Give me a Reason.

[Epiphoskei]

Or the immorality of plucking out the speck from one's brother's eye before removing the log from one's own eye?

Isn't it strange that people being informed of sin so often assume that the informer must have a greater sin unconfessed... Is it really too hard to believe that God somewhere has raised up people more righteous than we are, such that we can be rebuked by them?

So what is a sin doesn’t ever change…unless it does...


I see….

No, a sin never changes, never. Eating shellfish, etc., were never sins, they were ceremony for ritual cleanliness.

 

[AngelusSax]

No, a sin never changes, never. Eating shellfish, etc., were never sins, they were ceremony for ritual cleanliness.

So one abomination was worse than another? Eating shellfish was an abomination, same as man lying with man. Leviticus 10:10 (and many other things were listed as abominations).

So apparently, God can make things no longer be abominable. Are we so certain that God can't continue to work to do the same thing for other things throughout time?

 

[Epiphoskei]

So one abomination was worse than another? Eating shellfish was an abomination, same as man lying with man. Leviticus 10:10 (and many other things were listed as abominations).

So apparently, God can make things no longer be abominable. Are we so certain that God can't continue to work to do the same thing for other things throughout time?

Homosexuality was singled out in the new testament as a sin, seperating it from the mere cleanliness laws. Also, homosexuality, since it is an extramarital sexual act/lust, constitutes adultery, which is a clear sin. This is what makes it a sin, as it always has been and always will be.

 

[AngelusSax]

Homosexuality was singled out in the new testament as a sin, seperating it from the mere cleanliness laws. Also, homosexuality, since it is an extramarital sexual act/lust, constitutes adultery, which is a clear sin. This is what makes it a sin, as it always has been and always will be.

It's that line of reasoning that has led to many believers being martyred, and even to the death of Christ. "It will always be this way! Now die."

Not that you're condoning killing, just that people so caught up in the status-quo, who think that God can change a rule, overlook the fact that God HAS changed rules in the past, and can do it again if He wants. Including making homosexuality not a sin, or even revealing that the point never was about homosexuality, but idolatry, because it was straight people engaging in homosexual acts for idolatrous purposes.

Isn't it strange that people being informed of sin so often assume that the informer must have a greater sin unconfessed... Is it really too hard to believe that God somewhere has raised up people more righteous than we are, such that we can be rebuked by them?

I didn't assume you had a greater sin. I don't assume there is any such thing as a greater sin, save blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (since Jesus mentioned it specifically, which he never did one way or the other on homosexuality, at least in the incarnation as we have recorded in our Gospels... Gospel writers must've not thought it that important, and here we all are, making it THE issue).

 

[MrPirate]

Homosexuality was singled out in the new testament as a sin, seperating it from the mere cleanliness laws. Also, homosexuality, since it is an extramarital sexual act/lust, constitutes adultery, which is a clear sin. This is what makes it a sin, as it always has been and always will be.

Ahhh…I get it….a sin is ONLY a sin if it convenient for you.

If its not convenient claim it was some sort of ceremonial law…if it is convenient say that despite the fact that it is listed among all the other “ceremonial laws” hath God REALLY meant this particular one to be a sin…and everyone should just trust you on that one.

 

[AngelusSax]

If its not convenient claim it was some sort of ceremonial law…if it is convenient say that despite the fact that it is listed among all the other “ceremonial laws” hath God REALLY meant this particular one to be a sin…and everyone should just trust you on that one.

I never was able to understand why the author of Leviticus (Moses) would break train of thought that way, and basically be "You shall not do this for ceremonial cleanliness reasons" a bunch, then in the middle just throw in an "absolute" sin, and then go back to ceremony...

Must've had ADHD or something...

 

[DMagoh]

...nobody in either camp will be swayed from one side to the other. So here's an idea. Let's see if we can place enough faith and trust in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, to change the minds of those who are in error, whichever side that is.

Both sides, pray something like "Lord, if I am wrong, show me the truth in an undeniable way, please, so I may better serve You." Leave the other side out of that prayer. Only pray to have yourself corrected if you are wrong, and trust that any correction necessary will indeed come in an undeniable way, at some point, in God's perfect timing.

Can we do that? Will we?

There's only one problem with that philosophy. If they lived their life and that was it, that would be one thing. However, I cannot stand by and let them try to convince others that it is okay and not sin. I cannot allow that theology to be "taught" to other persons without them being able to see the other side of the debate as well. I was not even posting in this part of the forum until I kept reading all the pro-gay propaganda.

 

[DMagoh]

Look, the big "stumbling block" here, which divides the two camps, most likely, is on why homosexual acts were forbidden in the Scripture. One camp says it is because they are homosexual acts at all, the other says that it was about ritual cleanliness/pagan worship. There were many religious circles in the times of the writers of the Scriptures that practiced homosexual activity using STRAIGHT people to try to bring about the favor of pagan gods. This is why, the liberal camp says, homosexuality was condemned--it was seen as trying to gain the favor of a pagan god, which of course is idolatry, so the real issue, we claim, is idolatry, not homosexuality.

This question is just for you - if there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, why cant anyone find anything positive in the Bible about it. The only time the subject is brought up, homosexuals are either being destroyed by God or being condemned.

 

[DMagoh]

"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22:36-40

He also said...I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:3

 

[MrPirate]

I never was able to understand why the author of Leviticus (Moses) would break train of thought that way, and basically be "You shall not do this for ceremonial cleanliness reasons" a bunch, then in the middle just throw in an "absolute" sin, and then go back to ceremony...

Must've had ADHD or something...

I also never understood where the labels for the various kinds of laws of Leviticus come from. There is noting in Leviticus to indicate that these are ceremonial laws or civil laws or spiritual laws…they are all listed as the same thing….


But it sure is fun to see people try to justify picking and choosing which of these laws to inflict upon others and which ones they feel OK ignoring.

 

[MrPirate]

There's only one problem with that philosophy. If they lived their life and that was it, that would be one thing. However, I cannot stand by and let them try to convince others that it is okay and not sin. I cannot allow that theology to be "taught" to other persons without them being able to see the other side of the debate as well. I was not even posting in this part of the forum until I kept reading all the pro-gay propaganda.

Yet you spend time trying to convince people that prejudice and discrimination are ethically OK things. And work to convince others to ignore the message of Jesus to further that goal. Why is that?

 

[AngelusSax]

This question is just for you - if there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, why cant anyone find anything positive in the Bible about it. The only time the subject is brought up, homosexuals are either being destroyed by God or being condemned.

Because it wasn't about homosexuality. That was the symptom of their idolatrousness, their complete apostasy of the one true God. They were heterosexually oriented people doing homosexual acts for idolatrous reasons.

And in the case of Sodom and Gmorrah, they were doomed for a list of reasons, mentioned by Jesus and other prophets, but none of those reasons included homosexuality. Inhospitality was one, which it would be pretty inhospitable to try and rape angels....

 

[IamRedeemed]

If you want to be a rebel, you are entitled to be a rebel. You are also entitled to receive the consequences of that rebellion.

But no matter what you say or do, you cannot change what God has created and that which he condemns.

Jesus said, "What good is it, if a man gains the whole world, but loses his own soul."

So, you can keep lobbying all you want here on earth, but God has not changed and none of the things Jesus did, made it no longer necessary to follow natural laws.

I have said it before and I will say it again. (You all like to ignore those posts)

Not only did God not make for Adam a male and a female and let him choose, He made a perfect match which was FEMALE for Adam. If God wanted us to alternate, He would have given us alternate bodies, or made us all hermaphrodites, so we could go "either way". He did not do that, and only one combination of two can be fruitful and multiply aka reproduce, and that is the combination of male and female.

It is insane, to believe that God in His infinite wisdom, if He indeed created beings purposefully to desire their own sex, that He would expect them to express their love for one another by penetrating the canal He created to delete solid and toxic waste from the body.

What kind of God would force people to do that if He created them to love whomever they choose?

It doesn't matter if you choose non penetrating activities.

Many do not that are deviate and all heterosexuals DO make love the way God intended, using the body parts He intended them to use, unless they have a mental issue.

God created male and female to become ONE Flesh. So, if that grosses you out, there is a mental issue there to begin with.

It is common sense that homosexuality goes against the nature of the bodies we are given. That is a reality whether people believe in God or not.

For those of you who do, you truly have no excuse, because not only do you have nature telling you it is wrong, God who you claim to love has said it is detestable to Him and unless you turn from it, you will NOT enter the Kingdom no matter how many smart retorts you can come up with in a debate forum.

 

[DMagoh]

Because it wasn't about homosexuality. That was the symptom of their idolatrousness, their complete apostasy of the one true God. They were heterosexually oriented people doing homosexual acts for idolatrous reasons.

And in the case of Sodom and Gmorrah, they were doomed for a list of reasons, mentioned by Jesus and other prophets, but none of those reasons included homosexuality. Inhospitality was one, which it would be pretty inhospitable to try and rape angels....

You didnt answer the question - can you find even ONE verse in the Bible that mentions homosexual sex in a positive way.

 

[DMagoh]

Yet you spend time trying to convince people that prejudice and discrimination are ethically OK things. And work to convince others to ignore the message of Jesus to further that goal. Why is that?

I dont hate you and I dont think you should be discriminated against. But, it sure is easy to keep posting that isnt it? Then you dont have to answer the REAL question.

Liberal Truth #7 - If you think someone is sinning, it means that you either HATE him, or secretly desire to do what he is doing


For a complete listing of Liberal Truths, refer to:
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35604950&postcount=412

 

[RMDY]

Seriously. Give me a reason homosexuality should be wrong. Assume for a second the Bible never ever mentions homosexuality.

- men and women exchanged natural relations with each other for people of the same-sex and perverted themselves. (Romans 2:26-27)

- God created us Male and Female for each other. (Genesis)

- Each man should have his own wife, women should have their own husband. (1 Corinthians 7:2)

- More about marriage, mentioned between male and females (1 Corinthians Chapter 7)

- The other passages in the bible center around sexual relationships between men and women. Apart from this the bible defines as perverting natural relations. (Romans 2:27).

The bible teaches that marriage is only between men and women.

Even if the Bible doesn't use the word "homosexual," the fact that it defines a natural relationship as being between a man and a women is enough to paint a picture for us on how the bible defines a natural relationship.

In Canada, marriage has been perverted just like how countries like Canada have been perverted and polluted by false religions, mediumships, psychics, sorcery, violence, and worldly pleasures that distract us from Christ.

 

[GwynApNudd]

I dont hate you and I dont think you should be discriminated against. But, it sure is easy to keep posting that isnt it? Then you dont have to answer the REAL question.

Liberal Truth #7 - If you think someone is sinning, it means that you either HATE him, or secretly desire to do what he is doing


For a complete listing of Liberal Truths, refer to:
[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35604950&postcount=412"]http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=35604950&postcount=412[/URL]

Is it really true that you don't think gays should be discriminated against?

Then you are saying that you are for same-sex marriage. You are for workplace and housing protections. You are for allowing cross-parent adoptions (and, for that matter, adoptions in general) by gays. You are in favor of gays in military service.

I'll accept that because you say that it is true, but forgive me if somehow I find that hard to believe.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

If you want to be a rebel, you are entitled to be a rebel. You are also entitled to receive the consequences of that rebellion.

But no matter what you say or do, you cannot change what God has created and that which he condemns.

Jesus said, "What good is it, if a man gains the whole world, but loses his own soul."

So, you can keep lobbying all you want here on earth, but God has not changed and none of the things Jesus did, made it no longer necessary to follow natural laws.

I have said it before and I will say it again. (You all like to ignore those posts)

Not only did God not make for Adam a male and a female and let him choose, He made a perfect match which was FEMALE for Adam. If God wanted us to alternate, He would have given us alternate bodies, or made us all hermaphrodites, so we could go "either way". He did not do that, and only one combination of two can be fruitful and multiply aka reproduce, and that is the combination of male and female.

It is insane, to believe that God in His infinite wisdom, if He indeed created beings purposefully to desire their own sex, that He would expect them to express their love for one another by penetrating the canal He created to delete solid and toxic waste from the body.

What kind of God would force people to do that if He created them to love whomever they choose?

It doesn't matter if you choose non penetrating activities.

Many do not that are deviate and all heterosexuals DO make love the way God intended, using the body parts He intended them to use, unless they have a mental issue.

God created male and female to become ONE Flesh. So, if that grosses you out, there is a mental issue there to begin with.

It is common sense that homosexuality goes against the nature of the bodies we are given. That is a reality whether people believe in God or not.

For those of you who do, you truly have no excuse, because not only do you have nature telling you it is wrong, God who you claim to love has said it is detestable to Him and unless you turn from it, you will NOT enter the Kingdom no matter how many smart retorts you can come up with in a debate forum.

Again that's dodging the question. I didn't see a single consequence in there just "well God says so". That wasn't the question. Same goes for DMagoh. I'm not asking why does the Bible say. I'm asking what consequences there are. And all I'm getting is "the Bible says/doesn't say this or that." The Bible also doesn't say anything positive about computers. So by your logic, computers are evil? I would hope not. You're typing on one.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

- men and women exchanged natural relations with each other for people of the same-sex and perverted themselves. (Romans 2:26-27)

- God created us Male and Female for each other. (Genesis)

- Each man should have his own wife, women should have their own husband. (1 Corinthians 7:2)

- More about marriage, mentioned between male and females (1 Corinthians Chapter 7)

- The other passages in the bible center around sexual relationships between men and women. Apart from this the bible defines as perverting natural relations. (Romans 2:27).

The bible teaches that marriage is only between men and women.

Even if the Bible doesn't use the word "homosexual," the fact that it defines a natural relationship as being between a man and a women is enough to paint a picture for us on how the bible defines a natural relationship.

In Canada, marriage has been perverted just like how countries like Canada have been perverted and polluted by false religions, mediumships, psychics, sorcery, violence, and worldly pleasures that distract us from Christ.

PLEASE JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION.

I don't understand whats so hard. Don't come in here and dodge the question with the petty details. ANSWER IT. Besides, you know what I mean by "mentioned".

 

[MercyBurst]

Seriously. Give me a reason homosexuality should be wrong. Assume for a second the Bible never ever mentions homosexuality. Under that circumstance, what consequences of homosexuality make it so horrible.

It's a wasted life.

Think about how it will be defending a lifestyle that more than half the people in this world don't agree with.

At social events, a gay couple is really kind of odd, socially speaking.

At family gatherings, everyone else has children and grandchildren.

The physical and mental issues are greater. Life spans are typically shorter.

Sex is so overated in relationships. Why would someone give up so much for just a few minutes of sexual pleasure?

Then when you die, what are you remembered for -- being gay?