Genesis 6 Giants

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Hanukkah = Haggai 2

Twenty-forth day of the ninth month, foundation of Temple laid.

It is the 1335th day from Daniel 12.

No this is not where Hannukah started. Hannukah started when the Maccabees cleans the temple after Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated it by sacrificing a pig. Here is what Wikipedia says about it. But you can find the story in1 and 2 Maccabees.

Official name Hebrew: [FONT='SBL Hebrew', David, Narkisim, 'Times New Roman', 'Ezra SIL SR', FrankRuehl, 'Microsoft Sans Serif', 'Lucida Grande']חֲנֻכָּה[/font] or חנוכה
English translation: "Establishing" or "Dedication" (of the Temple in Jerusalem) Observed by Jews Type Jewish Significance The Maccabees successfully rebelled against Antiochus IV Epiphanes. According to the Talmud, a late text, the Temple was purified and the wicks of the menorah miraculously burned for eight days, even though there was only enough sacred oil for one day's lighting. Begins 25 Kislev Ends 2 Tevet or 3 Tevet 2012 date Sunset, December 8 to nightfall, December 16 2013 date Sunset, November 27 to nightfall, December 5 2014 date Sunset, December 16 to nightfall, December 24 Celebrations Lighting candles each night. Singing special songs, such as Ma'oz Tzur. Reciting Hallel prayer. Eating foods fried in oil, such as latkes and sufganiyot, and dairy foods. Playing the dreidel game, and giving Hanukkah gelt Related to Purim, as a rabbinically decreed holiday. Hanukkah (pronounced HAH-nə-kə [needs IPA];[1][2][3] Hebrew: [FONT='SBL Hebrew', David, Narkisim, 'Times New Roman', 'Ezra SIL SR', FrankRuehl, 'Microsoft Sans Serif', 'Lucida Grande']חֲנֻכָּה[/font], Tiberian: Ḥănukkāh, usually spelled חנוכה, pronounced [χanuˈka] in Modern Hebrew; a transliteration also romanized as Chanukah, Chanukkah or Chanuka), also known as the Festival of Lights and Feast of Dedication, is an eight-day Jewish holiday commemorating the rededication of the Holy Temple (the Second Temple) in Jerusalem at the time of the Maccabean Revolt of the 2nd century BCE. Hanukkah is observed for eight nights and days, starting on the 25th day of Kislev according to the Hebrew calendar, which may occur at any time from late November to late December in the Gregorian calendar.
The festival is observed by the kindling of the lights of a unique candelabrum, the nine-branched Menorah or Hanukiah, one additional light on each night of the holiday, progressing to eight on the final night. The typical Menorah consists of eight branches with an additional raised branch. The extra light is called a shamash (Hebrew: שמש‎, "attendant")[4] and is given a distinct location, usually above or below the rest. The purpose of the shamash is to have a light available for use, as using the Hanukkah lights themselves is forbidden.[5]

 

[ebedmelech]

66, 73, or 75--I'm not particularly picky on that point. There are legitimate disagreements over the status of the Deuterocanonicals.

But to willy-nilly change the Canon simply over matters of personal preference is unjustified. Which is why Luther ultimately didn't remove Hebrews, James, Jude, and the Apocalypse (though he personally had issues with them); and it's why we don't add Enoch or a medieval midrash calling itself Jasher.

There are lots of books that have a much greater pedigree than Enoch in having a potential place in the Canon--1 Clement, Barnabas, the Didache, the Shepherd--and they should be considered LONG before Enoch. "Jasher" doesn't even get consideration, it's medieval midrash; it has less chance of being put into the Canon than St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica.

-CryptoLutheran

I'm in agreement. I think the main point the Apocrypha is not regarded hinges on the fact that the Ancient Hebrew canon doesn't include them and I think that has to carry the greater weight as to why there's much less debate over the OT canon than the NT. Historically, the OT canon had much more evidence behind it, and made agreement on it much easier.

I'm aware of Luther's view on those 4 books you mentioned. Luther had a problem with the book of Esther too.

 

[ebedmelech]

No this is not where Hannukah started. Hannukah started when the Maccabees cleans the temple after Antiocus Epiphanies desecrated it by sacrificing a pig. Here is what Wikipedia says about it. But you can find the story in1 and 2 Maccabees.

Official name Hebrew: [FONT='SBL Hebrew', David, Narkisim, 'Times New Roman', 'Ezra SIL SR', FrankRuehl, 'Microsoft Sans Serif', 'Lucida Grande']חֲנֻכָּה[/font] or חנוכה
English translation: "Establishing" or "Dedication" (of the Temple in Jerusalem) Observed by Jews Type Jewish Significance The Maccabees successfully rebelled against Antiochus IV Epiphanes. According to the Talmud, a late text, the Temple was purified and the wicks of the menorah miraculously burned for eight days, even though there was only enough sacred oil for one day's lighting. Begins 25 Kislev Ends 2 Tevet or 3 Tevet 2012 date Sunset, December 8 to nightfall, December 16 2013 date Sunset, November 27 to nightfall, December 5 2014 date Sunset, December 16 to nightfall, December 24 Celebrations Lighting candles each night. Singing special songs, such as Ma'oz Tzur. Reciting Hallel prayer. Eating foods fried in oil, such as latkes and sufganiyot, and dairy foods. Playing the dreidel game, and giving Hanukkah gelt Related to Purim, as a rabbinically decreed holiday. Hanukkah (pronounced HAH-nə-kə [needs IPA];[1][2][3] Hebrew: [FONT='SBL Hebrew', David, Narkisim, 'Times New Roman', 'Ezra SIL SR', FrankRuehl, 'Microsoft Sans Serif', 'Lucida Grande']חֲנֻכָּה[/font], Tiberian: Ḥănukkāh, usually spelled חנוכה, pronounced [χanuˈka] in Modern Hebrew; a transliteration also romanized as Chanukah, Chanukkah or Chanuka), also known as the Festival of Lights and Feast of Dedication, is an eight-day Jewish holiday commemorating the rededication of the Holy Temple (the Second Temple) in Jerusalem at the time of the Maccabean Revolt of the 2nd century BCE. Hanukkah is observed for eight nights and days, starting on the 25th day of Kislev according to the Hebrew calendar, which may occur at any time from late November to late December in the Gregorian calendar.
The festival is observed by the kindling of the lights of a unique candelabrum, the nine-branched Menorah or Hanukiah, one additional light on each night of the holiday, progressing to eight on the final night. The typical Menorah consists of eight branches with an additional raised branch. The extra light is called a shamash (Hebrew: שמש‎, "attendant")[4] and is given a distinct location, usually above or below the rest. The purpose of the shamash is to have a light available for use, as using the Hanukkah lights themselves is forbidden.[5]

Quite excellent Handmaid...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

No this is not where Hannukah started. Hannukah started when the Maccabees cleans the temple after Antiocus Epiphanies desecrated it by sacrificing a pig. Here is what Wikipedia says about it. But you can find the story in1 and 2 Maccabees.

Official name Hebrew: [FONT='SBL Hebrew', David, Narkisim, 'Times New Roman', 'Ezra SIL SR', FrankRuehl, 'Microsoft Sans Serif', 'Lucida Grande']חֲנֻכָּה[/font] or חנוכה
English translation: "Establishing" or "Dedication" (of the Temple in Jerusalem) Observed by Jews Type Jewish Significance The Maccabees successfully rebelled against Antiochus IV Epiphanes. According to the Talmud, a late text, the Temple was purified and the wicks of the menorah miraculously burned for eight days, even though there was only enough sacred oil for one day's lighting. Begins 25 Kislev Ends 2 Tevet or 3 Tevet 2012 date Sunset, December 8 to nightfall, December 16 2013 date Sunset, November 27 to nightfall, December 5 2014 date Sunset, December 16 to nightfall, December 24 Celebrations Lighting candles each night. Singing special songs, such as Ma'oz Tzur. Reciting Hallel prayer. Eating foods fried in oil, such as latkes and sufganiyot, and dairy foods. Playing the dreidel game, and giving Hanukkah gelt Related to Purim, as a rabbinically decreed holiday. Hanukkah (pronounced HAH-nə-kə [needs IPA];[1][2][3] Hebrew: [FONT='SBL Hebrew', David, Narkisim, 'Times New Roman', 'Ezra SIL SR', FrankRuehl, 'Microsoft Sans Serif', 'Lucida Grande']חֲנֻכָּה[/font], Tiberian: Ḥănukkāh, usually spelled חנוכה, pronounced [χanuˈka] in Modern Hebrew; a transliteration also romanized as Chanukah, Chanukkah or Chanuka), also known as the Festival of Lights and Feast of Dedication, is an eight-day Jewish holiday commemorating the rededication of the Holy Temple (the Second Temple) in Jerusalem at the time of the Maccabean Revolt of the 2nd century BCE. Hanukkah is observed for eight nights and days, starting on the 25th day of Kislev according to the Hebrew calendar, which may occur at any time from late November to late December in the Gregorian calendar.
The festival is observed by the kindling of the lights of a unique candelabrum, the nine-branched Menorah or Hanukiah, one additional light on each night of the holiday, progressing to eight on the final night. The typical Menorah consists of eight branches with an additional raised branch. The extra light is called a shamash (Hebrew: שמש‎, "attendant")[4] and is given a distinct location, usually above or below the rest. The purpose of the shamash is to have a light available for use, as using the Hanukkah lights themselves is forbidden.[5]

Beth's

Hanukkah = Haggai 2

Twenty-forth day of the ninth month, foundation of Temple laid.

It is the 1335th day from Daniel 12.

is a dual prophecy that dates from the laying of the temple after the first partial return from the dispersion that tells the actual date of the incarnation hundreds of years before it happened, and then, Hannukah as the festival did happen much later, in Maccabees, and is further the season of celebrating the miracle of the Lights: the two passages tie together in that the Light that lights every man that comes into the world was incarnated on the eve of the celebration of Hannukah, born nine months later, on the eve of Tabernacles, and circumcised on the 8th day, the "Great Day", after Tabernacles began.

Maccabees is true history, and should be in the Bible, as it was before the Archbishop of Canterbury pronounced anathema on those who would read the Deutero-canonical Scriptures in the Church readings....which was over 200 years after the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury pronounced anathema on those who did not read it in their Church readings....politics!
It belongs in the Scriptures and it is not "inspired" -just true history.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

You're making no point. God is not the author of confusion...but in man's confusion He will certainly bring His purpose about.

See it as you wish...but I'm certain there are 66 books of sacred scripture.

When your name is God...I might listen...

An excellent work on the scriptures I have in my Christian library is "The Canon of Scripture" by F. F. Bruce.

The copy I have is copyright 1971 and looks like this:

...

Quite informative too...

Not inspired!

 

[ebedmelech]

Maccabees is true history, and should be in the Bible, as it was before the Archbishop of Canterbury pronounced anathema on those who would read the Deutero-canonical Scriptures in the Church readings....which was over 200 years after the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury pronounced anathema on those who did not read it in their Church readings....politics!
It belongs in the Scriptures and it is not "inspired" -just true history.

This wouldn't be true. Even the ancient Hebrew canon doesn't include 1 & 2 Maccabees yeshuasavedme. So this is not politics! The OT canon has much greater evidence to ride on as to their canonicity.

You will get no argument from me on their historical value at all, and while I won't attempt to persuade you, I would encourage you to research your view because I believe the weight of evidence will prove they are not "inspired" writings, and that would be the point.

Great supplemental value though...no doubt about that.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

This wouldn't be true. Even the ancient Hebrew canon doesn't include 1 & 2 Maccabees yeshuasavedme. So this is not politics! The OT canon has much greater evidence to ride on as to their canonicity.

You will get no argument from me on their historical value at all, and while I won't attempt to persuade you, I would encourage you to research your view because I believe the weight of evidence will prove they are not "inspired" writings, and that would be the point.

Great supplemental value though...no doubt about that.

No history is "inspired". The Jews do not believe the "writings" are "inspired".
Maccabees is included in the Jewish "writings".The Jews celebrate Hannukuh. They believe Maccabees is true history.
Jesus celebrated Hannukuh. Jesus believed Maccabees was true history.

 

[ebedmelech]

No history is "inspired". The Jews do not believe the "writings" are "inspired".
Maccabees is included in the Jewish "writings".The Jews celebrate Hannukuh. They believe Maccabees is true history.
Jesus celebrated Hannukuh. Jesus believed Maccabees was true history.

That's right....so why should it be sacred scripture then? That is the point.

I'm not debating the truthfulness of the history...the issue is was this something God told them to write.

That would be where the difference lies. I'm reading the bible through chronologically this year, and I'm about to finish Deuteronomy. In Deuteronomy 31:24-26 Moses was instructed to write the books of the Law by God. That is the reason they are canonical, God instructed Moses to write them;
24 It came about, when Moses finished writing the words of this law in a book until they were complete,
25 that Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
26 “Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

Those are the things that make them canonical, the prophets too, who say "Thus says the Lord"...that's inspiration from God.

You don't find that in 1 & 2 Maccabees.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Jews had no settled "lists" until after Jesus -and guess who made the selections -not Christ receiving Jews!
and there is much variation among the different sects of Judaism and different groups of them in different areas.

[SIZE=+1]
In summary, modern Christianity reflects the lack of uniformity found in the canon of the Old Testament, for Catholics and Eastern Orthodox continue to refer to the Greek Septuagint as Old Testament while Protestants chose the Masoretic Text of the Hebrew canon:[/SIZE]http://biblescripture.net/Canon.html

 

[yeshuasavedme]

That's right....so why should it be sacred scripture then? That is the point.

I'm not debating the truthfulness of the history...the issue is was this something God told them to write.

That would be where the difference lies. I'm reading the bible through chronologically this year, and I'm about to finish Deuteronomy. In Deuteronomy 31:24-26 Moses was instructed to write the books of the Law by God. That is the reason they are canonical, God instructed Moses to write them;
24 It came about, when Moses finished writing the words of this law in a book until they were complete,
25 that Moses commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
26 “Take this book of the law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may remain there as a witness against you.

Those are the things that make them canonical, the prophets too, who say "Thus says the Lord"...that's inspiration from God.

You don't find that in 1 & 2 Maccabees.

I don't think you got the point: not one of the writings included in the "collections of books" [Bible means collection of books deemed sacred] is believed to be "inspired" by the Jews. They are in the "Bible", they are not "inspired", and they are history, prose and wisdom.
Only "Thus saith YHWH" is "inspired". and that is why some Christian groups reject anything but the Torah in their "Bibles".

 

[Bethwhite]

Beth's is a dual prophecy that dates from the laying of the temple after the first partial return from the dispersion that tells the actual date of the incarnation hundreds of years before it happened, and then, Hannukah as the festival did happen much later, in Maccabees, and is further the season of celebrating the miracle of the Lights: the two passages tie together in that the Light that lights every man that comes into the world was incarnated on the eve of the celebration of Hannukah, born nine months later, on the eve of Tabernacles, and circumcised on the 8th day, the "Great Day", after Tabernacles began.

Maccabees is true history, and should be in the Bible, as it was before the Archbishop of Canterbury pronounced anathema on those who would read the Deutero-canonical Scriptures in the Church readings....which was over 200 years after the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury pronounced anathema on those who did not read it in their Church readings....politics!
It belongs in the Scriptures and it is not "inspired" -just true history.

All Glory to GOD!

Haggai 2 and Zech 4 together appear to indicate millennial temple foundation.

 

[ebedmelech]

Jews had no settled "lists" until after Jesus -and guess who made the selections -not Christ receiving Jews!
and there is much variation among the different sects of Judaism and different groups of them in different areas.

I think you have it a bit misconstrued, and that's a pretty weak site in my view.

If you're content with what brought you to your conclusion, stand on that. I had to do my own research myself before I was convinced the OT and NT canons are correct...and contrary to what you're saying, to say it was "politics" is simply an easy way to bail out.

I value the Apocrypha, and really I don't have a problem with them supplementing the canon, because that's how history reflects they were used for the most part.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I think the sons of God reference in Genesis 6 are fallen angels.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I think the sons of God reference in Genesis 6 are fallen angels.

They are indeed, and they who did it before the flood are chained as an example and warning to other sons of God to not do that, as Jude states they were, but Jude knew, as Moses wrote, that other angels also did it after that =after the flood.

We have Goliath [and his brothers] who is one with the "remnant" of the evil spirit of the Watchers.
King Og was a terrible "remnant of the watchers", offspring, from whose name we get the word "ogre".

 

[yeshuasavedme]

All Glory to GOD!

Haggai 2 and Zech 4 together appear to indicate millennial temple foundation.

Don't know, but do know that the incarnation was the date the Stone was laid for the true second temple not made with hands to be built upon, for the Glory to indwell....
Then, after the prophecy in Haggai 2, during th etimes of the Maccabees, the feast of the miracle of the lights was established, and then later, on the very eve of that celebration, the incarnation happened in the womb of a virgin, perhaps as she herself, even lit the servant candle which lights the others!

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Don't know, but do know that the incarnation was the date the Stone was laid for the true second temple not made with hands to be built upon, for the Glory to indwell....
Then, after the prophecy in Haggai 2, during th etimes of the Maccabees, the feast of the miracle of the lights was established, and then later, on the very eve of that celebration, the incarnation happened in the womb of a virgin, perhaps as she herself, even lit the servant candle which lights the others!

Now this is something I had not considered, that Mary conceived on a feast day.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Now this is something I had not considered, that Mary conceived on a feast day.

On the very eve of the feast of the "Miracle of the Lights", and born on the 1st day of Tabernacles, which made His circumcision on the 8th day "that Great Day" which signs the ceasing forever of the multiplying of the seed of Adam because then the second harvest of sons of God got from Adam's seed will be harvested.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I always wondered why there were gods in ancient times, and I wondered how did mankind stray away from from Yahweh. I was watching a t.v. show showing how they found sarcophagi in tombs in Egypt that they found mummified bulls. That is the first time I knew that bulls were worshiped in ancient Egypt. I know that the Israelites sinned by having Aaron cast a golden bull for them to worship because of their lack of faith in Yahweh , but I wanted to know why they wanted a golden calf. Then I did a little research and discovered that there were many cultures that worshiped bulls. Some, even to this day.So, I wondered what could have happened to cause this. There is in the mythologies, Greek,Indian,Egyptian, of giants with bull heads that were very violent and they terrified the people to the point of them trapping them in large enclosures. We know the stories as myths. But,we know of the rampant paganism that went on in the ancient world. What made people turn to pagan Gods?

 

[deetwang]

To answer your question "What made people turn to pagan gods?" Blessings.
People thought that if they worshiped these pagan gods they would be granted some sort of blessing in return, fertility, good crops, rainfall for crops.
Usually, as in the case of Moloch for example, human sacrifices were acceptable. They built images of Moloch that had fires lit within them, and would place their children in the fires to receive favors from the false god, who really was a demonic entity (fallen angel or devil) and was able to grant some wishes, but not all powerful like the real God.

Moloch was one of many false gods the Canaanites worshiped in the land God gave to the Israelites. God warned them not to go after these gods or practice the occult practices the people in the land of Canaan in Deuteronomy.
Deuteronomy 18
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, Lev. 19.26
or a witch, Ex. 22.18
11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, Lev. 19.31 or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. Mt. 5.48
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

Many in Israel disobeyed the LORD and built idols in high places to false gods, even sacrificing their children. Even King Solomon went after false gods as he got older, due to the influence of the hundreds of foreign wives he took. And many other Kings of Israel did this.

Today, since we know that God changes not, we are still forbidden to practice occult things such as divination, sorcery, ouija boards or astrology. They are forbidden to Christians, we are to trust God with our future, ask for things in prayer, and accept His will instead of trying to gain knowledge , power or influence through occult means.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

To answer your question "What made people turn to pagan gods?" Blessings.
People thought that if they worshiped these pagan gods they would be granted some sort of blessing in return, fertility, good crops, rainfall for crops.
Usually, as in the case of Moloch for example, human sacrifices were acceptable. They built images of Moloch that had fires lit within them, and would place their children in the fires to receive favors from the false god, who really was a demonic entity (fallen angel or devil) and was able to grant some wishes, but not all powerful like the real God.

Moloch was one of many false gods the Canaanites worshiped in the land God gave to the Israelites. God warned them not to go after these gods or practice the occult practices the people in the land of Canaan in Deuteronomy.
Deuteronomy 18
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, Lev. 19.26
or a witch, Ex. 22.18
11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, Lev. 19.31 or a necromancer.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. Mt. 5.48
14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.

Many in Israel disobeyed the LORD and built idols in high places to false gods, even sacrificing their children. Even King Solomon went after false gods as he got older, due to the influence of the hundreds of foreign wives he took. And many other Kings of Israel did this.

Today, since we know that God changes not, we are still forbidden to practice occult things such as divination, sorcery, ouija boards or astrology. They are forbidden to Christians, we are to trust God with our future, ask for things in prayer, and accept His will instead of trying to gain knowledge , power or influence through occult means.

Yeah, and there is the bull man there in the pic. I know they were deceived into thinking that they would get blessings from these pagan gods, but where did the concept originate? I think it had something to do with Genesis 6.