faroukfarouk
Fading curmudgeon
Fellowship is wonderful; although there is no substitute to the individual searching the Scriptures rather than being "told" what to do.
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Fellowship is wonderful; although there is no substitute to the individual searching the Scriptures rather than being "told" what to do.I would love to live in a community where we are all one big church. If only it was viable and not likely to be a cult with twisted scripture.
Seek the Father Himself, as written and described in Scripture - not a big community, not a big "church" .I would love to live in a community where we are all one big church. If only it was viable and not likely to be a cult with twisted scripture.
Cassie, do you know, do you remember Bob Ryan?The point of the thread is that it is not tradition but rather a scripturally documented process that God endorsed. This is not a thread about grace vs law even tho that is what prompted the thread in the first place. In order to keep on topic as a general theology debate it needs to be kept to scripture references that speak about the endurance of God's Word on the Sabbath from old to new testament. As we are all Christians in this area of the forum it is important to keep Christ as the culmination of any thought.
Edit to add --- please let's keep this also to the greater picture that Paul pointed toward
That almost reads like song lyrics to me.For those who turn to Yhwh, as Jesus said to do,
who get born again, as only the Father in heaven by His Will can do,
who get a new and right spirit, which no one deserves or can earn in any way,
who receive (as IT IS WRITTEN) the MIND OF CHRIST,
it is no trouble, no burden, no grief,
to keep all of His Commands, as Jesus always says to do.
"My commandments are not burdensome" (read Psalm 119 to see how WONDERFUL TORAH IS).
"In keeping them there is great reward."
and continuing -
who receive Yhwh's Torah WRITTEN UPON THEIR HEART,
who receive "circumcision of HEART" ,
they (we ekklesia born again by the Father's Will, not our own)
REJOICE in willing and whole hearted obedience to the Father
and following the Shepherd Yeshua (whose VOICE WE HEAR, no doubts, no fears (He takes all of them away) ) .
Heart? Whole Heart ? When there is no other god.
No flesh to follow. Not one of man's traditions to follow. (they HAVE NO GRIP ON US).
No sin has power over us.
The world hates us, but so what !? The world has nothing in us, no power over us.
We may not know how ,
we don't have to.
JESUS KNOWS HOW. He told His disciples "I KNOW YOU DON'T KNOW HOW. Relax, I will show(train) you."
JESUS IS FAITHFUL and TRUE and PERFECT and COMPLETE and TEACHES US.
To me it looks like no one (no one else) wants to be a slave of Righteousness nor a slave of Jesus every day. Just a remnant - just a few of us.I see it this way, if we follow Paul's example, by not seeking wealth but being content with simple things, and if we do good always, good for others and our own families, and we do this daily, then we need not worry about what day of the week it is.
To me it looks like no one (no one else) wants to be a slave of Righteousness nor a slave of Jesus every day. Just a remnant - just a few of us.
It is written frequently in Scripture that we are either slaves of sin OR slaves of Righteousness (slaves of Jesus);
BUT most people don't care and aren't "willing", even if Jesus tells them Himself.
So,
for those, all of those, "not willing", they are like those the tower of siloam fell upon -
if they do not repent(turn to Yhwh) , they perish the same .
Same as Jerusalem Jesus said He would gather their children under His wings (there is NO SAFER PLACE ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE !!!!!!)
BUT
they "would not" --- they were not willing (to give up everything and seek the Father Only)
I have been totally unwilling to be anybody's slave.To me it looks like no one (no one else) wants to be a slave of Righteousness nor a slave of Jesus every day. Just a remnant - just a few of us.
It is written frequently in Scripture that we are either slaves of sin OR slaves of Righteousness (slaves of Jesus);
BUT most people don't care and aren't "willing", even if Jesus tells them Himself.
So,
for those, all of those, "not willing", they are like those the tower of siloam fell upon -
if they do not repent(turn to Yhwh) , they perish the same .
Same as Jerusalem Jesus said He would gather their children under His wings (there is NO SAFER PLACE ANYWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE !!!!!!)
BUT
they "would not" --- they were not willing (to give up everything and seek the Father Only)
No.So you believe that folks who need a special day are failing to see that every day truly is alike in the Lord?
You wont find anything commanding Christians to do anything back then, because they were Hebrews, Jews, and Gentile converts to Judaism. The word Christian was a term the pagans came up with to make fun of followers of Jesus who went by the his real name of Yahusha/Yeshua back then, so its not like they say....hey I want to follow Jesus Christ, so ill call my self a Christian, because that wasnt his name back then, so you will not find any commands specifically to Christians, because that would be adding to the word of God. There was no NT back then so they were all following what the had at the time, the OT.
There is no such thing as Christians commands or Jew commands, the bible is quite clear its one set of commands for God's people in the New Covenant.
They met every day. They also shared everything and had all things in common. That would be the better way.
You posted earlier that litergy is required. Where in scripture do you find that?O boy- we do treat every day like the Lord's day- however- we specifically meet together (worship and communion)- as per scripture- on the first day of the week- also as per scripture- in honor of the Resurrection of Christ- which occurred on a Sunday. Thanks.
another wellknown SDA said that the views of the Philidelphian church era of 150 yrs ago has changed his thinking alot about what they teach.Cassie, do you know, do you remember Bob Ryan?
As a Seventh Day Adventist, he lives and breathes this topic.
And as much as I appreciate the depth, and the request for scripture focused response (I notice I'm lacking in), I too am wondering a little about our scope here, if only for my own weaknesses in this area. I see the need for examining what exactly a commandment is.
I trend towards 'keep the two greatest commandments' and 'every day is the Lord's day' thinking.
Another thought is the irony in how religion turns a day of rest into a day of ritual duty.
What's liturgy? It is community/communal/public worship, aka 'work of the people', praise/thanksgiving/repentance/supplication/prayer/participation. In the Christian context, it is the worship of God centered around communion/eucharist. My question to you is how is that NOT in scripture?You posted earlier that litergy is required. Where in scripture do you find that?
The Sabbath wasnt an issue or a need as command to follow for them, because it was already being observed for 2000+yrs, so they already knew about the day, as it was obvious to them as it would be obvious to us as not having to be told to stop at a stop sign because we already know that we need to.They didn't have the New Testament back then, but you do.
Where in the New Testament are followers of Jesus Christ commanded to have their gathered worship on the Sabbath?
Please answer the question.
-CryptoLutheran
The Sabbath wasnt an issue or a need as command to follow for them, because it was already being observed for 2000+yrs, so they already knew about the day, as it was obvious to them as it would be obvious to us as not having to be told to stop at a stop sign because we already know that we need to.
Where did it say they were commanded to gather on Sunday?
There was no command to.
It became a more common practice in the 1st century when Christianity and Judaism were clashed and Christianity separated itself from Judaism and decided to do its own thing. So both sides were probably guilty of wrong doing, but its human nature to move away from drama if you keep experiencing it
They were given very specific commands in Hebrews not to turn back to Judaism. While that's after Judaism fell and long after the dispersion it was still very specifically commanded in Hebrews 6
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