

 

[W2L]

Paul's writings went far beyond that which is used as the shadow. Concentrate more on what the Gvmnt of God is from Peter's writing will give a deeper meaning.

What do mean?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

What do mean?

That's beyond the scope of the topic.

 

[W2L]

I should have been more specific, When I say "we" I'm referring to the whole body. I wasnt trying to single anyone out though.

 

[W2L]

That's beyond the scope of the topic.

Ok

 

[lstnag2016]

Why not just yield to Romans 14? Surely you can see that arguing about holy days is futile. We will argue this forever and no one will change their mind. Therefore we should be seeing that there is something wrong here. My opinion is that we can simply yield to Romans 14 and all keep such things to ourselves. This includes Christians who believe Sunday is Gods day. Keep it to yourself. Its not worth arguing over to no end.

Surely you can see that Hebrews 4 is not talking about a particular day of the week. Surely you must see this. Take that scripture, and romans 14, and Galatians 5-6. Put them together and see that we are not lawless but we are not under the OC law either.

Because if you read Romans 14 through Hebrew eyes, Paul is not a flip flopper... The context is Fasting and Not Fasting on certain days, some hold these days in high esteem, while others do not, Judah for example remembers these days by Fasting

One such day is the Fast of the 5th Month, coming up this Month Zechariah 8:19 on the Biblical Calendar, the problem is reading paul through a mind of inherited lies.

The Bible has the answers, Paul didn't suddenly blurt out something that contradicted what he said throughout Romans 3:31

And look at what Zechariah 8:19 says, because Judah remembered these days, even though they were never commanded to keep them... YAH is going to make them Joyful feasts

The Context of Romans 14 Fasting if you esteem the day, or not fasting, or fasting with vegetables, or another meat, however you like to do it, or not do it...

you find the answers you seek, if you think the Torah has been abolished, it's abolished for you, you are lawless, if you believe YESHUA is not God, you will find scriptures you believe support that no matter the evidence, the same goes for those who twist paul, and It was the false witnesses that said Paul did not walk orderly and keep the Torah Acts 21:24

the paul of Christianity is a hypocrite, he paid for the Animal sacrifices of the four men to prove he walked orderly and kept the Torah, and did not discourage the Jews from circumcising their children, why do most christian nations still circumcise, another subject

Paul was not a hypocrite, but Peter was right, those that don't know the scriptures are never out of ways to twist him.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Its my belief that a person who believes one day is holier than another, has not yet stepped beyond the veil. THe veil in my opinion, is a place of grace not legalism. Sure there are thing that Christians know to be right and wrong, but I don't believe that observing certain days are among them.

People often become context Nazis (forgive my use of the term but its popular) and they forget that the whole doctrine of Christ is a context of the spirit not the letter. What is paul saying in Galatians 5-6? Is he merely rebuking circumcision? No, hes also exhorting liberty too. That liberty is seen in understanding works of flesh and fruit of the spirit. There are no holy days mentioned in either the works of flesh or fruit of the spirit.

Why can we not just put faith in this understanding alone? Why must we need to put ourselves under this veil of legalism? Its about works of flesh and fruit of the spirit, this is the ministration of the spirit that paul talks about, in my opinion.

The veil mentioned here is about that which was being done away with in context to Moses being read. That was to tie in with the subject of Moses being read in the synogogue ( the subject on last page)
Paul's predominant ministry was done in the synogogues aimed at the gentile adherents to Judaism from which he got most of his followers.

Note that the verse says that 'Only in Christ' is the veil removed so contrary to what you said the veil does not remain when one is 'In Christ' (in grace)

read it again

2 Corinthians 3:13-15
And are not like Moses, who put a veil on his face so that the sons of Israel would not gaze at the end of that which was being done away with.
But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.


That was written as an example for new covenant believers

 

[W2L]

The veil mentioned here is about that which was being done away with in context to Moses being read. That was to tie in with the subject of Moses being read in the synogogue ( the subject on last page)
Paul's predominant ministry was done in the synogogues aimed at the gentile adherents to Judaism from which he got most of his followers.

I know what the veil was, and it refers to the OC. It refers to a separation of God and man. The NC however is about the ministry of the spirit, both through the teachings of Christ and his apostles, and through the spirit that is given to all believers.

 

[W2L]

Because if you read Romans 14 through Hebrew eyes, Paul is not a flip flopper... The context is Fasting and Not Fasting on certain days, some hold these days in high esteem, while others do not, Judah for example remembers these days by Fasting

One such day is the Fast of the 5th Month, coming up this Month Zechariah 8:19 on the Biblical Calendar, the problem is reading paul through a mind of inherited lies.

The Bible has the answers, Paul didn't suddenly blurt out something that contradicted what he said throughout Romans 3:31

And look at what Zechariah 8:19 says, because Judah remembered these days, even though they were never commanded to keep them... YAH is going to make them Joyful feasts

The Context of Romans 14 Fasting if you esteem the day, or not fasting, or fasting with vegetables, or another meat, however you like to do it, or not do it...

you find the answers you seek, if you think the Torah has been abolished, it's abolished for you, you are lawless, if you believe YESHUA is not God, you will find scriptures you believe support that no matter the evidence, the same goes for those who twist paul, and It was the false witnesses that said Paul did not walk orderly and keep the Torah Acts 21:24

the paul of Christianity is a hypocrite, he paid for the Animal sacrifices of the four men to prove he walked orderly and kept the Torah, and did not discourage the Jews from circumcising their children, why do most christian nations still circumcise, another subject

Paul was not a hypocrite, but Peter was right, those that don't know the scriptures are never out of ways to twist him.

I don't agree. Look at Romans chapters 13-14, the whole context is about the law it seems. It refers to love fulfilling the law. I believe paul is surely saying that a man can observe every day alike. Look again at Hebrews 4. How can you ignore this scripture. Surely you can see its not referring to a particular day of the week. Surely you must see how a man can observe every day alike in the context of Hebrews 4.,

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Because if you read Romans 14 through Hebrew eyes, Paul is not a flip flopper... The context is Fasting and Not Fasting on certain days, some hold these days in high esteem, while others do not, Judah for example remembers these days by Fasting

One such day is the Fast of the 5th Month, coming up this Month Zechariah 8:19 on the Biblical Calendar, the problem is reading paul through a mind of inherited lies.

The Bible has the answers, Paul didn't suddenly blurt out something that contradicted what he said throughout Romans 3:31

And look at what Zechariah 8:19 says, because Judah remembered these days, even though they were never commanded to keep them... YAH is going to make them Joyful feasts

The Context of Romans 14 Fasting if you esteem the day, or not fasting, or fasting with vegetables, or another meat, however you like to do it, or not do it...

you find the answers you seek, if you think the Torah has been abolished, it's abolished for you, you are lawless, if you believe YESHUA is not God, you will find scriptures you believe support that no matter the evidence, the same goes for those who twist paul, and It was the false witnesses that said Paul did not walk orderly and keep the Torah Acts 21:24

the paul of Christianity is a hypocrite, he paid for the Animal sacrifices of the four men to prove he walked orderly and kept the Torah, and did not discourage the Jews from circumcising their children, why do most christian nations still circumcise, another subject

Paul was not a hypocrite, but Peter was right, those that don't know the scriptures are never out of ways to twist him.

The Holy Spirit specifically spoke thru many people telling him not to go to Jerusalem too.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't agree. Look at Romans chapters 13-14, the whole context is about the law it seems. It refers to love fulfilling the law. I believe paul is surely saying that a man can observe every day alike. Look again at Hebrews 4. How can you ignore this scripture. Surely you can see its not referring to a particular day of the week. Surely you must see how a man can observe every day alike in the context of Hebrews 4.,

I hoped that in getting the thread title changed it would get you off your one man mission about Sunday (which this thread is no longer about , remember)

 

[W2L]

I hoped that in getting the thread title changed it would get you off your one man mission about Sunday (which this thread is no longer about , remember)

I was merely trying to fair. I was talking to an MJ after all. I was considering their feelings in the matter. YOu should be that way as well, instead of trying to single me out like that. I was only trying to be fair in judgment. You can change the title, but it was you who inserted Sunday here, so please don't blame me for talking about it, its already part of the discussion. I didn't start it.

I'm not on a one man crusade either, I was only trying to discuss this issue in a fair manner.

 

[lstnag2016]

I don't agree. Look at Romans chapters 13-14, the whole context is about the law it seems. It refers to love fulfilling the law. I believe paul is surely saying that a man can observe every day alike. Look again at Hebrews 4. How can you ignore this scripture. Surely you can see its not referring to a particular day of the week. Surely you must see how a man can observe every day alike in the context of Hebrews 4.,

Really, You didn't use Hebrews 4, besides there not being a single command or prophecy in all of scripture that the Sabbath that was set-apart at the beginning would ever change... nonsense, gibberish to the maximus

Hebrews 4:9 says that there remains a Sabbatismos for the people of GOD

Sabbatismos = Keeping Sabbath, the future Rest is the Millennium, even though we have entered His rest, It is Finished (sin debt paid)...We Keep the Sabbath, showing He is the Creator, 6 days 6 thousand years, and that there is one more covenant, The Seventh Covenant, The Seventh day, thousand year Reign of Yeshua, The covenant of Peace.

and That's why it Remains for the believer

Blessed and Holy is he that has part in the first resurrection 7th day

+ 1000 years, the second resurrection, the 8th day = Eternity

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I was merely trying to fair. I was talking to an MJ after all. I was considering their feelings in the matter. YOu should be that way as well, instead of trying to single me out like that. I was only trying to be fair in judgment. You can change the title, but it was you who inserted Sunday here, so please don't blame me for talking about it, its already part of the discussion. I didn't start it.

I'm not on a one man crusade either, I was only trying to discuss this issue in a fair manner.

It does seem like a one-man mission when the subject discussed is being brought back to Sunday constantly. The subject of the thread is sabbath change now, not day of the week change. The veil of 2 Corinthians 3:13-15 is about being brought into the Presence of the new high priest, Heb 4 that you have made the point is not Sunday. May we move on?

 

[W2L]

@ Cassia Not to mention, my post had nothing to do with Sunday anyway.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Really, You didn't use Hebrews 4, besides there being not a single command or prophecy in all of scripture that the Sabbath that was set-apart at the beginning would ever change... nonsense, gibberish to the maximus

Hebrews 4:9 says that there remains a Sabbatismos for the people of GOD

Sabbatismos = Keeping Sabbath, the future Rest is the Millennium, even though we have entered His rest, It is Finished...We Keep the Sabbath, showing He is the Creator, 6 days 6 thousand years, and that there is one more covenant, The Seventh Covenant, The Seventh day thousand year Reign of Yeshua, The covenant of Peace.

and That's why it Remains for the believer

If your going to argue day of the week then do it in sabbath forum. please.

 

[W2L]

It does seem like a one-man mission when the subject discussed is being brought back to Sunday constantly. The subject of the thread is sabbath change now, not day of the week change. The veil of 2 Corinthians 3:13-15 is about being brought into the Presence of the new high priest, Heb 4 that you have made the point is not Sunday. May we move on?

The post you are criticizing didn't even mention Sunday. Try stepping back, taking a breath, and give me a little room. I'm not about Sunday at all. I'm referring only to holy days in general. Is that off topic?

 

[lstnag2016]

If your going to argue day of the week then do it in sabbath forum. please.

to respond or not respond that is the question, you now know the answer .... Ok as you wish, and for completion of mission ... bye bye

 

[1John2:4]

Why not just yield to Romans 14? Surely you can see that arguing about holy days is futile. We will argue this forever and no one will change their mind. Therefore we should be seeing that there is something wrong here. My opinion is that we can simply yield to Romans 14 and all keep such things to ourselves. This includes Christians who believe Sunday is Gods day. Keep it to yourself. Its not worth arguing over to no end.

Surely you can see that Hebrews 4 is not talking about a particular day of the week. Surely you must see this. Take that scripture, and romans 14, and Galatians 5-6. Put them together and see that we are not lawless but we are not under the OC law either.

Hi friend
I am so sad that people see the Sabbath as legalism, its actually the opposite, it is a wonderful blessing to one day a week enter into His rest. Take some time away from creating (working, cleaning, focusing on ourselves and our money) and focus on God and our family. I so look forward to it each and every week after slaving for the man and the world system of craziness, I get to enter into His embrace. Sabbath is a gift not legalism, you all should give it a try sometime

So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
6Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

STRONGS NT 4520: σαββατισμός

σαββατισμός, σαββατισμου, ὁ (σαββατίζω to keep the sabbath);

1. a keeping sabbath.
2. the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians (R. V. sabbath rest): Hebrews 4:9. (Plutarch, de superstit. c. 3; ecclesiastical writings.)