Gay Christians

[CatsRule2020]

I used to believe that the only thing that would galvanize a person against God enough for them to be willing to forfeit their soul, was to fall in love with money. I now have come to find that there is another thing. That thing being the power of propaganda or false teaching . I had never realized just how powerful it was until about the last 10 years. I have tried to figure out how it entraps a person's psyche to the point of anti-God. I have so far found that it has something to do with stoking a person's pride to the point that they care nothing of the objective truth of a subject or the facts pointing to the truth. This may be why Christians still think the Bible teaches about homosexuality and still think that interventional evolution was not applied to creation.
And so many wonder why churches are dying out.

 

[hedrick]

So you really think the issue is "attraction?"

In terms of membership numbers, yes. I’ve seen a good case that Christianity was a really attractive way to live in the Roman Empire. Both then and today, it appears that the most effective evangelism is when people around us see something they don’t see elsewhere.

For 16 centuries it wasn’t necessary. Christianity was the default. You neede a reason to not be Christian. Today it’s like the first few centuries. You need a reason to be a Christian.

 

[Fervent]

I’ve thought a lot about the impact of this issue on public perceptions of Christianity. It’s a problem, but I don’t think it’s so critical. Liberal churches aren’t doing any better.

The real problem is that we aren’t presenting anything that would attract people unless you are already part of what I’ll call traditional culture. There are plenty of parts of the world, and the US, that still are. But it’s decreasing, and probably won’t come back (though there’s plenty of dystopian fiction that imagines a future where the right wing wins — I don’t know of any visions of the future where a right-wing win is credibly portrayed as a good thing). The problem isn’t so much that the world thinks Christians hate gays, as that the world doesn’t think Christianity has anything to offer. Attitudes to homosexuality are just part of a broader picture.

For that reason I’m always skeptical of these posts that say we’ve got to start treating gays better if we’re going to be persuasive. We do, but that’s only one part of the picture. And for the moment conservative Christianity is most attractive to people that are still part of traditional culture. Those people would probably prefer rejecting gays and trans. Going beyond that culture is a problem none of us, liberal or conservative, are doing very well. Liberal Christianity hasn't done very well at making a case that it's better than enlightened humanism.

Yeah, you're definitely right. It's also partially because the loudest apologetics are done with a distinct anti-intellectual flavor that makes people feel like they have to turn their brains off to accept Christ.

 

[hedrick]

Yeah, you're definitely right. It's also partially because the loudest apologetics are done with a distinct anti-intellectual flavor that makes people feel like they have to turn their brains off to accept Christ.

It’s not strictly speaking anti intellectual. Many conservatives are quite intellectual. They just don’t accept mainstream science and scholarship.

 

[Fervent]

It’s not strictly speaking anti intellectual. Many conservatives are quite intellectual. They just don’t accept mainstream science and scholarship.

I agree to an extent, but "gotcha" apologetics often stains any possibility of engaging in rational discussion across the lanes. Though, of course, the fault is not entirely on the side of Christians as a lot of outspoken anti-theists routinely goad and go after low hanging fruit.

 

[Clare73]

I used to believe that the only thing that would galvanize a person against God enough for them to be willing to forfeit their soul, was to fall in love with money. I now have come to find that there is another thing. That thing being the power of propaganda or false teaching . I had never realized just how powerful it was until about the last 10 years. I have tried to figure out how it entraps a person's psyche to the point of anti-God. I have so far found that it has something to do with stoking a person's pride to the point that they care nothing of the objective truth of a subject or the facts pointing to the truth. This may be why Christians still think the Bible teaches about homosexuality and still think that interventional evolution was not applied to creation.
And so many wonder why churches are dying out.

You don't think Romans 1:26-27 are pretty clear?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

You don't think Romans 1:26-27 are pretty clear?

What do you think it means?

 

[Clare73]

What do you think it means?

It means what it states. What does it state?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

It means what it states. What does it state?

What do you think it means?

 

[Clare73]

What do you think it means?

It states the immorality of homosexual sex, a forsaking of the right moral path.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

It states the immorality of homosexual sex.

that's your answer?? nothing else. ??

 

[Clare73]

It states the immorality of homosexual sex, a forsaking of the right moral path.

that's your answer?? nothing else. ??

That's what it states, do you want me to make up something else?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

That's what it states, do you want me to make up something?

I think you're being evasive.

I think you're trying to be clever and difficult instead of forthright.

 

[Clare73]

I think you're being evasive.

I don't think so . . . would you rather I added to the text?

I can elaborate on the point if you like. Homosexual sex is described as
lust, impurity, dishonoring the body, dishonorable passions, exchanging natural relations for unnatural, men giving up natual relations with women, consumed with passion for one another, committing shameful acts with men and receiving within themselves the penalty for their erroneous moral path.

All of it being God's judgment on their refusal to acknowledge, glorify and thank God for his earthly provision.

That's the best I can do.
You can do better?

 

[Clare73]

.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

I don;'think so . . . would you rather I added to the text?

I'm over it.

I don't think I'll be getting a sincere, full and complete, honest answer from you about what you think and why you think it.

 

[Clare73]

I'm over it.

I don't think I'll be getting a sincere, full and complete, honest answer from you about
what you think and why you think it.

And you know this, how?

I'm not getting it. .what more do you want me to say? Is the Scripture not enough for you?
Is there a problem with my thinking what Scripture thinks?

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

You don't think Romans 1:26-27 are pretty clear?

What do you think it means?

It means what it states. What does it state?

What do you think it means?

It states the immorality of homosexual sex

that's your answer?? nothing else. ??

That's what it states, do you want me to make up something else?

I think you're being evasive.

I think you're trying to be clever and difficult instead of forthright.

I don't think so . . . would you rather I added to the text?

This has been difficult and I haven't much to show for the work.

 

[Clare73]

It means what it states. What does it state?

I can elaborate on the point if you like. Homosexual sex is described as
lust, impurity, dishonoring the body, dishonorable passions, exchanging natural relations for unnatural, men giving up natual relations with women, consumed with passion for one another, committing shameful acts with men and receiving within themselves the penalty for their erroneous moral path.

All of it being God's judgment on their refusal to acknowledge, glorify and thank God for his earthly provision.

That's the best I can do.
You can do better?

This has been difficult and I haven't much to show for the work.

You've lost me. . .I have no idea what you mean.

However, noting that you did not answer my question above, it appears to me you are the one not being clear.

 

[Confused-by-christianity]

You've lost me. . .I have no idea what you mean.

However, noting that you did not answer my question above, it appears to me you are the one not being clear.

As I say - I'm over it.