Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

[-57]

I don't---God does. He doesn't even need that long. You need to get to know your God. Not the ideas of men.
Psa 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

in support of your post...in post 92 I had said:
The following is another example of rapid plant growth...Jonah 4:6 Now the LORD God appointed a plant and made it come up over Jonah, that it might be a shade over his head, to save him from his discomfort. So Jonah was exceedingly glad because of the plant.

 

[mmksparbud]

On the surface that's a good argument...but...there was the "let there be light" that could have supported plant growth.

For a 1000 years?---that was what is referred to as "invisible light" you can read about it. Invisible to man, not to God. That was needed only for 24 hours. I don't know what God you all worship, but mine made the earth and everything in it in 6 days. He is not some weak, pathetic, creature that takes Him 1000's of years to create something.
Psa 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

 

[-57]

For a 1000 years?---that was what is referred to as "invisible light" you can read about it. Invisible to man, not to God. That was needed only for 24 hours. I don't know what God you all worship, but mine made the earth and everything in it in 6 days. He is not some weak, pathetic, creature that takes Him 1000's of years to create something.
Psa 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

I agree with you...six days.

Genesis is silent on what the "let there be light" was.

Perhaps this was the light...Rev 21:23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp.

 

[mmksparbud]

I agree with you...six days.

Genesis is silent on what the "let there be light" was.

Perhaps this was the light...Rev 21:23 And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, because the glory of God illuminates the city, and the Lamb is its lamp.

Could have been--it was and it wasn't---He did not need to create that light. He created some light, obviously not sunlight.

 

[joshua 1 9]

the biology book also says if you die, you don't come back to life on day 3

Science has studied the evidence and they have no comment one way or the other. They were claiming that someone stole the body of Jesus. We have the shroud of Turin and science has examined that. The American Journal of Medicine did an article by a forensic scientist. It is all very interesting but the scientific evidence is not conclusive one way or the other. One issue with miracles is that everything is restored to the way God created it to be. So there really is no evidence that there was ever an issue that needed a miracle.

There is abundant overwhelming evidence for Theistic Evolution. Evidence that God clearly provides for us to examine. He wants us to know. He imprinted His creation with evidence of How He did what He did. Of course science does not tell us why. The Bible tells us why. Science tells us how God does what He does. My father was a doctor and I was disappointed that so often Science does NOT have answers and solution to lots of stuff. God ALWAYS has answers and solutions. This is why I became a Christian. The Bible goes way beyond what we could do with Just Science.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I find that argument neutral.

Oh yeah, that actually is Gerald Schroeder. He has a PhD from MIT. He is the only one that can produce any sort of a plausible Old Earth Creationism theory. He has an interesting way of looking at time. This has to do with physics and this is a very exact science. I studied more about the Physics of light when I was in college. I have not studied the physics of time as much as Schroeder has. He bases a lot of that on Einsteins theory of relativity. There is an observer effect, but mostly what we observe is based on our vantage point. If we are looking back or forward or some where in the middle.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

 

[-57]

Science has studied the evidence and they have no comment one way or the other. They were claiming that someone stole the body of Jesus. We have the shroud of Turin and science has examined that. The American Journal of Medicine did an article by a forensic scientist. It is all very interesting but the scientific evidence is not conclusive one way or the other. One issue with miracles is that everything is restored to the way God created it to be. So there really is no evidence that there was ever an issue that needed a miracle.

Are you saying Jesus didn't raise from the dead?

There is abundant overwhelming evidence for Theistic Evolution. Evidence that God clearly provides for us to examine. He wants us to know. He imprinted His creation with evidence of How He did what He did. Of course science does not tell us why. The Bible tells us why. Science tells us how God does what He does. My father was a doctor and I was disappointed that so often Science does NOT have answers and solution to lots of stuff. God ALWAYS has answers and solutions. This is why I became a Christian. The Bible goes way beyond what we could do with Just Science.

If Theistic Evolution is true...when did mankind sin? When they were neanderthals? How did mankind sin and fall? Did mankind receive a sin mutation? Why did mankind sin? Did everybody wake up one morning with a sin nature? Where did mankind sin? Apparently it wasn't in the Garden of Eden.....these are all questions you can't answer

 

[joshua 1 9]

Adam were placed in the garden on day 6.

There is only 31 verses, so really there is no excuse for you to ignore what is written. Do you remember when we were kids and they had that magazine where there were 2 identical photos only there were things that was different about them. Read Genesis chapter one and then read Genesis chapter two and look at what is different. The whole story is in these three chapters. How difficult is it to read three chapters and really study them?

The Sixth Day Genesis chapter one: 27So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.” 29Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every seed-bearing plant on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit contains seed. They will be yours for food.

First of all we have this male female thing. NO reason to go into that right now. Then we have the: "fill the earth and subdue it". The KJV says: "replenish the earth". If we go back to Genesis 1:2 we read: "the earth was formless and empty". Most people agree that this means the Earth was in a state of ruin, thus there was need to replenish the Earth. Theistic Evolution says that there have been 6 major extinctions and then they were followed by population explosions or radiations. So that is what we have here. There was a extinction followed by an explosion and so they were told to "replenish" the Earth. This is not EDEN this is the WHOLE EARTH. These people are what we call Hunter Gathers. They have spears, then have arrows, eventually they have fishing hooks and fishing nets and they have sowing needles. They know how to make clothing. Don't fall for the fig leaf nonsense. What we see is that they take the fiber from the fig tree spin it into thread and weave the thread into cloth and then they sow the cloth together into clothing. People have been doing this for at least 20,000 years. LONG before Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago. Man was told to RULE OVER the fish, birds and every creature. To rule means to reigh to have dominion, rule, dominate. We could go into the meaning of the word more but this is enough. The Hebrew word: רָדָה has three letters. Those letters are symbols so we could study the meaning of those three symbols to understand deeper the meaning of the word. The first letter means to be head or highest person, the next letter is a dalet and this represents door. Think of your local bar and there is a bounder at the door. He controls who goes in that door and he controls who get throw out of the establishment. The last letter means to behold, look at me. This is a picture of someone with his hands waving in they air saying here I am.

We ONLY need 32 verses because this is all infinite and we could go on forever to find new things that God is telling us about day 6. Now lets look at Adam and Eve and search out what is different. We are told that: Genesis 2:8 "Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed". Let me tell you about Eden. This was ancient Mesopotamia. This was an area between the Tigris and Euphrates river. There was actually 4 rivers there only today 2 of them are dried up. Still we can see where they are on Google space photos. We can use the Google photos to get a pretty good idea of where Eden was. Today Eden is UNDER the Persian Gulf. The flood of Noah took place when the Persian Gulf was formed. We know that Noah entered the ark in his six hundredth year. According to James Ussher's chronology, Creation took place in 4004 BCE, dating the Great Deluge to 2348 BCE.

Do you see what I am saying here? There is a BIG difference between the man in Genesis Chapter one and Adam in Chapter two. There is a huge amount of information in history and in science about this. There were actually two differnert groups of people living in Ancient Mesopotamia at the time. There were quite a few people alive back when Adam and Eve were in the Garden. Cain was very concerned about this when God punished him for killing his bother. In Genesis 4:14 "Behold, this day You have driven me from the face of the earth, and from Your face I will be hidden; I will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” Clearly we have more then Adam, Eve & Cain because he was worried that someone would find him and kill him.

There is NO contradiction between Science, History & the Bible. I have spent many years to read and study and verify all of that. So lets go over this one more time. In Genesis 2:15 "The LORD God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it". In Genesis 1:28 we read: "2God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it". Do we see a different between "fill the earth and subdue it" and "tend the Garden"? If people do not notice this then there reading of the Bible is far to superficial. Eden was a biodiverse eco system. This is where domesticated or faming animals began. The animals that Noah saved on the Ark were farming animals. This was the beginning of the civilized world. In Genesis 3:16 we see the word 'Husband". Even today in the universities they teach "animal husbandry". In the south back in the days of slavery they use to breed people they way they been animals. There were traits that they favored like the abilty to play a instrament or the ability to sing. There were pretty girls called fancy girls that they use to select. This was mostly in Lexington Ky. All of this began when Adam and Eve fell and took mankind with them. When in Chapter 3 Eve was deceived by the Serpent to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

You only have three chapters here. The rest of the Bible builds on these three chapters. Science has a lot to tell us about Adam and Eve. Bishop Usher has a lot to tell us. Science and the good Bishop confirms for us how accurate and true the Bible is.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Are you saying Jesus didn't raise from the dead?

Where did you get that from? The resurrection power of God is already at work in us. Everyone agrees on the resurrection, there is no issue there.

If Theistic Evolution is true...when did mankind sin?

In Genesis chapter three when the serpent deceived Eve into eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Calvanism and LDS base their religion on their understanding of the story of Eve and the Serpent. I can not help you with chapter three. We are working on chapter one and chapter 2 and the difference between the garden of Eden in chapter two and man being given dominion over the whole world in chapter one. In Rev 20:2 " He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." We are VERY close to when this is going to happen. I can even give you a year 2036.

 

[mmksparbud]

Read Genesis chapter one and then read Genesis chapter two and look at what is different. The whole story is in these three chapters. How difficult is it to read three chapters and really study them?

Not hard at all---I suggest you do so. These are not different accounts of different creations, they are the same story. Gen 1 is in chronological order, gen 2 is not. It is a common way of Jewish writing. Your God is not the God of the bible, but out of the mind of men. Mine created in 6 days. No need to embellish the truth. He is powerful and an awesome God. I hope one day you will meet Him.

 

[coffee4u]

What you need to do is to study science and ancient history. I have studied both for over 50 years now. Just when do you think this 6th day was?

Science is only man's attempt at answers by testing the current world. I have no idea where you get this eight-day from but certainly not from scripture. I do not believe any science, person or teaching that disagrees with the Bible.

As to the days being long periods of time, Adam died 930 years after he was created.

Not to say the creation could not be a shadow of something else as well. The Bible has plenty of that, but that doesn't change the actual order or timing of creation itself though.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Science is only man's attempt at answers by testing the current world.

That is not Science. There is a scientific method to determine what is true and what is not true. There are lots of things that Science can not make a determination one way or the other. Science gets it right because if they do not get it right then people die. There are people who claim to represent science and they don't. Plenty of them, but that is NOT science.

I see what you are guilty of now because you just told on yourself. When we try to pass judgement on others we only end up passing judgement on ourselves.

I have no idea where you get this eight-day from but certainly not from scripture.

That is exactly where I get it from, scripture and 30 years worth of study of the Bible. The Bible says a day is 1,000 years.

"Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2Peter3:8)

"For in Your sight a thousand years are but a day that passes". (Psalm 90:4)

You just go through saying Adam lived to be 930 years. Yet we are told ON THE DAY he ate from the tree of life he would die: "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis2:17)

Adam should have lived 1,000 years but According to midrashim, Adam gave up 70 years of his life for the life of David. So he lived 930 years.

 

[mmksparbud]

That is not Science. There is a scientific method to determine what is true and what is not true. There are lots of things that Science can not make a determination one way or the other. Science gets it right because if they do not get it right then people die. There are people who claim to represent science and they don't. Plenty of them, but that is NOT science.

I see what you are guilty of now because you just told on yourself. When we try to pass judgement on others we only end up passing judgement on ourselves.

That is exactly where I get it from, scripture and 30 years worth of study of the Bible. The Bible says a day is 1,000 years.

"Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2Peter3:8)

"For in Your sight a thousand years are but a day that passes". (Psalm 90:4)

You just go through saying Adam lived to be 930 years. Yet we are told ON THE DAY he ate from the tree of life he would die: "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis2:17)

Adam should have lived 1,000 years but According to midrashim, Adam gave up 70 years of his life for the life of David. So he lived 930 years.

This is bible theories gone amuck. The bible does not say

The Bible says a day is 1,000 years.



"Beloved, do not let this one thing escape your notice: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." (2Peter3:8)

"For in Your sight a thousand years are but a day that passes". (Psalm 90:4)

You quoted yourself what it actually says---"To God" a day is as a 1000 days--- Which comes in handy for prophecies. However, God gave us the sun, moon and stars

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

He gave us OUR TIME CYCLES---He set us up to use days, weeks, months and years and seasons---here, we do not go by God's time, but the time He set up for us to use. And He uses this time in our prophecies also. Days can represent years when talking prophetic times He in no way set up a time cycle for us that includes a day is as a thousand years. That only applies to Him. For even in the new earth, there will be time kept according to this world---

sa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.


It says there will be no need of the sun for Christ is our light---but it does not say there will not be any sun at all. It will still be there and so will the moon.

 

[coffee4u]

That is not Science. There is a scientific method to determine what is true and what is not true.

Science & the Scientific Method: A Definition | Live Science
The steps of the scientific method go something like this:

1. Make an observation or observations.
2. Ask questions about the observations and gather information.
3. Form a hypothesis — a tentative description of what's been observed, and make predictions based on that hypothesis.
4. Test the hypothesis and predictions in an experiment that can be reproduced.
5. Analyze the data and draw conclusions; accept or reject the hypothesis or modify the hypothesis if necessary.
6. Reproduce the experiment until there are no discrepancies between observations and theory. "Replication of methods and results is my favorite step in the scientific method," Moshe Pritsker, a former post-doctoral researcher at Harvard Medical School and CEO of JoVE, told Live Science. "The reproducibility of published experiments is the foundation of science. No reproducibility – no science."

And the methods have to use what the world provides them, whether it's gravity, wind, water or something else. It has to exist in the here and now to be used. It may determine what is true to the world we have now, but the world God created ran on a number of different principles and laws and it isn't here to test.

Life from nothing or fish changing into animals or dinosaurs into birds has never been reproduced or observed no matter how many times they say it's true.

 

[mmksparbud]

Science is the pursuit and application of knowledge and understanding of the natural and social world following a systematic methodology based on evidence.

Scientific methodology includes the following:

• Objective observation: Measurement and data (possibly although not necessarily using mathematics as a tool)
• Evidence
• Experiment and/or observation as benchmarks for testing hypotheses
• Induction: reasoning to establish general rules or conclusions drawn from facts or examples
• Repetition
• Critical analysis
• Verification and testing: critical exposure to scrutiny, peer review and assessment

If it can not be repeated and thus verified---it is not science fact---it is theory.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Life from nothing

Evolution says nothing about life from nothing. There is overwelming evidence that the earth is billions of years old. That does not conflict with the Bible because we still find Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden 5990 years ago. Bishop Usher uses the date 4004 BC. There is no reason to question that date.

Kabbalah tells us that temporal life comes from eternal life. We are finite. The universe started out as hydrogen. helium, lithium, beryllium. All the other elements were created out of those four. (118 elements) Each element burns at a different color, so they can all be observed in the stars. Most of the elements are created in a star. So the universe did not start out with nothing. But the universe is a closed system now.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If it can not be repeated and thus verified---it is not science fact---it is theory.

Yes exactly, true science and the Bible agree. There is no conflict between them. The Bible itself does contain paradigms.

 

[joshua 1 9]

However, God gave us the sun, moon and stars

The moon makes the earth a very unusual situation. It is because of the moon that we have seasons. It is because of the moon that our weather changes. The system is very fine tuned. I have friends that work in a factory that have to work within a millionth tolerance. Most everything in the universe works off of what they call the golden ratio. This maintains balance and precision. In math we have prime and composite numbers. Some numbers can not be generated from smaller numbers. This shows us that they were created in their present state. They can only be divided by themselves and one. We know that God is a Singularity. So we have all the proof and evidence that we need.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yes exactly, true science and the Bible agree. There is no conflict between them. The Bible itself does contain paradigms.

There is no scientific proof--that is repeatable, for evolution. That is why it is called a theory and nothing to suggest that God did anything but what He says He did---create the world in 6 days. He reiterated it in the 4th commandment given at Mt. Zion.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You can believe anything you want---I will believe God.

 

[mmksparbud]

The moon makes the earth a very unusual situation. It is because of the moon that we have seasons. It is because of the moon that our weather changes. The system is very fine tuned. I have friends that work in a factory that have to work within a millionth tolerance. Most everything in the universe works off of what they call the golden ratio. This maintains balance and precision. In math we have prime and composite numbers. Some numbers can not be generated from smaller numbers. This shows us that they were created in their present state. They can only be divided by themselves and one. We know that God is a Singularity. So we have all the proof and evidence that we need.

As I said---they are for us to keep our time---not God's timing. He gave us our timing. And His creation is not 1000 years to a day.