Genesis chapter 1 and reality

[Fulltruthministry]

But, you do know that the earth is a by-product of the sun, right?

No sun, no earth.

Now, I know that this is going to be met with absolute resistance by anyone who reads it, but, logically, if plants existed before our sun, then they would have had to exist on another planet in another solar system.

Based on what we know from a scientific standpoint, this is the only plausible explanation for the anachronism. If we are going to accept the Genesis account as literal, then this is the only way to make these events sequentially possible.

I recognize that this is the extra-terrestrial life theory, but, at this point, it is as every bit as reasonable as suggesting that plants were just suspended in space with no earthbound root system and no sunlight or warmth and then the sun came into being.

If life began before the sun, then life was assembled elsewhere and then seeded on earth by extra-terrestrial bombardment.

THATS NOT TRUE:
If you TRULY LOOK

The light was spoken before the sun was made to govern that light:
So the earth is a product of Gods righteousness:
Everything praises and gives glory to God in its own way:
Everything is made to survive with optimal sufficiency:
RIGHTEOUS
LET THERE BE LIGHT
A preparation for what good:
IT WAS GOOD

Thank You Jesus; dont know how i do it: SMILE:
WE just love Him so much that He teaches us according to His will and measure: BIG SMILE

 

[cupid dave]

THATS NOT TRUE:
If you TRULY LOOK

The light was spoken before the sun was made to govern that light:
So the earth is a product of Gods righteousness:
Everything praises and gives glory to God in its own way:
Everything is made to survive with optimal sufficiency:
RIGHTEOUS
LET THERE BE LIGHT
A preparation for what good:
IT WAS GOOD

Thank You Jesus; dont know how i do it: SMILE:
WE just love Him so much that He teaches us according to His will and measure: BIG SMILE

True as that may be,...

There was a long Cosmic Dark Age immediately after the Big Bang, before the stars were formed.

So genesis is right in saying light did not appear until our Sun formed out of the hot matter that was orbiting its present location in the Solar system.

 

[DanielGillan]

check out the non linear expansion, beautiful. A moving clock ticks more slowly, interesting when you look at our galaxy from the nearest galaxy, our galaxy is moving around 0.2 C (C=speed of light).

 

[Huram Abi]

THATS NOT TRUE:
If you TRULY LOOK

The light was spoken before the sun was made to govern that light:
So the earth is a product of Gods righteousness:
Everything praises and gives glory to God in its own way:
Everything is made to survive with optimal sufficiency:
RIGHTEOUS
LET THERE BE LIGHT
A preparation for what good:
IT WAS GOOD

Thank You Jesus; dont know how i do it: SMILE:
WE just love Him so much that He teaches us according to His will and measure: BIG SMILE

If you truly look, you see that the chronology puts plants before the sun.

End of story.

 

[DanielGillan]

so the sun vaporises the plants, leaving organic carbon in the Hadean layer.

 

[cupid dave]

If you truly look, you see that the chronology puts plants before the sun.

End of story.

That would be true if we insisted on interpreting the word "made" as if it was "created."

Since doing so would be tantamount to saying the Bible was wrong, we have have the other EQUALLY VALID choice, to believe BOTH the Bible and the word "made" means to be used for."

 

[cupid dave]

so the sun vaporises the plants, leaving organic carbon in the Hadean layer.

Nah....

The issue centers on the meaning of the word :a
made."

we can see that the definitions for MADE are focused on giving the authority to the Sun in regard to the Solar clock when we compare to the use of "set" in the next verse:

 

[DanielGillan]

I don't comprehend your point, so God set the Sun moon and stars in place on the fourth day, after making them. What's that got to do with introducing a massive fusion reactor to vegetation ?

 

[cupid dave]

I don't comprehend your point, so God set the Sun moon and stars in place on the fourth day, after making them. What's that got to do with introducing a massive fusion reactor to vegetation ?

?

The anti-genesis people are saying that Gen 1:14 means the Sun was not created in Gen 1:1, when all the heavens were created.


They interpret "made" to mean "create."
which it does not.

 

[Huram Abi]

That would be true if we insisted on interpreting the word "made" as if it was "created."


Since doing so would be tantamount to saying the Bible was wrong, we have have the other EQUALLY VALID choice, to believe BOTH the Bible and the word "made" means to be used for."

So, let me get this straight. You think it is valid to say that the physical sun was created on the first day....

During the Planck Epoch?

 

[Jpark]

Jpark, I think you are wrong about the rock being the planet earth, it's just a rock, but probably a big rock too big to move. From my recollection it's God losing his cool with Job cos he just lost a bet with Satan.

Notice how Job Scriptures are similar in form and structure to Psalm Scriptures. The former is not only compared to the latter but it is either equated, similar, or opposite (Job 38:19) with the latter:

Job “The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Job “I thought age should speak,
And increased years should teach wisdom.
“But it is a spirit in man,
And the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding.

Job When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Job “Have you entered into the springs of the sea
Or walked in the recesses of the deep?

Job “Who has put wisdom in the innermost being
Or given understanding to the mind?

Psalm His tabernacle is in Salem; His dwelling place also is in Zion.

Psalm Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?

Psalm Do not cast me away from Your presence
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

Psalm He made the moon for the seasons;
The sun knows the place of its setting.

Psalm You hide Your face, they are dismayed;
You take away their spirit, they expire
And return to their dust.
You send forth Your Spirit, they are created;
And You renew the face of the ground.

Job “If He should determine to do so,
If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath,
All flesh would perish together,
And man would return to dust.

So I ask you again, what is Job 18:4 saying?

Job 18:4 “O you who tear yourself in your anger— For your sake is the earth to be abandoned, Or the rock to be moved from its place?

In this case, 'the rock' either refers to the earth or to a similar body.

Besides, I was suggesting that 'the rock' refers to the moon. From my recollection, the moon is supposed to be drifting further from earth. And that could prove disastrous. Likewise, the sun is aging.

And no, God was never angry at Job. It was disciplinary rebuke. And no, He was not challenged by Satan. And there was no bet. Clearly it was testing Job, God's decision, and God had Satan do it. Who called the sons of God to Him? I don't recall Scripture saying anything about appointments. Clearly God calls them to Him or they couldn't come before Him.

 

[timbo3]

I never said the bible is science fiction. I said that your explanation regarding the physical world and the events you gave were.

Lush vegetation creating the oxygen for animals, for example.

Lush vegetation had to exist (on the 3rd "creative" day, Gen 1:11-13) before animals were created, starting on the 5th "creative" day. Not only was it necessary for oxygen, but is food that all animals must have. Tiny microscopic plants called phytoplankton (or algae) in the oceans produces between 70 to 80 percent of the oxygen, leaving about 20 to 30 percent for green vegetation on land to make. Just as a house is built in an orderly arrangement, starting with the foundation, and then the walls, the roof, wiring, plumbing, etc, so likewise the earth's creation went forth in an orderly manner.(1 Cor 14:33)

Animals were created only after the earth was capable of sustaining life (otherwise all the animals would immediately die), with Genesis 1:20-23 saying: "And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.” And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day."

 

[cupid dave]

Lush vegetation had to exist (on the 3rd "creative" day, Gen 1:11-13) before animals were created, starting on the 5th "creative" day. Not only was it necessary for oxygen, but is food that all animals must have. Tiny microscopic plants called phytoplankton (or algae) in the oceans produces between 70 to 80 percent of the oxygen, leaving about 20 to 30 percent for green vegetation on land to make. Just as a house is built in an orderly arrangement, starting with the foundation, and then the walls, the roof, wiring, plumbing, etc, so likewise the earth's creation went forth in an orderly manner.(1 Cor 14:33)

Animals were created only after the earth was capable of sustaining life (otherwise all the animals would immediately die), with Genesis 1:20-23 saying: "And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.” And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good. With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters in the sea basins, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a fifth day."

2X.

An important matter for Christian readers to understand is that science has created 6 classes of Plant and Animal life.

What was initially the Plant Kingdom and the Animal Kingdom separated all living creatures based upon whether their individual Cells composing them had a Cell Wall (plants), or no Cell Wall, animals).

It became useful to them, as they found other reasons to further distinguish new found species, to make more kingdoms.

Nevertheless, these kingdoms do not infer that living organisms are other than plants or animals.
The new classifications are solely based on additional and unique other variables useful to sort what are essentially still animals and plants from each other.

For example, Bacteria which have Cell Walls, were always included within the Plant Kingdom.
However, it was discovered that a number of animals not only have Cell Walls, but are absent nuclear membranes.
Hence, a new kingdom for these types of creatures seems useful.

 

[Huram Abi]

Lush vegetation had to exist (on the 3rd "creative" day, Gen 1:11-13) before animals were created, starting on the 5th "creative" day. Not only was it necessary for oxygen, but is food that all animals must have. "

This is incorrect. Cyanobacteria oxygenated the earth.

Animals can live off of fungus, bacteria, and each other.


Plants were neither necessary for oxygen or a foodsource that primitive microorganisms needed in order to feed.

 

[Huram Abi]

2X.

It might be time to find a less antiquated graphic. This picture has fungi listed as branching off of plants. We've known that fungi are not plants for quite a while.

DNA tests have recently revealed fungi to be closer to human DNA than to any plant gene sequences.

 

[cupid dave]

This is incorrect. Cyanobacteria oxygenated the earth.

Animals can live off of fungus, bacteria, and each other.


Plants were neither necessary for oxygen or a foodsource that primitive microorganisms needed in order to feed.

Such nonsense to invent life that is not plant or animal simply by deciding that we can place all plants and animals into six categories made up by men who have not universally agree to six kingdoms, even.

It is patently clear that bacteria have cell Walls, as do Algae.
No other type of organism has cell Walls.


What scientist have REALLY done is remove bacteria from the Plant Kingdom classification into a special place for plants that have no nuclear membrane.

 

[DanielGillan]

Jpark, from my recollection God called his sons, and Satan came also. God asked Satan have you seen my servant Job ? he's pretty good. Satan says something like I bet I can make him curse you, and God says go on then, have a go, but don't harm him personally. This goes on a few times till God lets Satan harm Job personally, which is when Job curses the day he was born, which is when God turns up angry, and throws a torrent of words at Job like where were you when your great great granddad was in nappies.
So Job 18:4 is saying, something like "Job you [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], I just lost a bet because of you, you are so insignificant, don't go thinking you are something big."

 

[cupid dave]

It might be time to find a less antiquated graphic. This picture has fungi listed as branching off of plants. We've known that fungi are not plants for quite a while.

DNA tests have recently revealed fungi to be closer to human DNA than to any plant gene sequences.

You probably know, but forget to mention that these six kingdom arrangements are artificial and simply subjective ways of sorting the various life forms, rather than telling us whether bacteria of fungi are this or that.

RIGHT???

 

[underheaven]

This is the geological divisions that paleontologists use.

There is no "but in time." They still recognize and use the Phanerozoic Eon.

Your "six layers" claim has been debunked numerous times by several people now, but you just keep crying "wolf."

We're learning now just to ignore you.

You are a very rude person.Every one of your posts is personally derogative,and dripping with sarcasm.

 

[underheaven]

I have a Masters degree in physics, and you probably wouldn't understand the proof. We can date the universe, the Earth, and the sun. You can readily find this information online. The expansion of the universe is also proven, these are real physically measurable proofs. However if we take the firmament (expansion) as the point of origin of the universe, it changes the maths, and a day becomes around 2.75 Giga years, and the sun was created 0.96 Giga years into the 5th day. Interestingly, the sun is about the same age as the earth.
Oh, and God rested on the seventh day! If you don't believe the bible, why profess to believe it ?

It's excellent that people like you Monsieur Gillan are now coming on forums like this to talk about science and religion in the same dicussion.For so long now [more particularly since Darwin ] one has had to choose one or other,and as a result not a great deal of real progress has been made to understand, that they are just 'facets' of Creation,not mutually destructive.