God cannot be both all knowing and all powerful

[Kyx]

Of course, by being all powerful you could get close to being all knowing, but not quite. By being all knowing you could get close to being all powerful, but not quite.

It is not possible to be both all knowing and all powerful.

If you were all knowing, you would know everything, even about the future. This means that you would know exactly what you are going to do way before you do it, and you know what other people are going to do. You cannot change what you or they are going to do otherwise you would not be all knowing since you would have got it wrong. Therefore to be all knowing, you can't be all powerful. If you were all powerful, you would be able to change your mind, meaning that you were wrong, and so you are not all knowing.

 

[archer75]

Can I ask if Physical and Life Sciences is the most appropriate place for this?

 

[Saint Beloved]

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[timewerx]

You cannot change what you or they are going to do otherwise you would not be all knowing since you would have got it wrong. Therefore to be all knowing, you can't be all powerful. If you were all powerful, you would be able to change your mind, meaning that you were wrong, and so you are not all knowing.

The only thing that this thread proves is that you are *not* all knowing and *not* all powerful.

I doubt you can even fathom the mind of Vincent Van Gogh, most of us Couldn't, and that guy's IQ is only 220, barely all-knowing.

 

[Bluerose31]

Of course, by being all powerful you could get close to being all knowing, but not quite. By being all knowing you could get close to being all powerful, but not quite.

It is not possible to be both all knowing and all powerful.

If you were all knowing, you would know everything, even about the future. This means that you would know exactly what you are going to do way before you do it, and you know what other people are going to do. You cannot change what you or they are going to do otherwise you would not be all knowing since you would have got it wrong. Therefore to be all knowing, you can't be all powerful. If you were all powerful, you would be able to change your mind, meaning that you were wrong, and so you are not all knowing.

I agree. I think God is all knowing but not all powerful.

 

[Kyx]

God is God, not human nor limited to human logic.

Seems (not) legit.

 

[Saint Beloved]

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[Kyx]

Can I ask if Physical and Life Sciences is the most appropriate place for this?

Probably belongs in philosophy?

 

[Kyx]

We'll all find out eventually

Maybe

 

[Saint Beloved]

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[archer75]

@Kyx, I'm not really qualified to respond to this, but I think you'll find people here who are. Welcome to CF and take care.

 

[Radrook]

Atheists are happy to live as atheists but they seem conflicted dying as atheists. Which is rather sad

How are they conflicted dying as atheists?

 

[Saint Beloved]

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[timewerx]

I agree. I think God is all knowing but not all powerful.

I understand why you feel that way.

But there's quite a lot more at stake in the Universe. I also have my share of great difficulties, I nearly killed myself recently because of unbearable circumstances.

We don't exactly exist for ourselves as individuals. Things happen, what happens next is what do we do about it. There's a reason why God often does not intervene and sadly, we are not all-knowing enough to figure it out.

 

[Larniavc]

Of course, by being all powerful you could get close to being all knowing, but not quite. By being all knowing you could get close to being all powerful, but not quite.

It is not possible to be both all knowing and all powerful.

If you were all knowing, you would know everything, even about the future. This means that you would know exactly what you are going to do way before you do it, and you know what other people are going to do. You cannot change what you or they are going to do otherwise you would not be all knowing since you would have got it wrong. Therefore to be all knowing, you can't be all powerful. If you were all powerful, you would be able to change your mind, meaning that you were wrong, and so you are not all knowing.

I never thought about it that way.

Unless God has infinite processing power and is in fact instantaneously learning every new potential outcome (resultant from his interference with reality).

And if he is all powerful he could instantaneously 'rewind' the clock and re run reality again and again (instantaneous).

There would still be points in time (his future) that he would not have access to but from our perspective a being with instantaneous processing power and the ability to wind back the clock is functionally omnipotent and omniscient.

What I'm thinking is that he may re wind the clock enough that he knows every possible outcome and reacts with apparent fore knowledge (a bit like popular comic book character 'Midnighter's fight computer let's him appear omniscient in a punch up).

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

How are they conflicted dying as atheists?

Yes, I was wondering that. We die, and that's an end to it; where's the conflict?

It seems more logical to say that believers in an afterlife are conflicted because they can't accept that death is the end... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Saint Beloved]

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[Far Side Of the Moon]

I agree. I think God is all knowing but not all powerful.

Yeah i think so too.

 

[SeventyOne]

God already knows all things and they will occur as He has declared...

Isaiah 46:8-10 Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose​

And there's nothing too hard that He can't accomplish...

Jer 32:27 “Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?​

If anyone thinks they've figured something out contrary to this, they haven't.

 

[Radrook]

Yes, I was wondering that. We die, and that's an end to it; where's the conflict?

It seems more logical to say that believers in an afterlife are conflicted because they can't accept that death is the end... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Actually, I don't think he was referring to an afterlife. I think he was referring to the moment when one realizes that one is about to die or in the dying stages of an illness during which time one has time to ruminate about the meaning of life and what lies ahead. To an atheist it might seem as if he is about to descend into a dark void while the believer will see it as merely a transition to a better life on a higher plane. In fact, many Christian believers refer to it as going home.

John 14:3King James Version (KJV)

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 ►
New International Version
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.