God and the One-Third/Two-Thirds Problem

[Bob8102]

The Bible indicates that one-third of the angels of heaven joined Satan’s rebellion at the beginning of creation and were kicked out of heaven with him. A United Nations survey a few years ago reported that nearly two billion people in the world claim to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. That’s close to one-third of the world’s seven billion people. I am making no judgment as to how truthfully everybody answered this survey. It looks like, if you were created an angel, there was a one-third chance that you would turn evil and be condemned, and a two-thirds chance you would stay holy and in God’s blessing. But if you are born a human being, it looks like, according to the U.N. survey, there is a one-third chance you would repent and become holy and be eternally blessed, but a two-thirds chance that you would remain in your sins and be headed for hell.

Many people have problems with God and/or biblical doctrine. I understand. My own problem with God has been what I call the One-Third/Two-Thirds Problem. Because there is a law of inertia, objects at rest remain at rest, unless acted on by an outside force. Objects in motion remain in motion, unless acted on by an outside force. There seems to be an equivalent rule in life. People don’t like to change. A person who starts out holy tends to remain holy. A person who starts out sinful tends to remain sinful. If you were created a holy angel, one third of your brethren would end up rebelling against God, and two thirds of you would remain holy. If you are born a sinful human being, it’s kind of like one third of your brethren would turn to God and become holy while two thirds of you remain in sin. Statistics are that the greatest likelihood is that you will remain as you were when you first came into existence.

With that concept, it seems unfair for God to have set up the history of creation such that almost everybody is born a sinner. If He made you holy, you would most likely remain holy, If He made you a sinner, you would most likely remain evil. By this thinking, God set the odds against us humans.

I have had a problem with God because of that. But, as a Bible-believing Christian, I know there is no unfairness or injustice in God’s character. God is perfect and infinitely so. God is infinitely righteous and fair and just and wise. He did not overlook any consideration when He created creation. However big you think God is, He is infinitely bigger than that. However wise you think God is, He is infinitely wiser than that. God is infinitely wise and fair and just and holy and loving. What we don’t understand is what we don’t understand. God’s thoughts are infinitely higher than our thoughts.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

The Bible indicates that one-third of the angels of heaven joined Satan’s rebellion at the beginning of creation and were kicked out of heaven with him. A United Nations survey a few years ago reported that nearly two billion people in the world claim to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. That’s close to one-third of the world’s seven billion people. I am making no judgment as to how truthfully everybody answered this survey. It looks like, if you were created an angel, there was a one-third chance that you would turn evil and be condemned, and a two-thirds chance you would stay holy and in God’s blessing. But if you are born a human being, it looks like, according to the U.N. survey, there is a one-third chance you would repent and become holy and be eternally blessed, but a two-thirds chance that you would remain in your sins and be headed for hell.

Many people have problems with God and/or biblical doctrine. I understand. My own problem with God has been what I call the One-Third/Two-Thirds Problem. Because there is a law of inertia, objects at rest remain at rest, unless acted on by an outside force. Objects in motion remain in motion, unless acted on by an outside force. There seems to be an equivalent rule in life. People don’t like to change. A person who starts out holy tends to remain holy. A person who starts out sinful tends to remain sinful. If you were created a holy angel, one third of your brethren would end up rebelling against God, and two thirds of you would remain holy. If you are born a sinful human being, it’s kind of like one third of your brethren would turn to God and become holy while two thirds of you remain in sin. Statistics are that the greatest likelihood is that you will remain as you were when you first came into existence.

With that concept, it seems unfair for God to have set up the history of creation such that almost everybody is born a sinner. If He made you holy, you would most likely remain holy, If He made you a sinner, you would most likely remain evil. By this thinking, God set the odds against us humans.

I have had a problem with God because of that. But, as a Bible-believing Christian, I know there is no unfairness or injustice in God’s character. God is perfect and infinitely so. God is infinitely righteous and fair and just and wise. He did not overlook any consideration when He created creation. However big you think God is, He is infinitely bigger than that. However wise you think God is, He is infinitely wiser than that. God is infinitely wise and fair and just and holy and loving. What we don’t understand is what we don’t understand. God’s thoughts are infinitely higher than our thoughts.

I dont believe you have to worry about this. Scripture never indicates " one third of the angels were kicked out of heaven". Jesus Christ of Nazareth did say that few will find the narrow gate. So I suppose your figure is actually in reverse.
"Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
Blessings.

 

[topher694]

This is an entirely made up problem, not a God problem.

 

[fhansen]

With that concept, it seems unfair for God to have set up the history of creation such that almost everybody is born a sinner. If He made you holy, you would most likely remain holy, If He made you a sinner, you would most likely remain evil. By this thinking, God set the odds against us humans.

If this is the way it works I wouldn't bother with God-not much worth believing in there. As it is God's had a grand plan from the beginning, to produce something great out of His creation, to bring sinners to holiness, holy to holier, holier to a perfection that He, alone, knows well but which involves transforming us into His own image -which necessarily involves our coming to love in the way that He does. And since that love is both a gift and a human choice, it's a process. And He's patient. Anyway, I've heard some pretty dramatic conversion stories in my time-I think people are quite capable of change-with the help of grace.

 

[disciple Clint]

The Bible indicates that one-third of the angels of heaven joined Satan’s rebellion at the beginning of creation and were kicked out of heaven with him. A United Nations survey a few years ago reported that nearly two billion people in the world claim to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. That’s close to one-third of the world’s seven billion people. I am making no judgment as to how truthfully everybody answered this survey. It looks like, if you were created an angel, there was a one-third chance that you would turn evil and be condemned, and a two-thirds chance you would stay holy and in God’s blessing. But if you are born a human being, it looks like, according to the U.N. survey, there is a one-third chance you would repent and become holy and be eternally blessed, but a two-thirds chance that you would remain in your sins and be headed for hell.

Many people have problems with God and/or biblical doctrine. I understand. My own problem with God has been what I call the One-Third/Two-Thirds Problem. Because there is a law of inertia, objects at rest remain at rest, unless acted on by an outside force. Objects in motion remain in motion, unless acted on by an outside force. There seems to be an equivalent rule in life. People don’t like to change. A person who starts out holy tends to remain holy. A person who starts out sinful tends to remain sinful. If you were created a holy angel, one third of your brethren would end up rebelling against God, and two thirds of you would remain holy. If you are born a sinful human being, it’s kind of like one third of your brethren would turn to God and become holy while two thirds of you remain in sin. Statistics are that the greatest likelihood is that you will remain as you were when you first came into existence.

With that concept, it seems unfair for God to have set up the history of creation such that almost everybody is born a sinner. If He made you holy, you would most likely remain holy, If He made you a sinner, you would most likely remain evil. By this thinking, God set the odds against us humans.

I have had a problem with God because of that. But, as a Bible-believing Christian, I know there is no unfairness or injustice in God’s character. God is perfect and infinitely so. God is infinitely righteous and fair and just and wise. He did not overlook any consideration when He created creation. However big you think God is, He is infinitely bigger than that. However wise you think God is, He is infinitely wiser than that. God is infinitely wise and fair and just and holy and loving. What we don’t understand is what we don’t understand. God’s thoughts are infinitely higher than our thoughts.

Just a thought for you calculations, angels are far more intelligent than humans, only one third were deceived but angels cannot repent, because they fully understand their decisions due to their intelligence, humans on the other hand are not so smart so God allows us to repent, I am glad I am not so smart.

 

[Bob8102]

Just a thought for you calculations, angels are far more intelligent than humans, only one third were deceived but angels cannot repent, because they fully understand their decisions due to their intelligence, humans on the other hand are not so smart so God allows us to repent, I am glad I am not so smart.

As I understand it, angels cannot repent because they are/were in the very presence of God. Seeing God face to face, and choosing to rebel must be different than for us humans, who do not see Him face to face.

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Bible indicates that one-third of the angels of heaven joined Satan’s rebellion at the beginning of creation and were kicked out of heaven with him. A United Nations survey a few years ago reported that nearly two billion people in the world claim to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. That’s close to one-third of the world’s seven billion people. I am making no judgment as to how truthfully everybody answered this survey. It looks like, if you were created an angel, there was a one-third chance that you would turn evil and be condemned, and a two-thirds chance you would stay holy and in God’s blessing. But if you are born a human being, it looks like, according to the U.N. survey, there is a one-third chance you would repent and become holy and be eternally blessed, but a two-thirds chance that you would remain in your sins and be headed for hell.

Many people have problems with God and/or biblical doctrine. I understand. My own problem with God has been what I call the One-Third/Two-Thirds Problem. Because there is a law of inertia, objects at rest remain at rest, unless acted on by an outside force. Objects in motion remain in motion, unless acted on by an outside force. There seems to be an equivalent rule in life. People don’t like to change. A person who starts out holy tends to remain holy. A person who starts out sinful tends to remain sinful. If you were created a holy angel, one third of your brethren would end up rebelling against God, and two thirds of you would remain holy. If you are born a sinful human being, it’s kind of like one third of your brethren would turn to God and become holy while two thirds of you remain in sin. Statistics are that the greatest likelihood is that you will remain as you were when you first came into existence.

With that concept, it seems unfair for God to have set up the history of creation such that almost everybody is born a sinner. If He made you holy, you would most likely remain holy, If He made you a sinner, you would most likely remain evil. By this thinking, God set the odds against us humans.

I have had a problem with God because of that. But, as a Bible-believing Christian, I know there is no unfairness or injustice in God’s character. God is perfect and infinitely so. God is infinitely righteous and fair and just and wise. He did not overlook any consideration when He created creation. However big you think God is, He is infinitely bigger than that. However wise you think God is, He is infinitely wiser than that. God is infinitely wise and fair and just and holy and loving. What we don’t understand is what we don’t understand. God’s thoughts are infinitely higher than our thoughts.

A few points:

Firstly, while St. John's Apocalypse does speak of a third of the stars falling to earth, and this has historically been understood to be an allusion to the devil's fall and taking a third of the angels with him in rebellion, I'd caution against taking a hard dogmatic stance here.

I'd argue that we can confidently say that the devils/demons are fallen angels, and that the chief of these is known as Satan/the devil (both meaning "Accuser"). And concerning these we have what is written in Scripture, such as that they are openly hostile to God and to God's creation. But we should be cautious about engaging in elaborate speculations about angels and demons.

Secondly, yes, there are roughly 2.6 billion (IIRC) self-identified Christians alive today. But that only really means something in the context of statistics. Not in the context of God's work to save and redeem the world.

St. Augustine widely pointed out that there are both wolves on the inside of the Church and sheep on the outside of the Church. Does this mean that not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" will necessarily be saved in the end? Well yes, Jesus says so--He presents this as a serious warning. But it also means that just because someone is visibly outside of the Church that they are hopelessly doomed.

Thirdly, all human beings are born sinners. Each and every single one. There are no holy people, there are no godly people, there are no righteous people. There are only sinners, and Jesus Christ who came to save sinners.

The holiness of God's people is not their own holiness, but is rather that they have been made and declared holy by God's grace; it is a holiness from Christ, a righteousness from Christ. You and I are not holy, righteous, clean, or pure, or any other word we might wish to employ here. We are each and every one of us, manifestly, sinners. Sinners who sin. Who sin all the time.

So there is no one who is holy that remains holy.
There are only sinners who remain sinners.

That is, without the intervention of God's grace and love: Namely, the Gospel. Jesus Christ, God made flesh, God invading our world, and bringing with Him healing, salvation, redemption, mercy, and salvation. Destroying the powers of sin, death, hell, and the devil. And uniting Himself to us in our wretchedness and death, and thus uniting us also with Himself in His resurrection and ascension--such that by grace, through faith, we have died and been raised with Jesus, and are even now seated with Him in heavenly places--as He reigns at the right hand of the Father with all glory, power, kingdom, and dominion.

The redeemed sinner is a forgiven sinner, and also a regenerated person. The old man--the old Adam--that came into this world in bondage to sin, to death, and to the devil is that which is perishing. But by the grace of God we have become a new creation, God has given us a new man in Jesus Christ (who is the Second Adam). So we exist in this dichotomy and paradox of the Old Man and the New Man; Adam and Christ. The old man who cleaves to us, the old flesh sticking to our bones as it were, with all of the disordered passions, from which every sinful thought, feeling, word, and action proceeds. The new man, the new creature in Jesus, born again, the regenerated person (etc) is that which has been born by God's grace, created in Christ; this is the new man who lives not by sight but rather by faith, who stands justified before God not on his own account, but Christ's.

This paradox is called by the Latin phrase Simul iustus et peccator, meaning "At once both saint and sinner". It means that we are saints by grace, by the imputed righteousness of Jesus, in Christ we are holy, righteous, clean, even perfect because we live in Christ as holy and blameless before God through faith; and at the same time, we are sinners, transgressors of the Law, condemned by that very same Law, because the old man continues to cleave to us.

Thus repentance means the drowning of the old man.
But the new man is made alive by the gifts and word of God, through faithful preaching of the Gospel, in God's grace through His Sacraments.

We bury and drown the old man through repentance.
We feed and nourish the new man through faith apprehending the gifts of God.

There's no reason to speak of inertia or Newtonian physics. Rather there is simply this: "God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whosoever might trust in Him shall not perish, but have life everlasting."

For the Gospel is the very "power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Greek; through it the justice of God is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written, 'The just shall walk by faith.'" (Romans 1:16-17)

Faith apprehends the Justice of God, the justice from God, as a gift. The righteousness of Jesus Christ Himself. So that the sinner, by God's grace alone through faith, might be freely and fully justified.

Preach the Gospel to every living creature.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

As I understand it, angels cannot repent because they are/were in the very presence of God. Seeing God face to face, and choosing to rebel must be different than for us humans, who do not see Him face to face.

There is nothing that says angels can't repent.

But the repentance and redemption of angels isn't the revelation and message which Jesus Christ has given His Church. But rather to preach the salvation and redemption of men, and of the world which God made in the beginning--which He has promised to heal and make new in the end.

We preach, therefore, the Gospel.

Whatever God has in store for the angels is beyond what we can know or say--and so is best left up to God and God alone. Though we do have this word of Scripture, "Don't you know that we shall judge the angels?" (1 Corinthians 6:3), but as for the meaning of this, and how it all plays out in the end, is unknown.

We may opine that the angels may not be able to repent for this or that reason; but we certainly can't declare this is so as though it were revealed dogma. Likewise, we can't say that the angels can, will, or do repent--because again, nothing has been revealed to us.

So the appropriate answer to the question of whether any of the fallen angels may be able to find redemption is that we simply don't know.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[jamiec]

The Bible indicates that one-third of the angels of heaven joined Satan’s rebellion at the beginning of creation and were kicked out of heaven with him. A United Nations survey a few years ago reported that nearly two billion people in the world claim to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. That’s close to one-third of the world’s seven billion people. I am making no judgment as to how truthfully everybody answered this survey. It looks like, if you were created an angel, there was a one-third chance that you would turn evil and be condemned, and a two-thirds chance you would stay holy and in God’s blessing. But if you are born a human being, it looks like, according to the U.N. survey, there is a one-third chance you would repent and become holy and be eternally blessed, but a two-thirds chance that you would remain in your sins and be headed for hell.

Many people have problems with God and/or biblical doctrine. I understand. My own problem with God has been what I call the One-Third/Two-Thirds Problem. Because there is a law of inertia, objects at rest remain at rest, unless acted on by an outside force. Objects in motion remain in motion, unless acted on by an outside force. There seems to be an equivalent rule in life. People don’t like to change. A person who starts out holy tends to remain holy. A person who starts out sinful tends to remain sinful. If you were created a holy angel, one third of your brethren would end up rebelling against God, and two thirds of you would remain holy. If you are born a sinful human being, it’s kind of like one third of your brethren would turn to God and become holy while two thirds of you remain in sin. Statistics are that the greatest likelihood is that you will remain as you were when you first came into existence.

With that concept, it seems unfair for God to have set up the history of creation such that almost everybody is born a sinner. If He made you holy, you would most likely remain holy, If He made you a sinner, you would most likely remain evil. By this thinking, God set the odds against us humans.

I have had a problem with God because of that. But, as a Bible-believing Christian, I know there is no unfairness or injustice in God’s character. God is perfect and infinitely so. God is infinitely righteous and fair and just and wise. He did not overlook any consideration when He created creation. However big you think God is, He is infinitely bigger than that. However wise you think God is, He is infinitely wiser than that. God is infinitely wise and fair and just and holy and loving. What we don’t understand is what we don’t understand. God’s thoughts are infinitely higher than our thoughts.

I suspect that the fractions are relevant to the interpretation of Revelation, and not to anything else. Numbers and fractions in Revelation can be very significant.

 

[disciple Clint]

There is nothing that says angels can't repent.

But the repentance and redemption of angels isn't the revelation and message which Jesus Christ has given His Church. But rather to preach the salvation and redemption of men, and of the world which God made in the beginning--which He has promised to heal and make new in the end.

We preach, therefore, the Gospel.

Whatever God has in store for the angels is beyond what we can know or say--and so is best left up to God and God alone. Though we do have this word of Scripture, "Don't you know that we shall judge the angels?" (1 Corinthians 6:3), but as for the meaning of this, and how it all plays out in the end, is unknown.

We may opine that the angels may not be able to repent for this or that reason; but we certainly can't declare this is so as though it were revealed dogma. Likewise, we can't say that the angels can, will, or do repent--because again, nothing has been revealed to us.

So the appropriate answer to the question of whether any of the fallen angels may be able to find redemption is that we simply don't know.

-CryptoLutheran

Why doesn't God give fallen angels opportunity to repent?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Why doesn't God give fallen angels opportunity to repent?

I Corinthians 6:3 says we will judge the angels...just opening that up to discussion if not already mentioned.

 

[Mr. M]

I have had a problem with God because of that. But, as a Bible-believing Christian, I know there is no unfairness or injustice in God’s character.

Coincidence?
Zechariah 13:
7 Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
Against the Man who is My Companion,
Says the Lord of hosts.
Strike the Shepherd,
And the sheep will be scattered;
Then I will turn My hand against the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass in all the land,
Says the Lord,
That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die,
But one-third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one-third through the fire,
Will refine them as silver is refined,
And test them as gold is tested.
They will call on My name,
And I will answer them.
I will say, This is My people;
And each one will say, The Lord is my God.

 

[anetazo]

I'm not judging anyone. There's definitely something wrong with the one third who followed satan in the first earth age, Jeremiah chapter 4 to document. The Celtic word, Soddish means= stupid. Zechariah chapter 7 is about what God wants. Some people enjoy playing church. Enjoy listening to traditions of men and false doctrine. Some churches have no scrutiny with putting widows on guilty convictions and taking thier money. God wants honest and fair dealings with each other. Hosea chapter 4:7 and 4:8. Some churches have booths set up, priests practice absolution. They make money off sins. Only Jesus can forgive sins. Get the picture. Is this starting to add up??. God hates traditions of men. Why do you think God sent king nebuchadnezzar to punish judah. They lived in Babylon for 70 years. Did they learn anything. Revelation chapter 13. God will use satan as antichrist near future to test His children. The one third are here now. One third is 4 billion people. Let's be honest. How many people are ready for antichrist. Many people are biblically illiterate. Ephesians chapter 6, knowledge and wisdom is the key past antichrist lies and deception. Majority don't have gospel armory on. The one third will worship antichrist near future. They just don't learn their lesson. Revelation chapter 20. This is the millennium. We're in the spirtual bodys. It's time of teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead. At end of millennium, God will use satan to test the spirtualty dead. Any surprise. Most of the one third will follow satan into lake of fire. The one third just don't get it.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The Bible indicates that one-third of the angels of heaven joined Satan’s rebellion at the beginning of creation and were kicked out of heaven with him. A United Nations survey a few years ago reported that nearly two billion people in the world claim to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. That’s close to one-third of the world’s seven billion people. I am making no judgment as to how truthfully everybody answered this survey. It looks like, if you were created an angel, there was a one-third chance that you would turn evil and be condemned, and a two-thirds chance you would stay holy and in God’s blessing. But if you are born a human being, it looks like, according to the U.N. survey, there is a one-third chance you would repent and become holy and be eternally blessed, but a two-thirds chance that you would remain in your sins and be headed for hell.

Many people have problems with God and/or biblical doctrine. I understand. My own problem with God has been what I call the One-Third/Two-Thirds Problem. Because there is a law of inertia, objects at rest remain at rest, unless acted on by an outside force. Objects in motion remain in motion, unless acted on by an outside force. There seems to be an equivalent rule in life. People don’t like to change. A person who starts out holy tends to remain holy. A person who starts out sinful tends to remain sinful. If you were created a holy angel, one third of your brethren would end up rebelling against God, and two thirds of you would remain holy. If you are born a sinful human being, it’s kind of like one third of your brethren would turn to God and become holy while two thirds of you remain in sin. Statistics are that the greatest likelihood is that you will remain as you were when you first came into existence.

With that concept, it seems unfair for God to have set up the history of creation such that almost everybody is born a sinner. If He made you holy, you would most likely remain holy, If He made you a sinner, you would most likely remain evil. By this thinking, God set the odds against us humans.

I have had a problem with God because of that. But, as a Bible-believing Christian, I know there is no unfairness or injustice in God’s character. God is perfect and infinitely so. God is infinitely righteous and fair and just and wise. He did not overlook any consideration when He created creation. However big you think God is, He is infinitely bigger than that. However wise you think God is, He is infinitely wiser than that. God is infinitely wise and fair and just and holy and loving. What we don’t understand is what we don’t understand. God’s thoughts are infinitely higher than our thoughts.

I am always perplexed by otherwise well-versed Christians who either state emphatically or assume that 1/3 of the angels rebelled against God and were cast from heaven to become demons under the leadership of Satan. No where does the Bible state this. It has as much biblical support as does the immaculate conception of the Virgin Mary.