Genesis Is the understanding the of Ancient Hebrews.It doesn't have to be scientific.

[lesliedellow]

Perhaps when God said...let there be light, God lit up.

Like a light bulb, you mean?

 

[-57]

Read Gen 1:6-8 and you will see that God made Adam's firmament, which He called "Heaven" on the 2nd Day. At the beginning of the 3rd Day, God put water from under the firmament, into the firmament and dry ground appeared on top of the water. Gen 1:8-9 Find ANY solid container, put water in and then dry ground on top, and the dry ground will be Flat. Amen?

????

 

[-57]

Like a light bulb, you mean?

Like a shekinah light bulb.....or perhaps that's the moment God created the angels....

 

[lesliedellow]

Like a shekinah light bulb.....or perhaps that's the moment God created the angels....

That's what comes of taking metaphor's literally, isn't it? God emits electromagnetic radiation - the latter belonging very much to the created realm.

 

[-57]

That's what comes of taking metaphor's literally, isn't it? God emits electromagnetic radiation - the latter belonging very much to the created realm.

Why would it not be literal? Are you saying God shekinah glory....is made up of electromagnetical radiation? To be honest I don't know what it is made up of.

 

[lesliedellow]

Why would it not be literal? Are you saying God shekinah glory....is made up of electromagnetical radiation? To be honest I don't know what it is made up of.

If you want it to have any effect on human eyes, as you apparently do, it has to be electromagnetic radiation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Are these theories falsifiable?

Of course, but they haven't been. A theory is not a theory if it is not falsifiable. And of course a theory is not a theory if it is ever falsified. Creationists quite often think that if a theory is falsifiable that it is wrong. What that actually means is that if the theory is wrong it can be shown to be wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No it's not a deity. That's true. It is a belief system though. Every one in the world needs a belief system about the world to function in it.
For example You must have beliefs about animals.
Do you eat them.
Can you kill them for sport.
Do you need to be kind to animals ?
and so on.

Yes, there is nothing wrong with calling it a belief system. Though technically it is more of a "lack of belief system".

 

[dougangel]

God said, "Let there be light."

Big bang theory posits that the universe came from a singularity and rapidly expanded in more or less the same pattern we see now. I believe the source of that origination to be what was called "light;" that the entire universe (except the earth) formed from God's original creation. The Scriptures make no reference to what happened on day four other than that the sun, moon and stars were there and no other mention of "light" was recorded.

The events of Genesis are referenced over 300 times in the New Testament alone. Jesus quoted extensively from the Scriptures and said that man must live by "every word which comes from the mouth of God." He referenced Adam and Eve, called Noah by name and treated the writings of Noah as the authorized word of God. If Jesus, who was there, believes in the creation, should not His followers believe as well?

A Christian needs to understand that there are some commandments given in the Old Testament that do not apply now that we are in the age of grace. What is the best way to know which commandments are for Christians, and which commandments have a spiritual meaning but that should be left in the Old Testament where they were given? The way to find that out is by studying the New Testament. The New Testament is a fulfilment of the Old Testament. The New Testament also is an explanation of the Old Testament. There are many, many quotations and references from the Old Testament that are found in the New Testament, followed by explanations of those quotations and references. Therefore, in a way we can say that the New Testament is a commentary on the Old Testament. The New Testament explains to us which parts of the Old Testament are to be kept and followed by Christians. The epistles in the New Testament are written to Christians in order to tell Christians exactly what they should be doing as they attempt to live by faith for their Saviour in this world. Nothing has been omitted or missed. The Holy Spirit did not leave anything out when He gave us the New Testament. Therefore, if you want to know if a particular commandment applies to Christians, simply look for that commandment in the epistles of the New Testament.

I wrote that in POST 12# so your not telling me anything new.
Part of Hebrew Teaching is to use the scriptures and commenting on them.
Matthew 5:
Oaths
33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all:either by heaven, for it is God’s throne;35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black.37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’;anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Think man why does Jesus say this was said to the people long ago (the people of Moses) Then he made a change.
kirk has explained this to you before.
Jesus did reference old testament scripture for teaching. I don't know where he comments whether it's literal or not. Many of Jesus's teaching's are parable's.

 

[Aman777]

Aman777 said: ↑
Read Gen 1:6-8 and you will see that God made Adam's firmament, which He called "Heaven" on the 2nd Day. At the beginning of the 3rd Day, God put water from under the firmament, into the firmament and dry ground appeared on top of the water. Gen 1:8-9 Find ANY solid container, put water in and then dry ground on top, and the dry ground will be Flat. Amen?

????

The firmament was hollow since God called it Heaven (air). It also floated as the following verse, speaking of the Scoffers of the last days, will NOT believe:

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

See? Adam's firmament was made in the midst of water and floated. God called it Heaven because it was filled with Air until God placed water in the bottom of the hollow firmament. Then He put dry ground on top of the water to an elevation of 22.5 feet at the top of the highest mountains of Adam's Flat Earth. Gen 7:20

This also confirms that God made THREE firmaments or Heavens since Adam's firmament was made on the 2nd Day Gen 1:8 and the other Heavens (our Cosmos and the 3rd Heaven ll Cor 12:2 ) were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 This also agrees with the following verse:

Pe 3:6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed totally)

This also explains WHY the first Stars didn't light up until the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 Adam's world didn't have a Sun, Moon, nor Stars, since Jesus provided the light for Adam's Heaven just as He will provide the light of the 3rd Heaven. Rev 21:23 The first Stars were made in our 2nd Heaven and NOT in the first nor 3rd Heavens.

God's Holy Word is Literally True IF you have the proper interpretation. Amen?

 

[dougangel]

Aman777 said: ↑
Read Gen 1:6-8 and you will see that God made Adam's firmament, which He called "Heaven" on the 2nd Day. At the beginning of the 3rd Day, God put water from under the firmament, into the firmament and dry ground appeared on top of the water. Gen 1:8-9 Find ANY solid container, put water in and then dry ground on top, and the dry ground will be Flat. Amen?



The firmament was hollow since God called it Heaven (air). It also floated as the following verse, speaking of the Scoffers of the last days, will NOT believe:

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

See? Adam's firmament was made in the midst of water and floated. God called it Heaven because it was filled with Air until God placed water in the bottom of the hollow firmament. Then He put dry ground on top of the water to an elevation of 22.5 feet at the top of the highest mountains of Adam's Flat Earth. Gen 7:20

This also confirms that God made THREE firmaments or Heavens since Adam's firmament was made on the 2nd Day Gen 1:8 and the other Heavens (our Cosmos and the 3rd Heaven ll Cor 12:2 ) were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 This also agrees with the following verse:

Pe 3:6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed totally)

This also explains WHY the first Stars didn't light up until the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 Adam's world didn't have a Sun, Moon, nor Stars, since Jesus provided the light for Adam's Heaven just as He will provide the light of the 3rd Heaven. Rev 21:23 The first Stars were made in our 2nd Heaven and NOT in the first nor 3rd Heavens.

God's Holy Word is Literally True IF you have the proper interpretation. Amen?

but, I actually look at a few translations now a lot. NIV is my main. Then KJVO and sometimes New King James. Or I go to that website where there are a few translation if it's really controversial

An example of this is in the creation poem day 2 is the word Firmament(KJV) vault(NIV) expanse(NASB)
The Hebrew raqia (the “firmament” of the KJV, ASV, RSV, et al.) means an “expanse” (Davidson, 1963, p. DCXCII; Wilson, n.d., p. 166), or “something stretched, spread or beaten out” (Maunder, 1939, p. 315; Speiser, 1964, p. 6). Keil and Delitzsch offered this definition in their monumental commentary on the Pentateuch: “to stretch, to spread out, then beat or tread out...the spreading out of air, which surrounds the earth as an atmosphere” (1980, 1:52).

In an article discussing the “firmament” of Genesis 1:6-8, Gary Workman observed that this word is an “unfortunate translation” because it “not only is inaccurate but also has fostered unjust criticism that the Bible erroneously and naively pictures the sky above the earth as a solid dome” (1991, 11[4]:14). Strictly speaking, of course, “firmament” is not actually a translation of raqia at all, but rather, more accurately, a transliteration (i.e., the substitution of a letter in one language for the equivalent letter in another language) of an “unfortunate translation.” Allow me to explain.

The Septuagint (a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek produced by Jewish scholars in the third century B.C. at the behest of the powerful Egyptian pharaoh, Ptolemy Philadelphus, for inclusion in his world-famous library in Alexandria) translated raqia into the Greek as stereoma, which connotes a “solid structure” (Arndt and Gingrich, 1967, p. 774). Apparently, the translators of the Septuagint were influenced by the then-popular Egyptian view of cosmology and astronomy [they were, after all, doing their translating in Egypt for an Egyptian pharaoh] that embraced the notion of the heavens being a stone vault. Unfortunately, those Hebrew scholars therefore chose to render raqia via the Greek word stereoma—in order to suggest a firm, solid structure. The Greek connotation thus influenced Jerome to the extent that, when he produced his Latin Vulgate, he used the word firmamentum (meaning a strong or steadfast support—from which the word “firmament” is transliterated) to reflect this pagan concept (McKechinie, 1978, p. 691).

In his Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words , Old Testament language scholar W.E. Vine stressed:

While this English word is derived from the Latin firmamentum which signifies firmness or strengthening,...the Hebrew word, raqia, has no such meaning, but denoted the “expanse,” that which was stretched out. Certainly the sky was not regarded as a hard vault in which the heavenly orbs were fixed.... There is therefore nothing in the language of the original to suggest that the writers [of the Old Testament—BT] were influenced by the imaginative ideas of heathen nations (1981, p. 67).
Raqia denotes simply an expanse, not a solid structure (see Harris, et al., 1980, 2:2218). Furthermore, the actual substance of the expanse is not inherent in the word. For example, Numbers 16:38 juxtaposes raqia and pahim (plates), suggesting literally an “expanse of plates.” Here, “plates” specifies the actual material involved in the expansion. In Genesis, “heavens,” not solid matter, is given as the nature of the expanse (Genesis 1:8,14,15,17,20). The original context in which raqia is used does not imply any kind of solid dome above the Earth.

Expanse wins. Firmament (KJV) wrong Egyptian translation.

That POST 68
The ancient Hebrew words interpretation means an expanse not a firmament. Firmament implies a solid border or top dome . Expanse doesn't. Therefor what you just said is based on a false interpretation of the word firmanent.

 

[Aman777]

That POST 68
The ancient Hebrew words interpretation means an expanse not a firmament. Firmament implies a solid border or top dome . Expanse doesn't. Therefor what you just said is based on a false interpretation of the word firmanent.

Not so, since you posted:

The Hebrew raqia (the “firmament” of the KJV, ASV, RSV, et al.) means an “expanse” (Davidson, 1963, p. DCXCII; Wilson, n.d., p. 166), or “something stretched, spread or beaten out”

The firmament protected Adam's Earth from the water into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8 When the windows on high Gen 7:11 were opened, water entered the firmament or boundary of Adam's world and the firmament sank, releasing the 450 foot Ark into Lake Van, Turkey, bringing the FIRST Humans (Adam's descendants) into the firmament or bounds of our 2nd Heaven.

It makes little difference whether the firmament was the boundary of Adam's world or the stretched out or beaten out boundary of Adam's world, since God called the firmament Heaven. Adam's Heaven was made the 2nd Day Gen 1:8 and our Heaven and the 3rd Heaven were made on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4

Studying the Hebrew words help UNLESS you follow the traditional ancient theories of Jewish theologians who called for the crucifixion of their own God. Jhn 19:6 This event completely discredits the Theology of Jewish Theologians showing that they did NOT understand Genesis. IF they had, Jesus would NOT have had to die. Amen?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Of course, but they haven't been. A theory is not a theory if it is not falsifiable. And of course a theory is not a theory if it is ever falsified. Creationists quite often think that if a theory is falsifiable that it is wrong. What that actually means is that if the theory is wrong it can be shown to be wrong.

Why do you think a 'bottleneck' would be evident if all the creatures, including man, included the largest, and probably the best, variety of genetic differences extant in that day? Recall that "all the families of the earth", meaning all manner of peoples sprang from the family of Noah. All manner of animals would also be possible from the stock that survived the flood.

 

[Aman777]

*** If there was a worldwide flood there would be a universal population bottleneck. There isn't one. Population bottlenecks are the exception rather than the rule. Physics tells us that there was no flood. Water coming in from "the canopy" would have cooked Noah and company. Water coming up from the "deeps" would have done the same.

True, IF the ancient flood theology was true, which it is not. The flood story as actually written is literally True IF you have the proper interpretation.

As Adam's firmament sank in Lake Van, Turkey 11k years ago, it released the Ark into our world. This completely dissolved Adam's flat Earth in the Lake as the solid firmament sank into the biggest Lake in Turkey. Our Planet was NOT destroyed but Adam's world was, exactly as Scripture details it. The problem comes because ancient men did NOT know what we know today in these last days because God hid His Truth from them. ONLY the people of the last days, with the increased knowledge available today, can possibly understand. God told Daniel HOW He hid His Truth from ancient Jewish Theologians.

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

The increased knowledge of the last days reveals the Scientific Truth which NO ancient man could have possibly known. Following their flawed Theology is the problem with understanding God's Truth in the Bible. Noah's grandsons married and produced today's Humans (descendants of Adam) Gen 6:4 with the prehistoric people who were on our Earth for Millions of years BEFORE Noah arrived. NO bottleneck involved. God's Holy Word is True in every way. Amen?

 

[lesliedellow]

As Adam's firmament sank in Lake Van, Turkey 11k years ago, it released the Ark into our world. This completely dissolved Adam's flat Earth in the Lake as the solid firmament sank into the biggest Lake in Turkey. Our Planet was NOT destroyed but Adam's world was, exactly as Scripture details it. The problem comes because ancient men did NOT know what we know today in these last days because God hid His Truth from them. ONLY the people of the last days, with the increased knowledge available today, can possibly understand. God told Daniel HOW He hid His Truth from ancient Jewish Theologians.

None of that nonsense about sola scriptura nowadays. Works of pure fiction will do just as well.

Medieval Catholicism has absolutely nothing to compare with creationists who have their backs up against the wall.

 

[Aman777]

None of that nonsense about sola scriptura nowadays. Works of pure fiction will do just as well.

Medieval Catholicism has absolutely nothing to compare with creationists who have their backs up against the wall.

Since I support what I post with the Agreement of Scripture with Science and History, sola scriptura is alive and well. Medieval Catholicism, like ALL ancient theology, does NOT agree with what is actually written. It's all a part of God's perfect plan which insures that ONLY by the Gift of Faith from God Himself, Eph 2:8 can anyone truly understand God's Holy Word. Amen?

 

[lesliedellow]

Since I support what I post with the Agreement of Scripture with Science and History, sola scriptura is alive and well. Medieval Catholicism, like ALL ancient theology, does NOT agree with what is actually written. It's all a part of God's perfect plan which insures that ONLY by the Gift of Faith from God Himself, Eph 2:8 can anyone truly understand God's Holy Word. Amen?

And make up whatever rubbish they like to go along with "sola scriptura".

Quote: "As Adam's firmament sank in Lake Van, Turkey 11k years ago"

To take just one specimen out of many.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why do you think a 'bottleneck' would be evident if all the creatures, including man, included the largest, and probably the best, variety of genetic differences extant in that day? Recall that "all the families of the earth", meaning all manner of peoples sprang from the family of Noah. All manner of animals would also be possible from the stock that survived the flood.

Because the situation you just described would end up in a population bottleneck. There is a very limited amount of genetic diversity with only the genetic material of Mr. and Mrs. Noah and that of the sons three wives. That is the genetic diversity of only 5 people at the most and we know that the human population never dropped below the thousands. The same applies to other life.

 

[KWCrazy]

Medieval Catholicism has absolutely nothing to compare with creationists who have their backs up against the wall.

We don't have our backs against the wall.
We aren't the ones attacking the veracity of the Scriptures.
We don't need anything proven to us. We have the word of God. That's all the proof we need. If we have questions, we have our clergy or the Holy Spirit to guide us.

 

[lesliedellow]

We don't have our backs against the wall.
We aren't the ones attacking the veracity of the Scriptures.
We don't need anything proven to us. We have the word of God. That's all the proof we need. If we have questions, we have our clergy or the Holy Spirit to guide us.

Somebody has had their cage rattled.