Giving up on Jesus

[Wolfe]

I thought about that yesterday. I smashed the Bible and throw it in the garbage can. It got really dirty. I pulled that off from the recycle bin a few hours later. I told myself if I'm gonna fight them I'm gonna need some help.

Having some trouble understanding what you mean, could you elaborate?

 

[fishyjoe]

Defining isn't explaining, explain, do not assert without explanation.

You either, suck at debating, you're trolling, or you have no reason for your assertions.
Come back, explain to me why it is tyrannical, just as I asked why it was maniacal.
And I will tell you why it is not.
Changing the definition, is just a way to dodge the question.
You post in a help forum, you have seeker as your religion, but you're not seeking anything, you're only dismissing.

Can it be not said that a God who monitor's your every thought and action. Who decides that those who do not truly love him will go to hell, is not tyrannical?

Is he not also maniacal to base such judgment on a subjective belief in him, where the believer never knows evidently Gods judgment.

 

[fishyjoe]

I thought about that yesterday. I smashed the Bible and throw it in the garbage can. It got really dirty. I pulled that off from the recycle bin a few hours later. I told myself if I'm gonna fight them I'm gonna need some help.

Fight what exactly.

 

[Zurückschlagen]

Yes, Herr @Wolfe, of course.

A lot of people destroyed my life recently. It was a lethal blow after lethal blow, when they finally hit me so hard I started losing my mind and all hope. Plus the freezing cold weather makes things worse, and yesterday my hot water was gone. Now I have to shower with cold water. Basically I endure all this pain because of the decision of a small group of men and women to take away everything I had for their own benefit. Money, my belongings, my pride.

I'm struggling to stay strong and the only thing pushing me forward is my drive to pull out people like me out the swamp and show all those Evil Spirits that all we can be much stronger if we are together and if we are not driven by the same rules they are. Greed, money, lies. Justice is driving me forward. Helping is driving me forward. Compassion is driving me forward.

And when I say Demons, I really mean it this way. For 3 months, I got ripped open by a bunch of people, who didn't work together. Just different people. Too much of a coincidence.

 

[fishyjoe]

I


I
know about what you write of. Your struggles are not uncommon. Every child of God has that familiar essence bestowed upon us from our creator.

Meh...what's the worst that could happen

 

[fishyjoe]

Yes, Herr @Wolfe, of course.

A lot of people destroyed my life recently. It was a lethal blow after lethal blow, when they finally hit me so hard I started losing my mind and all hope. Plus the freezing cold weather makes things worse, and yesterday my hot water was gone. Now I have to shower with cold water. Basically I endure all this pain because of the decision of a small group of men and women to take away everything I had for their own benefit. Money, my belongings, my pride.

I'm struggling to stay strong and the only thing pushing me forward is my drive to pull out people like me out the swamp and show all those Evil Spirits that all we can be much stronger if we are together and if we are not driven by the same rules they are. Greed, money, lies. Justice is driving me forward. Helping is driving me forward. Compassion is driving me forward.

And when I say Demons, I really mean it this way. For 3 months, I got ripped open by a bunch of people, who didn't work together. Just different people. Too much of a coincidence.

I'm sorry, people can be very cruel. But why let their cruelty determine that Yahweh is true.

Does nice things that happen to you mean that he is true too?

I've been there and the bible does nothing to stop people like that, you're right to kick that book as hard as your legs can kick.

 

[Wolfe]

Can it be not said that a God who monitor's your every thought and action. Who decides that those who do not truly love him will go to hell, is not tyrannical?

Is he not also maniacal to base such judgment on a subjective belief in him, where the believer never knows evidently Gods judgment.

There is no subjective truths for one thing, a belief in something is different.

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Everyone knows of God, but they suppress that light, because they love the darkness
Romans 1:18-19
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

Does God monitor our every thought, and action? Yea, he knows what we think, and our actions.
But does he make us do them? No, he just knows what we'll do, we still have to make the choice to do them.
The belief that God predestines people to go to Heaven, or Hell, is calvinism, and is false, because it does not line up with scripture.

We're not going to hell because we don't love him, we're going to hell because we deny Christ, the only thing that keeps us from Hell.
But, when we learn of Christ, we love him, because he loves us.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son, for whoever shall believe in him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

And I've already addressed this, God sends people to hell thing.
He doesn't, and He doesn't want you to go to hell, but, because he is loving, he lets you choose.
And by denying what has already been put inside you, the knowledge of God, you're choosing Hell.

He will not force you to go to Heaven, if you don't want to.
If you want to go to Heaven, and you pursue God, he promises you he will oblige
Matthew 7:7 seek and ye shall find, ask and it will be answered, and knock and I will open the door.

 

[Wolfe]

I'm sorry, people can be very cruel. But why let their cruelty determine that Yahweh is true.

Does nice things that happen to you mean that he is true too?

I've been there and the bible does nothing to stop people like that, you're right to kick that book as hard as your legs can kick.

You're not seriously suggesting to not believe in the bible, because there are mean people in the world?

 

[Zurückschlagen]

@fishyjoe

"I'm sorry, people can be very cruel. But why let their cruelty determine that Yahweh is true."

Ya-what?

 

[fishyjoe]

@fishyjoe

"I'm sorry, people can be very cruel. But why let their cruelty determine that Yahweh is true."

Ya-what?

Ya'whoo

 

[Zurückschlagen]

Sorry, can't understand what you're trying to say with this Ya-whatever thing. Could you clarify further? Danke.

 

[fishyjoe]

There is no subjective truths for one thing, a belief in something is different.

Romans 1:20
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Everyone knows of God, but they suppress that light, because they love the darkness
Romans 1:18-19
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.

Does God monitor our every thought, and action? Yea, he knows what we think, and our actions.
But does he make us do them? No, he just knows what we'll do, we still have to make the choice to do them.
The belief that God predestines people to go to Heaven, or Hell, is calvinism, and is false, because it does not line up with scripture.

We're not going to hell because we don't love him, we're going to hell because we deny Christ, the only thing that keeps us from Hell.
But, when we learn of Christ, we love him, because he loves us.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son, for whoever shall believe in him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

And I've already addressed this, God sends people to hell thing.
He doesn't, and He doesn't want you to go to hell, but, because he is loving, he lets you choose.
And by denying what has already been put inside you, the knowledge of God, you're choosing Hell.

He will not force you to go to Heaven, if you don't want to.
If you want to go to Heaven, and you pursue God, he promises you he will oblige
Matthew 7:7 seek and ye shall find, ask and it will be answered, and knock and I will open the door.

If everyone knows God and suppresses the truth, why do Christians say and I quote

"Until the spirit opens their eyes, they can not see the thing's of God"

End quote.

Does that sound like that we all know God?

 

[fishyjoe]

You're not seriously suggesting to not believe in the bible, because there are mean people in the world?

No, it's just easy to sugarcoat your issues with God the punisher & judge.

It makes you feel you're not going through tough times by yourself.

But it doesn't change your issues, trust me I know.

 

[fishyjoe]

Ya'whoo

Time to call a Jew on the name Yahweh.

 

[Wolfe]

If everyone knows God and suppresses the truth, why do Christians say and I quote

"Until the spirit opens their eyes, they can not see the thing's of God"

End quote.

Does that sound like that we all know God?

So, you're quoting man, to represent God?

You're trusting what man says, over what God has said?
If I, as a Christian, said, the bibles says to lie, despite it saying the opposite, does it make it true?
Is my word above Gods?
No, of course not.
Those Christians you hear saying that are false, because the bible explicitly teaches otherwise.

Or, perhaps we're miss interpreting these Christians.
The spirit, meaning holy spirit, only dwells within believers.

Those who have Jesus Christ, as their savior.

The knowledge of God is within us all, but the holy spirit is not.
The moment that we receive Christ as Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to live in our hearts. Our body becomes the temple of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit helps us live the Christian life.
Is one way to look at what these Christians have said to you.

I view it on the latter, because usually, they would say God, not the spirit.
They also distinctly separate, God from the Spirit.
There are three persons of the trinity.
3 people one God.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
We have the knowledge of God the Father, when we receive God the Son (Jesus), we also receive the Holy Spirit.
God the Son (Jesus) as our savior, and God the Holy Spirit as our Guide, to the narrow path.

Anytime, a Christian, says something that the Bible doesn't say, that means that God did not say it.
The bible warns of false prophets
1 john 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[Wolfe]

Sorry, can't understand what you're trying to say with this Ya-whatever thing. Could you clarify further? Danke.

Yahweh is the literal name of God, or rather the jewish name for him.
Just as Gott means God, Yahweh also means God.

 

[Zurückschlagen]

Oh I see now. Thank you for the clarification. Yahweh sounds a little bit like Yahoo, like www.yahoo.com, that's why I got confused.

 

[fishyjoe]

So, you're quoting man, to represent God?

You're trusting what man says, over what God has said?
If I, as a Christian, said, the bibles says to lie, despite it saying the opposite, does it make it true?
Is my word above Gods?
No, of course not.
Those Christians you hear saying that are false, because the bible explicitly teaches otherwise.

Or, perhaps we're miss interpreting these Christians.
The spirit, meaning holy spirit, only dwells within believers.

Those who have Jesus Christ, as their savior.

The knowledge of God is within us all, but the holy spirit is not.
The moment that we receive Christ as Savior, the Holy Spirit comes to live in our hearts. Our body becomes the temple of the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit helps us live the Christian life.
Is one way to look at what these Christians have said to you.

I view it on the latter, because usually, they would say God, not the spirit.
They also distinctly separate, God from the Spirit.
There are three persons of the trinity.
3 people one God.
God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
We have the knowledge of God the Father, when we receive God the Son (Jesus), we also receive the Holy Spirit.
God the Son (Jesus) as our savior, and God the Holy Spirit as our Guide, to the narrow path.

Anytime, a Christian, says something that the Bible doesn't say, that means that God did not say it.
The bible warns of false prophets
1 john 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Arggg....you all say different things, does my head in.

 

[Wolfe]

No, it's just easy to sugarcoat your issues with God the punisher & judge.

It makes you feel you're not going through tough times by yourself.

But it doesn't change your issues, trust me I know.

I know, and fully sympathize with troubles.

I know that it can seem like God is not there, in our darkest moments, I've been depressed for as long as I can remember, I've experienced a multitude of crimes against me (mugging, assault and the like), I'm in constant physical pain, because of the assaults, and some working accidents I had some years ago, and in constant mental pain, because of the ptsd I have from the crimes, keeps me up at night, tortures me.

So yes, I am intimate with suffering, unfortunately, most of us are.
In my darkest moment, about this time last year, I hated God, because I thought he hates me.
We were enemies right?
No, I assumed God hated me, because of the things in my life. And in my assumption I hated God.
I wont go into a full testimony, but basically I was a lot like you.

I am infinitely sorry that you know what suffering is, I wish no one did.
But blaming God for it isn't right. Our sin, caused our suffering, through the suffering, I came to realize we need it.
If this is a world where God is, which I believe it to be so, not to comfort me in my suffering, but to help me realize why I suffer in the first place.

Sin brought the curse of death into this world, a world that rebelled against God, we didn't want God, so we chose something that we thought to be better. Which was what The Serpent, or Satan, offered, which was the knowledge of good and evil, because with the knowledge comes the desire.
So we sinned, rebelled against God and continue to do so.
and Hell is even worse, because there is no God there.

In saying that, God did not create Suffering, or Sin.
But he allows it, because the suffering is of Sin, which is our choice, and he allows us to make choices.

 

[Wolfe]

Arggg....you all say different things, does my head in.

Exactly!
We can be in agreement here.

We all do say different things, but the point here is, we need to say what's in the Bible.
If you're saying something about God, that isn't in the bible, it's not true.
If you're saying something about the bible, and it's not in the bible, it's not true.
Plain and simple, it's as black and white as possible.