Genesis and Creation, Days are long "ages" ect...?

[Neogaia777]

That is what the PhD's tell us. They are the experts on that stuff. I do not see any contradiction with the Bible in this regards.

Well, you should develop your own ideas and use your own powers of observation, even when it comes to people with "PhD's", etc...

God Bless!

 

[mmksparbud]

Adam and Eve were real, literal people that lived in a real Garden of Eden on on October 23 4004 BC at 9:00 A.M . From your perspective when was the 7th day that God rested? Do you think that the 7th day was October 24 4004 BC? Did God create Adam and Eve fully formed at what age were they when He created them? Was it after they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that they began to age and die?

So you are saying that the creation week was October 18, 19, 20, 21, 22? What about Science and what they tell us about how the earth was created and the beginning of the earth was billions of years ago?

October 23 at 9am??? Seriously? You've wasted a whole lot of time reading a bunch or ridiculous junk.
I go by the bible. It says 6 days and that is what I will believe. Both of us will see God face to face one day---He will decide who is correct, your science or His word.

God created them fully formed and fully functional---in fact the original word is not that He saw everything and it was good---the word is "functional." They had inherent age and knowledge and I believe they were total savants, God doesn't make junk. They had perfect brains. It doesn't say how old anything was that He made, nor how many rings the trees had, if any or how old the rocks were. And they began to age and die after they were removed from the tree of life.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

You have the right to believe whatever you want--as do I---I choose the bible, you may choose whomever you want.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You have the right to believe whatever you want--as do I---I choose the bible, you may choose whomever you want.

I choose to believe all of what God gives us. NOT JUST the Bible. Esp when you have failed to show that there is any conflict between Science and the Bible. It is ok for science to give you a car to drive. It is ok for science to give you a home to live in. It is ok for Science to give you medicine when you are sick. But when Science tells you that there were men and women on this earth before Adam and Eve then all of a sudden you draw a line in the sand and want to have nothing to do with Science.

Why don't we take Cheddar man for example: Cheddar Man - Wikipedia We are told that He lived 5,000 years before Adam and Eve. How do you explain that? Do you think that Science messed up and they got the age of Cheddar man wrong somehow? Even Cheddar man has a living relative today that lives in the same area of England that he lived in. A area that is known for there Cheddar cheese.

 

[mmksparbud]

I choose to believe all of what God gives us. NOT JUST the Bible. Esp when you have failed to show that there is any conflict between Science and the Bible. It is ok for science to give you a car to drive. It is ok for science to give you a home to live in. It is ok for Science to give you medicine when you are sick. But when Science tells you that there were men and women on this earth before Adam and Eve then all of a sudden you draw a line in the sand and want to have nothing to do with Science.

Why don't we take Cheddar man for example: Cheddar Man - Wikipedia We are told that He lived 5,000 years before Adam and Eve. How do you explain that? Do you think that Science messed up and they got the age of Cheddar man wrong somehow? Even Cheddar man has a living relative today that lives in the same area of England that he lived in. A area that is known for there Cheddar cheese.

You need to do more research on carbon dating. It relies on the environment being the same today as it was 40,000 million years ago---no creationist will believe that the earth's atmosphere is the same today as it was during creation. It was totally different at creation and again after the flood.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Well, you should develop your own ideas and use your own powers of observation, even when it comes to people with "PhD's", etc...

I do. There are days I spend up to 18 hours to read and study and learn this stuff. I am learning right here and right now. I am just sharing with people my research and what I am learning. There is new information about this stuff all the time. So every time we talk about it we have to do a fresh search to find out what all the recent information is about the subject. They knew almost nothing about DNA 50 years ago when I was in High School. Now they have come a long way and learned a lot. Lots of research goes into this so we learn more and new information every day. I see people here offering opinions but they do very little work and very little research to verify if what they believe is actually true or not. My dad was a medical doctor. People did not want opinions from him. They wanted something that would help them with the issues they were having. They wanted something that was tested, tried and proven to be true.

 

[joshua 1 9]

40,000 million years ago

So you think that the earth is 40,000 million years old? I really do not understand carbon dating all that much. I use the NASA information on the receding rate of the moon and the spin-down rate of the earth and the effect that has on our weather, our seasons and even the tide of our ocean. Also we can use the Hubble to determine the expansion rate of the universe. I go to my garden and watch a seed sprout, take root and grow into a plant that produces flowers. This all takes time and does not happen in a literal 24 hour day. Although I do believe in a literal Bible.

 

[Neogaia777]

I do. There are days I spend up to 18 hours to read and study and learn this stuff. I am learning right here and right now. I am just sharing with people my research and what I am learning. There is new information about this stuff all the time. So every time we talk about it we have to do a fresh search to find out what all the recent information is about the subject. They knew almost nothing about DNA 50 years ago when I was in High School. Now they have come a long way and learned a lot. Lots of research goes into this so we learn more and new information every day. I see people here offering opinions but they do very little work and very little research to verify if what they believe is actually true or not. My dad was a medical doctor. People did not want opinions from him. They wanted something that would help them with the issues they were having. They wanted something that was tested, tried and proven to be true.

Good, I'm glad you do use your own powers of observation and develop your own ideas and examinations and perceptions, etc, cause I think that is very important...

And we all each have knowledge in different areas depending on what we have spent our time on the most, etc, just don't trust just anything at face value, even if it comes from someone with a masters degree or PhD, etc, and always remember to "take a step back" with new (or old) information that is presented to you, and not only question their observations and examinations and perceptions, but your own as well, k?

God Bless!

 

[mmksparbud]

So you think that the earth is 40,000 million years old? I really do not understand carbon dating all that much. I use the NASA information on the receding rate of the moon and the spin-down rate of the earth and the effect that has on our weather, our seasons and even the tide of our ocean. Also we can use the Hubble to determine the expansion rate of the universe. I go to my garden and watch a seed sprout, take root and grow into a plant that produces flowers. This all takes time and does not happen in a literal 24 hour day. Although I do believe in a literal Bible.

Boy--you sure do jump to conclusions!! I never said that the earth is 40,000 million years old!!! Yah---anyone can tell how long it takes a carrot to sprout from a seed and grow into a carrot---what has that got to do with a God that can speak and it is done?? You believe in a literal bible but do not seem to believe in the literal, all powerful God of the bible!

 

[joshua 1 9]

God that can speak and it is done??

I just want to know when. Give me a time and give me a place. So I can get in my time machine and go visit that time and place. The wise men knew when and where Jesus was going to be born. They were there with Gifts for Him. With Adam and Eve we are talking about an event that took place in the past. So it should be easy for you to tell me when & where this event took place.

 

[mmksparbud]

I just want to know when. Give me a time and give me a place. So I can get in my time machine and go visit that time and place. The wise men knew when and where Jesus was going to be born. They were there with Gifts for Him. With Adam and Eve we are talking about an event that took place in the past. So it should be easy for you to tell me when & where this event took place.

I don't care, so I don't stress over it! It was, By biblical arithmetic, around 6000 years ago. Which falls in line with the 2nd coming being soon. 6 days creation, then the 7th day Sabbath. God instituted 6 years of sowing, then the 7th year of letting the ground rest. It was a Sabbath for the land. When the Jews did not keep the land "Sabbaths, He placed them in captivity in Babylon for 70 years, He called it a land Sabbath while they were captive. And the world will have a Sabbath rest---6,000 years, then 1000 years when the saved are in heaven with Christ, the wicked are dead, the earth is destroyed at His 2nd coming. and the world stays empty and void and is what the bottomless pit is for Satan and his angels. An empty planet for 1000 years for them and they can not go anywhere else. I am far more interested in what is goi9ng to happen then the month and day and hour that Adam and Eve were created. However, only God knows the day and hour of that 2nd coming.

 

[coffee4u]

“…false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.” Matt. 24:23-25

 

[RTP76]

“…false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.” Matt. 24:23-25

Hi coffee, this caught my eye and I am always interested in evolution/creation discussion. If I might ask:

1. Who (in general) are the false prophets?

2. What message do you feel the false prophets are communicating?

God bless -

 

[coffee4u]

Hi coffee, this caught my eye and I am always interested in evolution/creation discussion. If I might ask:

1. Who (in general) are the false prophets?

2. What message do you feel the false prophets are communicating?

God bless -

I put it down as a warning since I wasn't about to point fingers at certain people on this thread who seem to talk as if God himself has given them a new revelation of truth that doesn't match the Bible. I figure those reading can work it out.

My advice is always read the scriptures for yourself and see if they match what someone is saying.

False teaching is always designed, no matter even if with good intentions, to add or subtract from scripture. Just like the very fist conversation in the garden of Eden “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” and Eve's reply back? She added to God's word and said “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die." God never said not to touch.

 

[RTP76]

I put it down as a warning since I wasn't about to point fingers at certain people on this thread who seem to talk as if God himself has given them a new revelation of truth that doesn't match the Bible. I figure those reading can work it out.

My advice is always read the scriptures for yourself and see if they match what someone is saying.

False teaching is always designed, no matter even if with good intentions, to add or subtract from scripture. Just like the very fist conversation in the garden of Eden “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” and Eve's reply back? She added to God's word and said “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die." God never said not to touch.

Thank you, I appreciate the reply and additional context!

 

[Sheila Davis]

Genesis chapter 1 to chapter 2 verse 4, concludes with "This is a history of a/the, or an "heavens and a earth", in the day of or when one was made, ect... Genesis 1 to Genesis 2:4 is a "summary" of an "entire creation", beginning to end, which is why the fall, is not even mentioned there, being an insignificant "blip on the radar" of the amount of time it was covering...

Then we get into the details of a creation in and from Genesis 2:5 and on....
The details it gets into from Genesis 2:5 on, are not even mentioned in Genesis 1 to Genesis 2:4, because they are insignificant and not even worth mentioning, in or to an account that covers the time-frame and time-span of an entire creation from beginning to end...

The chapter and verse break should have been or occurred between Genesis 2:4, and Genesis 2:5...

And it can read (Genesis 2:4) "This is and account and brief summary of an entire history of a Heavens and a Earth from beginning to end, in the day or age or time that one was made, or they are made, when they are made", ect, ect...

But someone says: The order of creation differs in the two stories...

About the vegetation or plants, it does seem to, but that is the only thing that seems to, or is the one and only thing that may differ, as it does not say anything at all about days (of creation or whatever) after Genesis 2:5...?

The vegetation (and creation of man) is the one and only thing that does or does seem to differ IOW's...

In Genesis 1 it says the vegetation was made on day three, and man on day six, but in Genesis 2:5 or after Genesis 2:5 it says that God hadn't made any vegetation to sprout up yet, when He created man, but makes no mention of days...

Maybe He just meant in that "region" where He had put man, or where He had made man (from the dust there, ect) or that He did not make the Garden of Eden there yet, in that region, ect...? And made man and the Garden of Eden at or around the same time, ect...? While in other places in or of the Earth there was already vegetation, ect...? Maybe that region might have even been a dessert maybe, before God made the Garden of Eden and man there, ect...? Made him (Man, Adam) to keep it, or do upkeep on it and take care of it, ect...? And both happened on day six maybe, ect...?

Or it could be something else maybe also...?

I believe the "days" are "ages", and that in Genesis 2:5 on, it is all day six, and that we are still in day six now, and that day six will not end until day seven starts, ect, and I don't believe day seven has started yet, but that day seven begins with Christ's returning to rule and reign and set up the Kingdom, God's Kingdom on Earth, ect, after armaggeddon, ect, and and is the "thousand year reign" (not literal) (or not literally a literal thousand years) but is the "age" of Christ ruling and reigning, and is the day of God's rest, ect... It hasn't happened yet, but will happen soon, ect... Or day seven will be starting sometime "relatively soon", ect...

Anyway,

If you take each "day" to mean an "age" then the Creation account in Genesis 1 lines up with science or what science has to say about Creation, or the way life, this planet, (and even the universe, or this universe) came about, ect...?

Oh and about "making the great luminaries" or the sun and moon (and stars), I think He was talking about clearing away all the dark clouds, dust and ash, from volcanic activity, ect, from the air or sky in the Earth, ect... Anyway, taking those away to "reveal" the sun and moon and stars to shine on the Earth clearly for the first time, ect...

The first two days are talking about the universe, ect... For the most part anyway, as they are also talking about the initial formation of stars and/or planets, ect...

And someone says, that it's the creation of the animals that differs also...?

Man and animals were both on the sixth day, same "age" and were kind of made together, in that they are closely related (land beasts, animals) and came about on the same day (sixth day) or age...?

God also may have "placed" animals in the Garden for Adam also... Or caused animals to come to him (Adam) in the Garden, ect... (maybe)...?

I think it's just a technicality at best (that part)...? Considering how closely land animals, especially mammals, and man are related, and happened on the same day, or in the same age or period of time or time period...

Thoughts...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

I agree

 

[Neogaia777]

I agree

I have some later stuff on it now, if you are interested, etc...?

See these posts here:

Does the Bible connect the doctrine on origins to the Gospel?

Does the Bible connect the doctrine on origins to the Gospel?

I'm also researching a very newly published paper on the exact date of the flood also, etc, as it could not have been around 3000 years ago (3000 B.C. I mean) according to other evidence, etc, also could not be the Sumerians as well, as they were conquered militarily by the Akkadians I think, etc, so it had to be a people that existed in that area before them, etc, and before them both, etc, but, anyway, and I'm still looking into the paper for evidence, etc, but it says the flood of the Mesopotamian area where the Sons of God would have originated before all but Noah and his family, and maybe Cain, were wiped out, etc, anyway, his paper tries to date it back to around 5700 BC, and with a people that were before both the Sumerians/Akkadians, and others, etc, which would make a lot more sense with my current theories, etc, and his as well, etc...

Below is the paper I am right now looking at, etc...

https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2018/PSCF9-18Dickin.pdf

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I have some later stuff on it now, if you are interested, etc...?

See these posts here:

Does the Bible connect the doctrine on origins to the Gospel?

Does the Bible connect the doctrine on origins to the Gospel?

I'm also researching a very newly published and is still in the works paper on the exact date of the flood also, etc, as it could not have been 3000 to 3500 years ago according to other evidence, etc, also could not be the Sumerians as well, as they were conquered militarily by the Akkadians I think, etc, so it had to be a people that existed in that area before them, etc, and before them both, etc, but, anyway, and I'm still looking into the paper for evidence, etc, but it says the flood of the Mesopotamian area where the Sons of God would have originated before all but Noah and his family, and Cain, were wiped out, etc, anyway, his paper tries to date it back to around 6500 BC which would make a lot more sense with my current theories, etc, and his as well, etc...

Below is the paper I am right now looking at, etc...

https://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/2018/PSCF9-18Dickin.pdf

God Bless!

I have been researching and learning on it, etc, and so as the way learning goes, etc, I have new information on it now, etc, but my learning about it is still not quite over with yet, or is still not quite fully complete yet, etc, but it is definitely updated a bit from when I created this thread originally, etc...

But this whole thread here was most definitely me definitely going/heading in the right direction at the time I think, etc, and much of it is still very very true still, actually all of it still, etc, I just have some more information in addition to it now if you care to check it out, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Bump...

 

[Aspect]

To be Orthodox means we accept the whole package of the faith, not just certain items. Anyone who believes in evolution is not fully converted to the Church. Evolution is a heretical doctrine of creation and a problematic conception of God.

Blessed Augustine believed that the world was less than 6,000 years old at the time he lived (City of God 12:10, p. 232).
St. Theophilus (A.D. 115-181), sixth bishop of Antioch, and Julius Africanus (A.D. 200-245), believed that the world was 5,530 years old. (Theophilus,"To Autolycus," in "Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 2, pp. 118-21; Julius Africanus, "Five Books of Chronology," in "Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol.6, pp. 130-38).
The common Byzantine Christian reckoning (derived from the Septuagint), placed the date of creation at 5,508 B.C. (Rose, Genesis, Creation and Early Man, p. 236).
Russia inherited from the Byzantines the Orthodox Calendar based on the creation era. The date for the creation of the world was used by the Russians as the starting point for their empire. (see Riasanovsky, A History of Russia, p. 244).
Fr. Seraphim Rose writes: "even the most mystical Fathers" such as St. Isaac the Syrian accepted without question the common understanding of the Church that the world was created "more or less" in 5,500 B.C. (Rose, Genesis, Creation and Early Man, p. 236).

Recommended Books

Genesis, Creation and Early Man: The Orthodox Christian Vision, by Fr. Seraphim Rose;
THE DOCTRINES OF GENESIS 1-11: A Compendium and Defense of Traditional Catholic Theology on Origins, by Warkulwiz;
Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, By Denton;
Darwin On Trial, By Johnson;
Ontogeny and Phylogeny, By Stephen Gould;
Origins (Video Series), by A.E. Wilder Smith;
The Natural Sciences Know Nothing of Evolution, by A.E. Wilder Smith;
The Scientific Alternative to Neo-Darwinian Evolutionary Theory, by A.E. Wilder Smith.

(Dr. A. E. Wilder Smith was a young earth creationist who held three PhDs in molecular biology, physical organic chemistry and pharmacology. Very few scientists can claim that level of authority, especially when you include the fact that he was consulted by world leaders in his life);

In Six Days, by Ashton -- a number of scientists give testimonies on why they believe the scientific evidence shows that the world is young.

 

[sfs]

To be Orthodox means we accept the whole package of the faith, not just certain items. Anyone who believes in evolution is not fully converted to the Church. Evolution is a heretical doctrine of creation and a problematic conception of God.

I'm fairly certain that you don't have the authority to decide what beliefs are heretical, especially since you're disagreeing with your own church's teaching on the subject (assuming your 'Catholic' label is accurate).