Gift of prophecy throughout Church history?

[topher694]

That was the gift that operated through Jesus when He spoke to the Samaritan woman at the well and revealed how many husbands she has had and who the current man was she was with.

And in response how did that woman address Jesus?

 

[ARBITER01]

Notice something,...

1Co 14:6 But now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either by way of revelation, or of knowledge, or of prophesying, or of teaching?

See how revelation is mentioned separate from prophesying??

Again, these are the details that many nowadays overlook. The gift of prophesying obviously has no revelation component in it.

 

[topher694]

Notice something,...

1Co 14:6 But now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either by way of revelation, or of knowledge, or of prophesying, or of teaching?

See how revelation is mentioned separate from prophesying??

Again, these are the details that many nowadays overlook. The gift of prophesying obviously has no revelation component in it.

Don't want to answer? Ok, I will:

John 4:16-19
16 Jesus said to her, “Go, call your husband, and come here.”

17 The woman answered and said, “I have no husband.”

Jesus said to her, “You have well said, ‘I have no husband,’ 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; in that you spoke truly.”

19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.



Uh-ohhhh! There goes that theory.

 

[ARBITER01]

Let me help someone understand,.....

1) The word of knowledge was used by Jesus when speaking to the Samaritan woman.

2) The woman identified Jesus as a prophet because of His correct statement.

3) It wasn't the gift of prophesying that was used by The Holy Spirit through Jesus to reveal those facts to the woman.

 

[topher694]

Let me help someone understand,.....

1) The word of knowledge was used by Jesus when speaking to the Samaritan woman.

2) The woman identified Jesus as a prophet because of His correct statement.

3) It wasn't the gift of prophesying that was used by The Holy Spirit through Jesus to reveal those facts to the woman.

Oh no you don't. You can't interpret 1 Cor 12 one way and John 4 a different way just to fit your theory. If you are going to be hyper strict about one, you have to be the same about the other or it's just flat out hypocrisy.

 

[ARBITER01]

Let me help someone again,..

The word of knowledge stands on it's own, as does the gift of prophesying. Their attributes are not combined, nor do they ever combine.

Each gift has it's own attributes, or there would be no reason to define them, it would just be a big mess.

The Samaritan woman calling Jesus a prophet didn't somehow mean that He just spoke to the woman by the gift of prophesying instead of the word of knowledge.

I'm not sure how someone would glean that from a single word and ignore what scripture says otherwise, but hey, people write books nowadays.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What I'm doing Carl,..... is abiding by what scripture actually says instead of adding to it or taking away from it

This is a nonsense...

Ezekiel was commanded to prophesy concerning the future restoration of Israel.

37 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and He brought me out by the Spirit of the Lord and set me down in the middle of the valley; and it was full of bones. 2 He had me pass among them all around, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley; and behold, they were very dry. 3 Then He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” And I answered, “Lord God, You Yourself know.” 4 Again He said to me, “Prophesy over these bones and say to them, ‘You dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.’ 5 This is what the Lord God says to these bones: ‘Behold, I am going to make breath enter you so that you may come to life. 6 And I will attach tendons to you, make flesh grow back on you, cover you with skin, and put breath in you so that you may come to life; and you will know that I am the Lord.’”

7 So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a loud noise, and behold, a rattling; and the bones came together, bone to its bone. 8 And I looked, and behold, tendons were on them, and flesh grew and skin covered them; but there was no breath in them. 9 Then He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘The Lord God says this: “Come from the four winds, breath, and breathe on these slain, so that they come to life.”’” 10 So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath entered them, and they came to life and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army.

The Vision Explained
11 Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the entire house of Israel; behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope has perished. We are completely cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy and say to them, ‘This is what the Lord God says: “Behold, I am going to open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. 14 And I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it,” declares the Lord.’”

 

[ARBITER01]

This is a nonsense...

Ezekiel was commanded to prophesy concerning the future restoration of Israel.

But,........ did the gift of prophesying raise the dead?

Did the gift of prophesying work a miracle?

To properly understand that passage,.... without confusing the understanding and definition of each gift,..... one would have to accept that 2 gifts were brought into operation. GOD honored Ezekiel's obedience and operated the working of miracles also as he prophesied.

We can't add aspects of other gifts onto the gift of prophesying,... that is not rightly dividing the word of GOD.

 

[topher694]

Let me help someone again,..

The word of knowledge stands on it's own, as does the gift of prophesying. Their attributes are not combined, nor do they ever combine.

Each gift has it's own attributes, or there would be no reason to define them, it would just be a big mess.

The Samaritan woman calling Jesus a prophet didn't somehow mean that He just spoke to the woman by the gift of prophesying instead of the word of knowledge.

I'm not sure how someone would glean that from a single word and ignore what scripture says otherwise, but hey, people write books nowadays.

Good grief. Pot meet kettle.

As I said, this is nothing more than interpretation hypocrisy.

 

[ARBITER01]

There are 9 gifts of The Holy Spirit, and each does a separate thing according to scripture. There's not just 1 gift that operates multiple ways.

Jesus spoke truthful facts, both current and past, to the Samaritan woman. That was the operation of the word of knowledge as a big majority of Christian scholars agree.

Just because she called Him a prophet afterwards didn't somehow change what gift was operated prior to her saying that, it was still the word of knowledge that was operated.

Is it really that hard for folks to understand scripture?

 

[topher694]

And the 9 gifts can work in conjunction with one another to do whatever the Spirit wills. We see this DEMONSTRATED throughout scripture.

What is hard to understand is why anyone should listen to someone who does not flow in these gifts yet fancies himself an expert. The gifts were given for us to flow in as the Spirit wills for the edification of the Body, not for nitpicking by those who don't use them.

 

[Carl Emerson]

But,........ did the gift of prophesying raise the dead?

Did the gift of prophesying work a miracle?

You are changing the subject.

God commanded Ezekiel to predict future events.

 

[ARBITER01]

Each gift operates on it's own. Multiple gifts can be in operation at once,..... but each has it's own defined attributes,... they do not share attributes.

I can't raise the dead with my discerning of spirits, I can't discern spirits with my interpretation of tongues, I can't cast out demons with my gift of faith,... etc.

And to dispel some lies,... each gift of the nine has been witnessed within me by The Holy Spirit. Yes, that includes the gift of prophesying that someone was lying, saying that I didn't operate in.

Recently, The Holy Spirit wanted me to seek for an interpretation of tongues ministry for the body of Christ.

 

[ARBITER01]

You are changing the subject.

God commanded Ezekiel to predict future events.

I read about GOD having Ezekiel prophesy over the dead bones and they came to life. The working of miracles was operated as well as the gift of prophesying.

That was what I was paying attention to since we are talking about the gifts.

 

[Carl Emerson]

But you claimed that prophesy doesn't reveal future events and this is exactly what Ezekiel was commanded to do.

 

[ARBITER01]

But you claimed that prophesy doesn't reveal future events and this is exactly what Ezekiel was commanded to do.

I claimed that the gift of prophesying doesn't reveal the future.

Maybe you should spend some time understanding the difference between the specific gift of prophesying, and it's biblical definition by Paul, and the general understanding of the word "prophecy." They have different meanings.

 

[ARBITER01]

A lot of this misunderstanding seen here is similar to those claiming that tongues is in human languages.

We have it specifically defined in scripture,....

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

But many folks will refuse to go by what The Holy Spirit spoke through Paul over in Corinthians, and still try to say tongues is understandable because they get confused about what happened over in Acts 2.

When scripture defines something specific in one area, such as one of the gifts, it carries over throughout the body of scripture,...... because The Holy Spirit wrote all the books.

 

[topher694]

Each gift operates on it's own. Multiple gifts can be in operation at once,..... but each has it's own defined attributes,... they do not share attributes.

I can't raise the dead with my discerning of spirits, I can't discern spirits with my interpretation of tongues, I can't cast out demons with my gift of faith,... etc.

And to dispel some lies,... each gift of the nine has been witnessed within me by The Holy Spirit. Yes, that includes the gift of prophesying that someone was lying, saying that I didn't operate in.

Recently, The Holy Spirit wanted me to seek for an interpretation of tongues ministry for the body of Christ.

I have asked you countless times what your experience with the gifts is and each time the question is ignored. It was a logical assumption given the avoidance, if it was incorrect I apologize. However this vague "witnessed within me" also gives me pause. Either you have prophesied to others or you haven't.

And what is with these indirect responses? Respond directly or don't. This indirect stuff comes across as childish and is skirting forum guidelines to boot.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I claimed that the gift of prophesying doesn't reveal the future.

Sorry but you are needing to consider a wider range of scripture.

This is what Ezekiel was commanded to do...

He was commanded to prophesy concerning the future restoration of Israel. Thus by prophesy he revealed a future event.

 

[ARBITER01]

The only time the gift of prophesying is spoken directly to an individual is before the congregation by The Holy Spirit, and it will be confirming revelations that The Holy Spirit had already been showing that individual before that moment.

This is a proper definition of the gift of prophesying,...

7. THE GIFT OF PROPHECY

A. DEFINITION - The gift of prophecy is inspirational utterance in a known language which the one giving the utterance and the audience understands. The Hebrew word for prophecy means: "To flow forth or to spring forth." It also carries the same thought of bubbling forth like a fountain, or “To tumble forth." The Greek word for prophecy means to "speak for another." The term “prophecy” here can be easily misunderstood since it is used both generically in our bible as well as specifically. The definition provided here is for the “specific” gift of prophecy.

B. APPLICATION - The utterance of this gift can be discerned from three possible spiritual sources through a believer:

1) The Holy Spirit - The corporate ministry gift of prophecy is uttered by The Holy Spirit unto the assembly, and will always come in the limited framework of “Edification, Encouragement, and Comfort” as defined in 1Cor 14:3. These three attributes of this ministry will always be contained together in a message from The Holy Spirit, the crowning achievement being the Holy Spirit’s peace and comfort with the message. It is always given in the spirit of love to edify the assembly rather than condemn or tear it down. The message can be poetic, and elevated beyond the natural gift of speech, having a tangible Spiritual edification on the inside of the believer’s spirit during the message.

2) The human spirit - Prophecy that is uttered from the human spirit in the assembly is unable to edify and minister to our spirit on the inside since it does not originate from The Holy Spirit. It can possibly be negative and critical, but mostly just dry of spiritual edification. It can also be presented in the form of a lie like a false sense of security or peace, as was depicted in the 28th Chapter of Jeremiah, where Hananiah the prophet of GOD spoke peace and was condemned by Jeremiah the prophet for falsely attributing his words as GOD’s words. The LORD judged his false words as teaching rebellion unto the people against The LORD, and condemned and killed His own prophet.

3) evil spirit(s) - Prophecy that is uttered by an evil spirit(s) is subtle, deceptive, manipulative, and the opposite to the character and nature of GOD. It tries to manipulate individuals/churches to make hasty decisions, thereby causing wrong choices that take people or the church out of the will of GOD. It will be tangibly felt as a wrong check by The Holy Spirit inside of our spirit when it is being spoken. A biblical example of this can be seen in the 2nd chapter of Jeremiah where GOD says His prophets “prophesied by Baal” instead of by His Spirit.

C. METHODS - This gift can be manifested by 2 ways through a believer:

1) Corporate - The gift is yielded to The Holy Spirit’s promptings, and operated by His utterance in human languages unto the assembly in a designated ministry. The message will be limited to “edification, encouragement, and comfort” just as Paul defined in 1st Corinthians.

2) Specific - The gift is again yielded to The Holy Spirit’s promptings, and operated by His utterance in human languages, but to a specific person in the assembly, while yet under the same corporate limitations and discernment. This type of prophecy will have more encouragement associated with it, and will be describing specifics that are already known to that believer. It is given to confirm the things that The Holy Spirit has already been teaching, leading and showing the believer prior to this, thereby confirming and inspiring the believer to a greater walk and closeness with GOD.

NOTE: This gift can be stepped out in personal faith and operated by the believer’s human spirit for personal edification. This personal use of the gift by our human spirit can sometimes be operated in the assembly by a young or misguided believer, and cause much grief and division in the body of Christ, since normally the message is considered to be from The Holy Spirit when uttered in the assembly. It can be one of the most abused gifts of the nine by Spirit-filled believers if it is allowed to be used wrongfully in this manner.