Glossolalia (speaking in tongues) and a theory on what really happened at Pentecost?

[ARBITER01]

Really? Gee, I thought the atonement was the central reason of why Christ came to earth in the first place.

Is that the topic that you started?

 

[The Righterzpen]

Is that the topic that you started?

On this thread, no; but if I go start another thread on the atonement; are you going to answer?

Ya know, the only thing I ever really wanted from God; was that Jesus pay for my sin; and pay for the sin of my son. Anything else God would or could give to me; I was willing to do without (still am) other than to not be forsaken by God in His wrath. God doesn't owe me anything. I just don't want to spend eternity in outer darkness. And I dont' want my son to spend eternity in outer darkness either. I've already buried too many people who are most likely going to end up there.

Though God has taken care of us through many hardships. I don't want wealth. I don't want prestige. I don't want sign gifts. I don't want to do the things Christ did. He doesn't have to talk to me and give me special revelation.

The closest thing I've ever heard to the audible voice of God was: "GET OFF THE BRIDGE!" I'd climbed up in the girding of a bridge that was several miles long that spanned a bay. The fisherman on the pylon underneath me looked to be about as big as one of those little plastic toy soldiers. I was there because I was suffering from PTSD from a war and messed up family that I couldn't get out of my head. I hadn't slept a peaceful night in like 4 months and I couldn't stop crying. I'd crawled up under this bridge because I wanted to die.

I sat up there probably for about 1/2 hour; asking for help. I didn't have the energy or the will to keep going. And I kept asking God; "What am I suppose to do. I can't keep going like this. I don't have the strength." And a thought popped into my head. "You made it through the war. You made it through the abuse and your mom's alcoholism. How much sense does it make that the nightmares kill you now?" (Well, not much I guess. But I aint got the energy, or even the desire to live.) And the answer came: "I'll give you that. GET OFF THE BRIDGE!"

I didn't argue. I simply did what I was told. I got up and started climbing back toward the bank. When I got to the point where the shore met the water; I looked down and thought to myself. What if I fall? And I heard in my head: "My grace is sufficient for you." I sucked back the tears and climbed back to the embankment. Once I got back up to the road. I walked back to my car and drove myself to the hospital.

Altogether, I spent 2 weeks inpatient, 5 week partial hospitalization and went from there to a day treatment program for 3 months. That was the closest I think I've ever been to slipping over the edge into eternal darkness.

That was almost 30 years ago now. The only thing I ever wanted from God; was to be atoned for.

I know now I have been atoned for.

That's the only thing that ever mattered to me.

It's the only thing that still matters.

 

[ARBITER01]

On this thread, no; but if I go start another thread on the atonement; are you going to answer?

Ya know, the only thing I ever really wanted from God; was that Jesus pay for my sin; and pay for the sin of my son. Anything else God would or could give to me; I was willing to do without (still am) other than to not be forsaken by God in His wrath. God doesn't owe me anything. I just don't want to spend eternity in outer darkness. And I dont' want my son to spend eternity in outer darkness either. I've already buried too many people who are most likely going to end up there.

Though God has taken care of us through many hardships. I don't want wealth. I don't want prestige. I don't want sign gifts. I don't want to do the things Christ did. He doesn't have to talk to me and give me special revelation.

The closest thing I've ever heard to the audible voice of God was: "GET OFF THE BRIDGE!" I'd climbed up in the girding of a bridge that was several miles long that spanned a bay. The fisherman on the pylon underneath me looked to be about as big as one of those little plastic toy soldiers. I was there because I was suffering from PTSD from a war and messed up family that I couldn't get out of my head. I hadn't slept a peaceful night in like 4 months and I couldn't stop crying. I'd crawled up under this bridge because I wanted to die.

I sat up there probably for about 1/2 hour; asking for help. I didn't have the energy or the will to keep going. And I kept asking God; "What am I suppose to do. I can't keep going like this. I don't have the strength." And a thought popped into my head. "You made it through the war. You made it through the abuse and your mom's alcoholism. How much sense does it make that the nightmares kill you now?" (Well, not much I guess. But I aint got the energy, or even the desire to live.) And the answer came: "I'll give you that. GET OFF THE BRIDGE!"

I didn't argue. I simply did what I was told. I got up and started climbing back toward the bank. When I got to the point where the shore met the water; I looked down and thought to myself. What if I fall? And I heard in my head: "My grace is sufficient for you." I sucked back the tears and climbed back to the embankment. Once I got back up to the road. I walked back to my car and drove myself to the hospital.

Altogether, I spent 2 weeks inpatient, 5 week partial hospitalization and went from there to a day treatment program for 3 months. That was the closest I think I've ever been to slipping over the edge into eternal darkness.

That was almost 30 years ago now. The only thing I ever wanted from God; was to be atoned for.

I know now I have been atoned for.

That's the only thing that ever mattered to me.

It's the only thing that still matters.

I don't mean to be cold or uncaring, but I'm not a good listener for people that might have complications. Never have been.

But I do have a ministry in prayer. I can spend a few weeks in prayer for you to provide some help. Jesus can use me to remove any issues that satan may be afflicting you with. I have done it quite a lot over the years. Helped clean up people that were in satanic cults.

I'm gonna leave the thread. Take care.

 

[Richard T]

I was watching some YouTube videos today on neuro-science and the phenomena of glossolalia.

Glossolalia definition:

Definition of GLOSSOLALIA

tongue… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Now here are the videos if anyone wants to watch them. This post isn't about the videos themselves though: it's about an idea that struck me from watching these videos.

Points from the videos:
1. They found neurologically that glossolalia does not trigger the language centers in the brain.
2. The frontal cortex is more active when praying in a known language or meditating then when manifesting glossolalia.
3. Glossolalia does not produce sounds that are not already known to the speaker's native language.
4. Glossolalia does change the brain. It does trigger the "executive functioning center" of the frontal cortex, as well as "regulatory input from outside" and "internal input". Meaning that people are aware when they are doing it and it's not a "random behavioral occurrence" that happens spontaneously. Someone does not walk through Walmart and "spontaneously" break out in glossolalia. It's a behavior reserved for specific places and circumstances. The learned behavior is reinforced through practice.

As I was watching these videos; I was reminded of studies I've seen of: for example; athletes, musicians, cab drivers; anyone who engages in a repetitive practiced behavior will show physical changes in the brain that controls these behavioral actions. Thus the behaviors become "auto-pilot" sequences of actions that the individual can do without specific conscious attention to. They exhibit conscious attention when learning the behavior, but perform it automatically after already learned. Yet when they stop practicing that behavior; those parts of their brain will return to "statistical norms". Having trained their brain to perform the task at one point in their lives; they can easily "pick it up" again if "out of practice".

Thus obviously this is not a "miraculous" occurrence.

So when I went to the Book of Acts; I already knew the apostles were speaking a foreign language that they had not learned. One aspect of what was recorded in Acts caught my attention though. The phrase "And how hear we every man in our own tongue wherein we were born". Well I went and looked up that phrase "wherein we were born" and the word "born" isn't the same Greek word such as "Jesus was born in Bethlehem". This word born means "the stock of" or "origin" of.

So I got to thinking about that and came to the hypothesis that technically I don't think this word "born" is referring to where people were birthed as much as where the "origin point" of their language came from. (Hold that thought a minute.)

Now Acts also indicates that what the apostles were actually speaking, was not a multitude of foreign languages; but that the hearers heard language that was familiar to them. They heard their native languages. (I.E. Greek, Latin, Arabic, Persian etc.)

Yet some people didn't hear a language that they recognized. Thus they ridiculed the apostles and said they were drunk. This hearkens back to "tongues are not a sign for believers but for unbelievers" 1 Corinthians 14:22 Now the Biblical context for "sign" and "unbeliever" is "The Jews require a sign..." (1 Corinthians 1:22) Thus "speaking in tongues" (a language that foreigners understood as their native language) was a sign of judgement against the Jews. (Jesus is the Christ (Jewish Messiah) and the gospel is going to the gentiles.)

Now back up this idea of "origin point of language" to the Tower of Babel. All current human language is derived from what ever was spoken before the languages were divided. (Let's call it "paleo-human language".) Thus what ever it was God spoke to Adam; was a known understood language by humanity; at least up until the Tower of Babel. This "paleo-human language" was a real language. It wasn't glossolalia.

So, was the language the apostles were actually speaking; this "paleo human language"? I don't know; but that seems like a logical hypothesis based on the fact that all foreigners heard their native foreign language; but "unbelievers" couldn't' understand the apostles.

Thoughts on this hypothesis?

I would maintain that the 120 all spoke in tongues. I also hypothsize that some had the gift various kinds of tongues which allowed them to speak in foreign languages, while others were unknown tongues. Thus, like most Pentecostals there is a recognition between the gift various kinds of tongues given as the spirit wills, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit, available to everyone. Since the bible does not say exactly what the "various kinds" are it makes absolutes impossible to tell, though i think those with experience in both hve some good clues. Given that later in Acts, some who got baptized in the spirit spoke in tongues while others prophesied make this plausible. Also that tongues can be spoken by choice at a meal, :you are giving thanks well enough" seems to indicate that if that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it can be turned on and off at at will while the gift various kinds of tongues is as the spirit is willing. Such distinctions are critical. When Paul says for instance "All do not speak in tongues." In context it looks like he is refering to the gift various kinds of tongues. Just a primarily Pentecostal perspective.

 

[St. Helens]

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