God cannot be both all knowing and all powerful

[Petros2015]

Maybe it's all relative. Suppose there was a book an author was writing, and I was a character in that book. Relative to me (the character, and really anything else that makes it's way into the Book), the Author is literally all powerful and all knowing.

Now, how you get to an All-Powerful and All-Knowing Author along with Free-Willed characters - that's another problem But as for the first part, I think it's something like that.

Hmm. Maybe a lot like that... John 1:1

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Yes He did. Several times - Isaiah 44:6-8. At least, what He said was, if there were any, He didn't know about them.

...

Because if you are the God of gods, then YOU ARE THE ONLY GOD.

It was a literary commentary on His own power. "I don't know of any gods..." but, He knows everything = no other MOST HIGH GODS exist.

Which is why saying His power is limited, or saying He is an omni, but is lacking something is asinine. You are, then, talking about one of those "gods" The Most High doesn't recognize.

 

[-V-]

Is this the twilight zone?

No, it's the English language. And in the English language "omnipotence" does NOT mean the hyperliteral sense you are trying to force it into.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

om·nip·o·tence
ämˈnipədəns/
noun

1. the quality of having unlimited or very great power.
   "God's omnipotence"
   synonyms: all-powerfulness, almightiness, supremacy, preeminence, supreme power, absolute power, unlimited power;
   invincibility
   "the omnipotence of God"

ABSOLUTE...SUPREME...UNLIMITED.

As I said before, OMNI is absolute, so either you don't believe God is Omni, you think He is lying, or you actually don't know what OMNI means - and what it implies.

And, it is actually Latin, not English, for "all powerful."

 

[Ygrene Imref]

I am not the one marginalizing God to fit in my model.

 

[-V-]

om·nip·o·tence
ämˈnipədəns/
noun

1. the quality of having unlimited or very great power.
   "God's omnipotence"
   synonyms: all-powerfulness, almightiness, supremacy, preeminence, supreme power, absolute power, unlimited power;
   invincibility
   "the omnipotence of God"

ABSOLUTE...SUPREME...UNLIMITED.

As I said before, OMNI is absolute, so either you don't believe God is Omni, you think He is lying, or you actually don't know what OMNI means - and what it implies.

And, it is actually Latin, not English, for "all powerful."

And yet you ignore the "*OR* very great power" part of the definition. You insist on seeing nothing but the "unlimited" part.

 

[-V-]

I am not the one marginalizing God to fit in my model.

Yes, you are. You are forcing God into your "MUST literally be able to do anything" box.

 

[-V-]

Tell me, Ygrene, can God improve Himself? Can He make Himself better?

 

[Ygrene Imref]

And yet you ignore the "*OR* very great power" part of the definition. You insist on seeing nothing but the "unlimited" part.

The word means "All Powerful." Otherwise, you use the modifier "Very great(ly) powerful" if you want to marginalize His power.

As I said, the LATIN (not English) directly means "all powerful." Omni means all, and potent means power. Very simple.

You want your God to be limited, because it makes sense - despite what He said, and what words and etymology actually say. It is a common practice in all religion to bring god down to the human level, and retarding His power that He has said He has is no novel way.

You can believe what you want; I am going with God and etymology (especially given English didn't exist at the time this attribute was a descriptor for God.) The Most High God may not be the same god you are taking about, because He isn't the Most High: He would be "very, very high" according to you and others.

That takes a lot of ignorance (like, ignoring the actual definitions of words, and using their connotations to substantiate your arguments - despite reality.)

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Tell me, Ygrene, can God improve Himself? Can He make Himself better?

You should know the answer.

Immutability.

This also follows from omnipotence and omniscience.

im·mu·ta·ble
i(m)ˈmyo͞odəb(ə)l/
adjective

1. unchanging over time or unable to be changed.
   "an immutable fact"
   synonyms: fixed, set, rigid, inflexible, permanent, established, carved in stone; More
   

 

[-V-]

You should know the answer.

Immutability.

This also follows from omnipotence and omniscience.

im·mu·ta·ble
i(m)ˈmyo͞odəb(ə)l/
adjective

1. unchanging over time or unable to be changed.
   "an immutable fact"
   synonyms: fixed, set, rigid, inflexible, permanent, established, carved in stone; More

Just answer "yes" or "no". Can God improve Himself? Can He make Himself better?

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Yes, you are. You are forcing God into your "MUST literally be able to do anything" box.

mar·gin·al·ize
ˈmärjənəˌlīz/
verb

1. treat (a person, group, or concept) as insignificant or peripheral.
   "attempting to marginalize those who disagree"
   synonyms: sideline, trivialize; More
   

triv·i·al·ize
ˈtrivēəˌlīz/
verb

1. make (something) seem less important, significant, or complex than it really is.
   "the problem was either trivialized or ignored by teachers"
   synonyms: treat as unimportant, minimize, play down, underestimate, make light of, treat lightly,dismiss, underplay, downplay, diminish, belittle;
   informalpooh-pooh
   "I would appreciate it if you would not trivialize my problems"

I am not the one marginalizing the Most High God into a god that is "pretty high, but is not all powerful DESPITE what He and His people say."

I have always said He was OMNI; several people including you put LIMITS on his power. My "essays" showed there is categorically NO LIMIT to omni.


The "MUST literally be able to do anything" box is called The Definition of Omnipotence.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Just answer "yes" or "no". Can God improve Himself? Can He make Himself better?

So you don't know the answer? THE Most High God is perfectly perfect; He does not have any need to improve Himself. He is eternal, so He remains at perfection.

I thought IMMUTABILITY was clear but considering OMNIPOTENCE isn't clear...

im·prove
imˈpro͞ov/
verb

1. make or become better.
   "we’ve used technology to improve relations with customers"
   synonyms: make better, better, ameliorate, upgrade, update, refine, enhance, boost, build on, raise,polish, fix (up), amend; More
   
   
   • develop or increase in mental capacity by education or experience.
     "I subscribed to two magazines to improve my mind"
   • achieve or produce something better than.
     "they are trying to improve on the tired old style"
     synonyms: surpass, better, do better than, outdo, exceed, beat, top, cap
     "how could anyone improve on his brilliant analysis?"

God is already The MOST HIGH.

 

[-V-]

So you don't know the answer? THE Most High God is perfectly perfect; He does not have any need to improve Himself. He is eternal, so He remains at perfection.

I thought IMMUTABILITY was clear but considering OMNIPOTENCE isn't clear...

im·prove
imˈpro͞ov/
verb

1. make or become better.
   "we’ve used technology to improve relations with customers"
   synonyms: make better, better, ameliorate, upgrade, update, refine, enhance, boost, build on, raise,polish, fix (up), amend; More
   
   • develop or increase in mental capacity by education or experience.
     "I subscribed to two magazines to improve my mind"
   • achieve or produce something better than.
     "they are trying to improve on the tired old style"
     synonyms: surpass, better, do better than, outdo, exceed, beat, top, cap
     "how could anyone improve on his brilliant analysis?"

God is already The MOST HIGH.

Gosh, you have a hard time with simple directions, don't you? It's not about me understanding what immutable means. It's about you being able to simply answer what should be an easy question for you.

Yes or No - can God improve Himself, can He make Himself better?

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Gosh, you have a hard time with simple directions, don't you? It's not about me understanding what immutable means. It's about you being able to simply answer what should be an easy question for you.

Yes or No - can God improve Himself, can He make Himself better?

Did you even read what I posted?

Can God improve Himself is a paradoxical question like squaring a circle. It shows the limited thinking of man when it comes to God (you know about this, since you think ALL means MOST. Can he improve Himself? Yes.

What does that mean? Nothing. He is already OMNI - the MOST HIGH. Improving Himself would be like adding 1 to infinity.

NOW that you have a yes or no answer, let's see your trump card of trying to show me that my answer is wrong or moot - thereby destroying my entire arguments.

Because, I have an "app" for that.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

And, by the way let's be very careful about what you are demanding, and with whom you may think you are conversing.

I don't follow your direction; it is my choice to entertain you as far as I have "V." So, I would change your entire mentality on what you think is an answer - especially when you seem to marginally understand your own language and etymologia connotations...

Don't make a literary and psychological leap before you can crawl.

 

[-V-]

He remains at perfection.

So here, He's immutable and can NOT improve or change; He is "perfect".

Can he improve Himself? Yes.

And now here, He CAN improve Himself, so He is LESS THAN perfect.

You now have a God that is utterly meaningless; able to exist nowhere but in our imaginations. Sorry, but the God I believe actually exists in the real world. He's not imaginary as your definition of God forces Him to be.

And, by the way let's be very careful about what you are demanding, and with whom you may think you are conversing.

Well toot toot, Your Highness.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

So here, He's immutable and can NOT improve or change; He is "perfect".

He is immutable; I didn't say he CANNOT change. He does not - using His omniscience to judge the decision eternally.

And now here, He CAN improve Himself, so He is LESS THAN perfect.

Right, this was clearly where you were going.

He CAN improve Himself because He is omnipotent. But, it is a paradox. Improving Himself is perfection.

Let me say that again: improving Himself is perfection.

It would be like squaring a circle: it can certainly be done, but most people believe it is a paradox - which helps to understand the dichotomy. It shows the folly of human application to boundaries that exist beyond our comprehension - for some of us. Some of us understand seemingly opposing characteristics - like squaring a circle.

His perfection is His improvement; He is eternally perfect; He does not need improvement because He is perfect. His perfection is His improvement; he is eternally perfect; He does not need to improve because He is perfect...

You now have a God that is utterly meaningless; able to exist nowhere but in our imaginations. Sorry, but the God I believe actually exists in the real world. He's not imaginary as your definition of God forces Him to be.


Well toot toot, Your Highness.

You are describing your god; my God is Omnipotent - by your own admission yours is not. Is that why you don't understand any of this?

Good job trying not to be painfully cliche and predictable.

 

[-V-]

He is eternally perfect...

He CAN improve Himself because He is omnipotent. But, it is a paradox. Improving Himself is perfection.

Nope, Your Eminence, you can't be perfect and improve yourself. If you can improve yourself you are NOT perfect.

Your God is imaginary. Congratulations, Your Excellency.

my God is Omnipotent

... and imaginary.

by your own admission yours is not.

No, by my admission my God is not YOUR version of omnipotent, Your Gloriousness, my God is not absurd and imaginary as yours is.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Nope. You can't be perfect and improve yourself. If you can improve yourself you are NOT perfect.

Your God is imaginary. Congratulations.


... and imaginary.


No, by my admission my God is not YOUR version of omnipotent, my God is not absurd and imaginary as yours is.

Well, I will give you an A for effort, but it is still an F for failing to stay consistent and coherent with the definitions of your own god while trying to judge the Most High God.

Because, your god is not a "version" of omnipotent; there are no "versions" of absolutes. You are desperately trying to make the god you believe in as Omnipotent as the Most High God without actually admitting the fullness of the power thereof.

If that works for you and your god, then that is your relationship with that entity. But, as you have said several times (and even tried to shamelessly demerit my God so that He is at the same level as yours who you think is the god,) your god is lacking in power - not omnipotent.

Just accept that about your god; don't try to marginalize the Most High because your God lacks compared to Him.