Genesis 6 Giants in scripture

[Postvieww]

Not a literal heaven, not a literal Dragon, and not literal stars on a woman's head, but symbolic. This heaven represented the Kingdom of heaven, just as when God said the Kingdom of heaven suffered violence (Matthew 11:12) where the violent took it by force, as He was speaking of the kingdom of God on earth, which was the Lord's congregation Israel in travail. There was spiritual warfare and Christ came to comfort Jerusalem (Spiritually) and bring peace. All these passages speak of this restoration of the Kingdom of heaven, but God's word declares first Satan had to be cast out and bound from deceiving until the millennial reign was over. By His cross, He cast Satan out so that He could set those of the nations/gentiles free of their captivity wherein they were "deceived" and lost. He didn't stop everybody of every nation/gentile from being deceived, it was the elect, those of whom He would build His church that were in view. That's who Satan was bound for the sake of "These" not being deceived.

A lot to unpack here let’s start with your statement “not a literal dragon” We are in agreement on that point , because of verse 9 which clearly states the dragon is that old serpent (also not a literal serpent) “called the devil and satan” that part is literal.

Now to your statement “not literal stars on a woman's head, but symbolic” I also agree stars here are symbolic because of the way stars are used previously in scripture, especially the book of Revelation. Examples, Revelation 1:20, Genesis 37:9, Revelation 12:4.

Now on what basis do you determine heaven In Revelation 12 is not literal? I contend that it is because the text says he was “cast out into the earth”, and also “his angels were cast out with him”. Revelation 12:7 tells us that “ there was war in heaven” what in the text would lead us to the conclusion this is not literal heaven? I see no way scripturally to make this refer to the “kingdom of heaven” on the earth. I take scripture literally except where not possible such as the dragon, where we are told plainly who the dragon is.

Now to your claim “Satan had to be cast out and bound from deceiving until the millennial reign was over” . If I understand you correctly you believe satan is currently bound and we are in the millennial reign????

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Do you really believe satan is not currently deceiving the nations?

Ephesians 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

2 Timothy 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

The above passages are without meaning if satan is currently bound!

Much of the book of revelation is yet in our future, satan being bound for 1000 years is yet in our future, satan and his angels being cast out of the heavenly realm is yet in or future. There are 3 heavens in scripture.

Yes he has been defeated at the cross, yes we have the authority through Christ to resist his evil devices but he is still alive and well and bringing havoc on this planet through deception and the power many Christians give him by ignoring he is here and he will continue until Christ returns.

Satan is not now in the bottomless pit nor bound with a chain, but he will be and that is literal and in our future.

 

[Postvieww]

Nope. God is not the author of confusion. God did not consider the created celestial beings (angel) as His sons in the old testament and then consider human elect as sons of God in the New Testament. The Scripture must be compared with the rest of Scripture which is what is called biblical exegesis which you lacks! The so-called celestial beings (angels) were never considered as sons of God!

My friend it is you who are wrong here. You are not rightly dividing the word on this point. Sons of God is used several different ways in scripture as has been repeatedly pointed out. Let's try again.

1. Jesus was the “Son of God” no explanation needed.

2. Adam was called the” son of God” Luke 3:38 he was created by God’s own hand. Adam was never a born again under the new covenant he was created by God just as the angels were.

3. We as born again believers in Christ are “sons of God”. 1 John 3:2

Note here: the above three examples use the same phrase in a DIFFERENT context, they are not one and the same. Neither is the use of the same phrase in the Old Testament the same as you try to force it into a NT definition.

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Not one of the above OT passages are the same as Jesus the Son of God or born again believers as sons of God. The only thing in common is with Adam as a son of God because Adam was created by the hand of God just as were the angels.

Now to your claim as to where this takes place in Job 1 &2. True it does not explicitly say this is heaven and likewise it does not say this is on earth. Since you try to force a NT definition of “sons of God” on these passages you have no option but to claim this is on the earth.

On the other hand since Job 38 in context is at the creation of the earth and there was no Adam nor born again Christians present, I and many others conclude this took place in heaven or wherever God was at the time and the sons of God in this case is absolutely not human beings because there were none at the time.

Now since none of the OT passages listed refer to Adam , Christ or NT believers we are left with one option and that is angels created by God’s own hand.

I get it you don’t believe it, you don’t want to believe it and most likely you are not going to believe it but it is truth none the less. It also is sound exegesis.

You are right God is not the author of confusion but men are. I see no confusion on this issue but what is added by ignoring the plain text of scripture.

ADDED EDIT:

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

It matters not whether you believe this is a pre-incarnation of Christ or an angel of God, it is one or the other, this was a supernatural event and definitely not Adam or a born again believer.

 

[TribulationSigns]

A lot to unpack here let’s start with your statement “not a literal dragon” We are in agreement on that point , because of verse 9 which clearly states the dragon is that old serpent (also not a literal serpent) “called the devil and satan” that part is literal.

The dragon represents Satan. He does float out there in space or in heaven. Heaven is exactly what God defines it where dragon and woman were!

Now to your statement “

not literal stars on a woman's head, but symbolic” I also agree stars here are symbolic because of the way stars are used previously in scripture, especially the book of Revelation. Examples, Revelation 1:20, Genesis 37:9, Revelation 12:4.

God has defined stars as messengers.

Rev 1:20
[20] The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Messengers! Not literally angels. God specifically states it is about the messengers of the congregation with the number seven in Scripture means "fullness of whatever in view." In this case, the church! He is talking about ALL people of the congregation that she rules over, Revelation 17:18. That is why the woman has 12 stars. Don't you realize that the number twelve signifies church or congregation in Scripture? Now do you realize HOW Satan struck drew third of "stars of heaven" and cast them to earth? Do you honestly think Satan will liteally use his tail and struck third of balls of fires in space and cast into earth? OR do you think they are the angels that fell into his influence but why did they were "angels" as 12 stars over woman's head anyway? You do not make any sense whatsoever anyway.

Now on what basis do you determine heaven In Revelation 12 is not literal? I contend that it is

because the text says he was “cast out into the earth”, and also “his angels were cast out with him”.

Do you even know what earth signifies in Scripture? An old planet earth or...? Think about where Satan has cast a third of woman's 12 stars to? Earth, right? Exactly what earth is it that God said? Think about the second beast coming out of the earth! Of course, God is not talking about physical planet of dirt here, so what do you think earth in context signifies in Scripture.

Revelation 12:7 tells us that “ there was war in heaven” what in the text would lead us to the conclusion this is not literal heaven? I see no way scripturally to make this refer to the “kingdom of heaven” on the earth. I take scripture literally except where not

possible such as the dragon, where we are told plainly who the dragon is.

Do you honest there was a physical war in heaven where God sits? No, the war in heaven was the result of violent within spiritual realm of the old testament congregation before she fell.

Mat 11:12
[12] And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

This is war in heaven. But it is not heaven you think it was.

Now to your claim “

Satan had to be cast out and bound from deceiving until the millennial reign was over” . If I understand you correctly you believe satan is currently bound and we are in the millennial reign????

You need to understand WHY Satan need to be bound in the first place in order have his house (world) to be spoiled by Christ. In other words, Christ bound Satan FOR HIS PEOPLE. This is how we got saved. Once the fullness of Gentiles be coming in, (eg. once God has finished sealed all of HIs People, Revelation 7:1-4), Satan will be loosened to deceive the nations (gentiles) WITHIN the New Testament congregation all over the world, Gog and Magog, just like he did with the old testament congregation prior to her fall!

I believe that Satan has already been loosned from bottmless pit because he has revelaed to me that he is working through many false prophets and christs in the church in the past few decades, bringing her into apostasy and desolation just exactly what Christ warned about. It is about the fall of New Testament congregation, just like Israel had! That is why you will not be able to "see" it because you will deny there is anyting wrong with the church just like Lot's sons in law prior to the destruction of the city of Sodom AS AN EXAMPLE! Signs of time! People like you will be busy or duped into believing that the prophecies are all about Jews and Naitonal Israel because you believe God will rapture the church first. You will be surprised to learn that you have been duped by false prophets and christs who sold you lies on the day of Christ.

Do you really believe satan is not currently deceiving the nations?

I do.

Yes he has been defeated at the cross, yes we have the authority through Christ to resist his evil devices but he is still alive and well and bringing havoc on this planet through deception and the power many Christians give him by ignoring he is here and he will continue until Christ returns.

Christ did NOT prevent Satan from bringing war, famines, etc. on earth. This is NOT the reason WHY Christ bound Satan. Satan was bound so that the church could be built by bringing people out of his kingdom to the kingdom of Dear Son. Christ warned that Christians shall suffer tribulation since the Cross. What do you expect?

Satan is not now in the bottomless pit nor bound with a chain, but he will be and that is literal and in our future.

That is the deception that the devil liked you to believe so that you will not be able to "see" that he has actually been loosened and have used false christs and prophets like Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, etc. to tell you that all is well in the church despite the abominations they brought in! Christ warned us about this before!

Mat 24:23-25

• Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
• For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
• Behold, I have told you before.

 

[TribulationSigns]

My friend it is you who are wrong here. You are not rightly dividing the word on this point. Sons of God is used several different ways in scripture as has been repeatedly pointed out.

Yeah right. Since you cannot discern the signs of time, I would not be surprised that you believe the sons of God in the old testament to be your fallen feathered angels. Which is not surprised due to the spiritual condition of the church is in.

Tell you what, let wait until the Last Trump when we will find out who are the sons of God. The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that!

 

[Postvieww]

Yeah right. Since you cannot discern the signs of time, I would not be surprised that you believe the sons of God in the old testament to be your fallen feathered angels. Which is not surprised due to the spiritual condition of the church is in.

Tell you what, let wait until the Last Trump when we will find out who are the sons of God. The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that!

Clearly I do believe the sons of God in the passages I quoted do refer to fallen angels; I laid it out in living color. Did you even seriously read the post? It doesn’t sound like it from your nonresponse. Not one point addressed just patronizing sarcasm. My friend that is not debate. If you can’t refute points made why bother to respond it makes it look like you have no answers.

I was clear about who the sons of God are in scripture, you are using a one size fits all approach and it is error.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Clearly I do believe the sons of God in the passages I quoted do refer to fallen angels; I laid it out in living color. Did you even seriously read the post? It doesn’t sound like it from your nonresponse. Not one point addressed just patronizing sarcasm. My friend that is not debate. If you can’t refute points made why bother to respond it makes it look like you have no answers.

I was clear about who the sons of God are in scripture, you are using a one size fits all approach and it is error.

You heard me. I did read your belief which is very common in Christianity. I did refute that theory with Scripture and explained in lengthy. I will not going to twist your arm so you cry uncle. I will leave this to Lord Jesus to determine who is right on the day of Judgment. I am saying that you are being obsessed with celestial beings, prehistoric earth, and literal giants instead of comparing Scripture with REST of the Scripture, both old and new testament. The sons are God and the morning stars are God's Elect. Not the fallen feathered angels. Have a good day.

 

[seventysevens]

The dragon represents Satan. He does float out there in space or in heaven.

:giggle: maybe he chose to ride on cloud 9 , giving his wings as rest

 

[Postvieww]

I am saying that you are being obsessed with celestial beings, prehistoric earth,

If I said you are obsessed with trying to prove your version of this topic would that be accurate?

and literal giants

So I shouldn’t take the scriptures below literally? Based on what?

Numbers13:32-33, Deuteronomy 1:28, 2:10-11, 2:20, 3:11-13,9:2, Joshua 12:4, 13:12,15:8,18:16, 1 Samuel 17:4, 2 Samuel 21:18-20, Amos 2:9.

This is just a partial list. You have to work very hard to remove these from being literal accounts in scripture.

instead of comparing
Scripture with REST of the Scripture, both old and new testament.

I have done that for you and you did not refute the uses of “Son of God” in both the OT and the NT I laid out very clearly for you in Post #162. Your nonresponse was post #164.

The sons are God and the morning stars are God's Elect. Not the fallen feathered angels. Have a good day.

Not in Genesis, Job or Daniel! Who said fallen angels were feathered?

If you are going to present yourself as the finale authority on this subject at least respond in good faith to the points raised.

I sincerely hope you have a good day too.